Ok, sorry for the delay.
Some of this stuff I don't like to talk about, but since everyone else is playing, I might as well too.
PS,
Don, don't think badly of me for correcting some of these statements, I still consider you THE MAN. :thumbsup
I have a DP fiberglass facemask and it has that taller mounting ring, that's why I was wondering if they were related. I've seen a few DP ones and they all look like the tour mounting system.
Yes the DP helmet has the same tall mount ring as the promo helmets.
If I recall correctly, Steve Sansweet's promo Vader helmet is what was used as the basis for this piece. (I don't know if he realizes his helmet is a promo version or not).
What do you mean by re-worked for ESB? Just that the chin vent was cut out a bit and a mounting ring added? Because otherwise the ESB masks are nearly identical to ANH. The helmet (dome) was modified very slightly.
ALL the helmets made for ESB came from a mold taken directly off the screen used ANH.
The faceplates and domes were individually modified for conversion into what we see in ESB. The ESB helmets were refurbished for use in ROTJ.
No brand new helmets were created for ROTJ.
The conversion from the ANH style base helmet includes the following mods.
These mods were performed individually on each helmet for ESB.
- Cutting out the larger size chin vent. Since they are all individually cut, they all vary slightly in size.
- Adding the found part flange to the top of the facemask, then hand bondo-ing the gap in the front. Real individual screws are added into the flange to better register with the corresponding ring inside the dome.
- Removal of the widows peak.
- The sanding down of the widows peak on the dome strip (where the Y-crease is). This is done individually and is the cause of why there is variation from dome to dome in this area. Some of the Y-creases are more prominent, others have been completely sanded away and filled in.
That would be very interesting if it indeed was the source for the ROTJ masks/helmets, thereby discounting the idea that the ROTJ helmets were just reused ESB helmets.
No, no, no, no, no.
The ROTJ helmets are the refurbished ESB helmets.
I believe the helmet mold in the archives (the one that produces the other set of base helmets) came about like this.
A base facemask & helmet casting from the UK mold (that spawned all the screen used ESB helmets and was made from the original ANH helmet) was sent to the US and modified (tabs removed) then remolded for the purpose of creating some of the early promo costumes in the US.
Now mind you. Anyone from the production crew who happened to score one of the base helmets from either the UK mold, or the US promo mold would be able to recast it and introduce new authentic castings into the public domain and no one would be able to tell the difference. If you think you can, you are fooling yourself. All that can be determined is whether it's lineage came from the first gen ANH mold in the UK, or the second gen mold in the US (the one for promo purposes).
Thomas your SL helmet comes from that mold.
I'll point out that the ESB masks at least do not come from that same ANH mold you refer to, but rather another mold or casting they had in the UK at the time.
That is correct.
There are a number of reasons why this is apparent but you'll recall the ANH mold you used didn't have mounting tabs on the top of the mask, whereas the masks created for ESB did. Both came from the original ANH mask (or the whole helmet) but it was molded more than once.
Not all the masks had remnants of the mounting tabs remaining. You have to grind away a portion of the tabs to fit the flange on correctly. Sometimes the production team left the remnants on, sometimes they were completely removed before adding the ring. Of the examples I've seen, it's about half one way and half the other.
Again, there's no doubt that a new mold was made, as the ESB Vader has its mount molded in, whereas the ANH model doesn't have anything on top.
Yes a new mold was made for ESB (see above). But the mount was not molded in for the ESB helmets. It was an off the shelf found part (flange) that was individually applied to each base casting.
I'd be surprised if they made yet another mold/set for ROJ...However, I have been wrong...
You are right, they didn't make another new mold specifically for the ROTJ production because they just refurbished the ESB's.
This list you made is right on with the exception of a couple minor things.
I highlighted my changes in blue.
ANH (has a little clippy-thing that holds the helmet on, sculpted by Brian Muir) The screen used ANH had three plastic tabs affixed to the top of the facemask, and three corresponding tabs within the dome. They would literally pop/lock into one another sort of like if legos and velcro had a baby.
ESB/ROJ (re-molded with the Ring Mount inclusive, and Velcro on the forehead to help hold the helmet down) Yes, but the flanges were separate pieces affixed to each individual helmet. These were never part of the physical fiberglass castings.
ILM APPEARANCE (The ones in the photos in this thread, with a tall Ring mount and forehead Velcro) Exactly. None of the screen used helmets utilized this attachment method.
1995 APPEARANCE (Similar to the above)
The ANH Vader is in the same condition in the archives now as it was when I started there...somewhat beat up, and doesn't look like it was ever restored, unlike some of the other masks.
I've seen this helmet you're referring to but I don't believe it is THE screen used ANH. I think that the original ANH helmet and armor was repainted and converted for ESB.
