Origins of the ROTJ Vader helmets: JY thread continuation

[SithLord]

No, the perspex is just the neck.
The lip was sanded/filled to better register with the horizontal mating line.

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I don't see any filling, just sanding.

 

[SithLord]

Thomas,

Go back a few pages to the "worm" comparison I did. May I suggest you use circles to highlight details instead of red lines? The red squiggly lines you've used in the past are visually distracting. Those with an untrained eye for details lose interest and mock anything relevant you might have to say.

Thanks for the suggestion. Circles are fine but occasionally I need to use a line that indicates a profile edge which can be longer than what could reasonably be encompassed by a circle. Plus sometimes I need to show how an edge deviates from the norm, you cannot do that with a simple circle. And a bracket which delineates an object while keeping out in the open I find is clearer. I draw them quickly so am not sure why people take issue with the fact that they are not perfect lines.

I don't see how these are from the same mold...

You want me to circle these? What do they show? Curvature differences. Lines highlight that effectively.

Arrows indicate exact points of reference.

Lines exemplify deviations in edge profiles.

Circles would be useless in this case...

I need to show relative width here, not just a feature...

But thanks anyway for the suggestion.....

 

[SithLord]

Oh, I rolled my eyes at him watermarking watermarked images too, but you know what? They are not my images to comment on. You do not know if any discussion went on behind the scenes, so you just assume he had no permission...after the first image of Vadermania's, that is. Your assumption could be right on, but haven't other users used those images too? GINO is a big boy, and does not me to defend him.

Well that's the point, I do know.

There is still some kind of imperfection in the spot you circled, at least to my eyes. So, perhaps the "worm" was sanded out of there. That is just a supposition on my part.

I agree, add some paint and voila, you get a worm....

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Mac, any of these things which "point out" or "highlight" the areas you see are just leading. What is a "trained eye" anyway? I mean seriously, Thomas and I both saw the same thing you circled as still having a flaw there, albeit smaller, but you completely missed the "worm" closer to the nose.

Leave the pics be and ask the viewers to spot the differences.

 

[CSMacLaren]

Here is a re-analysis of Thomas' rim comparison. As you will note, the red freehand squiggly lines are his.

If you examine the photo very carefully, you will notice that the rim has an upper boundary and a lower boundary. The lower boundary (which I've outlined in magenta) is brighter, and the eye locks onto that. If you were to observe the upper surface of the dome frown, there is a different coloration which I've highlighted in green. They are roughly parallel.

This is an example of what the red squiggly lines don't really tell you.

Next, I will move the green line over to the other photo without resizing. Some rotation is necessary. I've added some transparency so you can see the overlay.

The green line from the ESB dome's rim seems to overlay nicely on the ROTJ stunt.

The red squiggly lines haven't helped here, and the re-analysis done in this post would appear to contradict SithLord's observations.

What does strike me as odd is that nobody's pointed out the difference in the mid strip design between ESB and ROTJ. Perhaps that's not important to anyone, but it's a huge style difference to me. Just do a cross sectional analysis of the shape - the ROTJ is more trapezoid and more pronounced than that of domes of the two preceding films.

 

[rocketeer25]

OK, after several requests from members and a discussion among the staff, we've decided to re-open this thread. I've pulled over 50 posts off the back end of this thread that had nothing to do with the discussion of the Vader helmet.

Please keep the discussion about the helmet and not about each other. If we need to lock it again, it'll be for good. Also, a couple of you guys who were going at it have earned some infraction points in the past. It would be a terrible thing for you to earn a ban because you couldn't hold a civil discussion. Just sayin'...

This is a great thread for Vader nuts. It always amazes me how much the membership knows about this stuff. Of course, it helps to have some members who have the inside scoop!

Anyway, enough of that... chat away!

 

[Trap Joe]

very cool Rocketeer25. Thank you!!!

 

[SithLord]

Thanks to the mods for reopening the thread.

In case people didn't notice, the thread was continued on The Prop Den....so it might help to consult there to get up to speed...

http://thepropden.aokforums.com/1-vt2649.html

As to how it goes here I guess we will see....

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

People are not going to want to sign up on the Den just to follow the thread. What got me over there though were the images with the eyebrows. The RotJ eyebrows have a bit of a different shape than the ESB brows. Now, I would find it VERY odd to add material to the brows. Makes sense to take away, shaping them, than to add to them to "thin" them out.

Something is definitely different. Thanks to KAro on the Den for the comparison shots.

Some speculate that there is paint up along the ridges of the brows to make them appear thinner, but no shots CLEARLY show that.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I have to take back what I said after a few closeup comps were shown on the Prop Den. The RotJ reveal and the RotJ screen used BOTH have thick brows. There is a clear paint overlap on the RotJ reveal. It isn't so clear on the screen used, but Mac pointed it out and you can see it...

This stuff is so confusing sometimes just going by the photos that we have. I've asked some of the guys over there to share the comparison shots here. I hope they do, it would be nice to bring it back here.

 

[JoeR]

New quote from Brian regarding his Jedi helmet posted on the Prop Den, "The old 'battered' helmet came from the mould that was used on ROTJ to make the 2 -3 screen used helmets."

Joe

 

[GINO]

Just want to go on record that I respectfully disagree.

.

 

[nightrider]

That's a great thread. It's awesome seeing Brian restore a helmet he sculpted so many years ago.:thumbsup

 

[skynet]

Just want to go on record that I respectfully disagree.

Just plain and simple: Why?

I mean it's becoming so...strange. To clarify that, this isn't a discussion about one of your helmets Gino (and I understand that when it comes to your helmets the info is quite...under lock and key and I "respect" that).

So: No need to reveal any of your secret sources because the item which is in discussion is not in your posession.

Again plain and simple:

Why do you disagree? I mean there has to be more than "I know that because I've had many helmets in my hands".

This thread is going on and on with people taking their time, making comparison shots, drawings, analysis...and all you say is you disagree but you don't give an explenation from which at least I think:

Yes, this is reasonable or sounds logically.

Don't take that as an offense.

 

[GINO]

Honestly it's not worth going into.
People who trust what I have to say can approach from that angle.
People who don't wouldn't no matter what anyway.


.

 

[vaderdarth]

Better evidence has never been presented to someone about these helmets. I'm not suprised it doesn't enlighten some folks. Not everyone is the self proclaimed expert they think they are. Well done Sithlord and CSMaclaren!!!!

Dave

 

[Trap Joe]

Honestly it's not worth going into.
People who trust what I have to say can approach from that angle.
People who don't wouldn't no matter what anyway.


.

wow, can´t believe this statement :lol

Just ignore him and continue

 

[skynet]

Honestly it's not worth going into.
People who trust what I have to say can approach from that angle.
People who don't wouldn't no matter what anyway.

So, what did this whole thread start? Wasn't it your comment on the helmet? At least it gave the spark.

I don't trust what you have because:

There are mostly staged pics of your helmets (or arranged, pictured in a set up enviroment for presentation). In what should I trust now?

There are comments from you like this one above. In what should I trust now?

Perhaps I am this way because I don't believe in god, the devil, witches or leprechauns.

BTW, what is the reason for setting up a prop board? In my opinion the essence of this forum is to collect information in a friendly manner, help others, proudly present the own work and have fun.

Information should be PROVIDED...and not drained where it's useful for someones own needs.

My conclusion: I am as clever regarding this helmet as before this thread started.

 

[skynet]

wow, can´t believe this statement :lol

Just ignore him and continue

Wir sagen normal Dampfplauderer...ich frage mich eigentlich womit man so ein Verhalten vergleichen kann.

Vll. mit einem Tumor...der existiert auch, wird immer größer aber entzieht dem gesamten Körper eigentlich nur die Ressourcen und erzeugt keine.

Sry Mod's for not using proper language.

 

[GINO]

Then don't believe me and be happy.
You can lead a horse to water and all that.

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