Origins of the ROTJ Vader helmets: JY thread continuation

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Wir sagen normal Dampfplauderer...ich frage mich eigentlich womit man so ein Verhalten vergleichen kann.

Vll. mit einem Tumor...der existiert auch, wird immer größer aber entzieht dem gesamten Körper eigentlich nur die Ressourcen und erzeugt keine.

Sry Mod's for not using proper language.

I'd say if you are going to be insulting, do it so we can all understand it. If I had this translated correctly, you are saying that GINO is a resource draining tumor who gives nothing back to the hobby.

I have taken MUCH flack for defending GINO in the past, but when you mount such a cowardly attack as to do it in another language, that is pretty bold and WRONG.

This was all discussed, ad nauseam, some 30 pages ago. The points that were made were confirmed by someone with access, access that no one else on this board has.

 

[CSMacLaren]

Better evidence has never been presented to someone about these helmets. I'm not suprised it doesn't enlighten some folks. Not everyone is the self proclaimed expert they think they are. Well done Sithlord and CSMaclaren!!!!

Dave

Don't forget Darth Karo.

Having had the privilege of handling accurate castings, I am not so easily dissuaded by statements that you can't trust your own eyes when analyzing screen caps and photos.

There are some people that despite looking at not only screenshots but photos of the actual screen used prop, they will not believe you. It's an unfortunate byproduct of training your eye with a non-optimal baselines for too long.

I don't understand why people are being discouraged from looking at the Den thread for themselves, especially when photos of a real Lucasfilm ROTJ mask is being discussed. Surely there is no harm learning from the real thing....

 

[skynet]

I'd say if you are going to be insulting, do it so we can all understand it. If I had this translated correctly, you are saying that GINO is a resource draining tumor who gives nothing back to the hobby.

I have taken MUCH flack for defending GINO in the past, but when you mount such a cowardly attack as to do it in another language, that is pretty bold and WRONG.

This was all discussed, ad nauseam, some 30 pages ago. The points that were made were confirmed by someone with access, access that no one else on this board has.

I don't think that this is unsulting, at least there is a little difference between saying that someone behaves in a certain manner and to simply toss around the F word (which I didn't do).

Also it was meant as a reply to someone who is also a german native speaker.

I don't speak spanish and I don't want to count the posts here on this very board which were written in spanish.

I (as you see) don't understand the whole thing anymore so for peace I'm out of here.

BTW can you please point me to the page where this whole thing is "solved"? I haven't found it...

 

[GINO]

Surely there is no harm learning from the real thing....

No, but there is harm in mislabeling something.
Mark my words, but I would not be surprised to see if somehow this helmet is being bolstered up so that it can be later cashed in on in one form or another.


.

 

[CSMacLaren]

No, but there is harm in mislabeling something.
Mark my words, but I would not be surprised to see if somehow this helmet is being bolstered up so that it can be later cashed in on in one form or another.


.

Hold up there. Are you referring to Brian Muir's ROTJ?

I wasn't talking about Brian's helmet at all.

 

[CSMacLaren]

I'd say if you are going to be insulting, do it so we can all understand it.

I'll do it!

Yousa bantha poodu. :lol

 

[GINO]

Yes I was referring to Brian's casting.

.

 

[CSMacLaren]

Yes I was referring to Brian's casting.

.

Thanks for the clarification. Since I wasn't referring to Brian's casting at all, would you care to retract the statement you made about me "mislabeling"?

Thank you kindly.

 

[GINO]

Wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I'll do it!

Yousa bantha poodu. :lol

Mac, this was not directed at me now, was it?

 

[CSMacLaren]

Mac, this was not directed at me now, was it?

Wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Good enough for me.

 

[JoeR]

wow, can´t believe this statement :lol

Just ignore him and continue

Exactly.

On one hand we have the creator of Vader, a respected industry professional, who has posted proof, in the form of a casting, and is still in contact with the guy who worked on Jedi. Brian also has no agenda and no need to feel superior to others.

On the other Gino, who will downright lie and discredit replicas that he does not posess in order to bolster the credibility of his own collection. Point in case Gino's GH ANH dome, how on earth is this the most accurate ANH replica. :rolleyes Or the SL, funny how any replica that he doesn't own is automatically inferior!

Joe

 

[ave4uevoli]

Y'know = for someone who only knows the basics about vader helmets I must say this thread is 1) full of really good information or 2) is so inconsistent from post to post that you can't tell what's right or wrong anymore.

New quote from Brian regarding his Jedi helmet posted on the Prop Den, "The old 'battered' helmet came from the mould that was used on ROTJ to make the 2 -3 screen used helmets."

Joe

Old battered helmet that came from a mold that was used on ROTJ to make teh 2-3 screen used helmets...... wait... but back on page 13-23 (roughly) of this thread don bies and Gino and many others (nearly all others) seemingly came to an agreement that there were no molds made for ROTJ and they were all just reworked ESB helmets that originally came from the ANH molds. So what molds could brian be talking about? Did I miss something? Or are you basing this argument, which I thought was resolved back on page 23 (ish) based on pictures and screencaps and photo comparisons which are useless unless you know exactly how to account for lens distortion.

There have been several posts throughout this forum, some from Mike Verta, and others that show how One helmet can look completely different if it's filmed with different lenses. You can't just take two pictures, resize them to roughly the same dimensions and compare them.... right?

So Sithlord, when you post these pictures of these screencaps and your comparisons are you taking this into account before you start drawing those lines of comparison? (i feel very confused about this)

Just want to go on record that I respectfully disagree.

.

Gino - is the reason why you're not explaining yourself because you already explained all you can in this thread already and people have a short memory? Or because I'm completely missing the issues altogether whereby I'll have to go back and reread this thread in its' entirety.

Thanks for anyone who can help someone with just a basic knowledge of vader helmets.

 

[GINO]

Gino - is the reason why you're not explaining yourself because you already explained all you can in this thread already and people have a short memory? Or because I'm completely missing the issues altogether whereby I'll have to go back and reread this thread in its' entirety.

Nope, I think you got it right on the first try.
But yes, there's nothing really more to say that already hasn't been said before. And it's pointless to slam your head against a wall when there are those who will never be convinced by anything.

No new helmet molds made for ROTJ (no ROTJ specific mold, period).
Could Brian's friend have actually made the casting during ROTJ, sure but there were/are a lot of these types of castings (and castings of castings) floating about during those times with people who worked on the production and had access to different molds. That does not make it an actual production casting, and it certainly does not make it ROTJ specific.
It's just incorrect information to say that there was anything specifically molded for the ROTJ production (in regards to vader) with the exception of the newly created chestbox. Which of course they still used the hero ESB chestbox on screen but it was refurbished along with everything else.

.

 

[defstartrooper]

With respect this is how i read things.

The confusion here started with the mounting system shown in the LFL group helmet picture, people were of the belief these helmets were production pieces and that the ROTJ had the taller mounting ring on the mask, these have since been proven not to be ROTJ production helmets in this photo but tour pieces, that's a completely different subject but that was the subject Don made his statements about, that those helmets in that picture are post production tour made pieces.
That was the point that Don agreed with, he did not agree or disagree that new molds were made for ROTJ, or that all the ROTJ production used helmets were refurbished ESB.
Looks like he got fed up with the bickering so we'll not likely get his opinion on the actual ROTJ helmets and whether they are all refurbs or not.
So far i haven't seen any evidence to conclusively say all the ROTJ helmets were refurbished ESB other than some at least have the same type of mounting system, that doesn't prove all the ROTJ production helmets are refurbs, it might make you lean toward them being refurbs but it's hardly proof.

 

[SithLord]

No, but there is harm in mislabeling something.
Mark my words, but I would not be surprised to see if somehow this helmet is being bolstered up so that it can be later cashed in on in one form or another.


.

This is Brian Muir you are talking about.

 

[GINO]

This is Brian Muir you are talking about.

If I recall correctly, you said the exact same thing about Andrew Ainsworth.

Besides, tell me I'm wrong to say that Brian has a run of these helmets planned.


.

 

[SithLord]

Old battered helmet that came from a mold that was used on ROTJ to make teh 2-3 screen used helmets...... wait... but back on page 13-23 (roughly) of this thread don bies and Gino and many others (nearly all others) seemingly came to an agreement that there were no molds made for ROTJ and they were all just reworked ESB helmets that originally came from the ANH molds.

Quote exactly where Don Bies states this.

Who agrees with Gino? I don't see anyone here with any evidence to show that ALL of the ROTJ helmets are reworked original ESB. That first debate was about the photo showing the tour helmets. Gino was right about that. But not about the the claim that ALL the ROTJ helmets came from ESB.

 

[SithLord]

If I recall correctly, you said the exact same thing about Andrew Ainsworth.

Besides, tell me I'm wrong to say that Brian has a run of these helmets planned.


.

Ya, right. Why is it that you always resort to using Andrew Ainsworth in an argument when you are clearly at fault about something?

What do you know? What business is it of yours anyway? Who knows what Brian has planned? Why even bring it up? You bring it up as if to imply something. Well? What is your opinion if he did? What do you do with your own TK helmets?

All you know how to do is show complete disrespect for others when they are not on your side.