Origins of the ROTJ Vader helmets: JY thread continuation

[Brian Muir]

Nope, I think you got it right on the first try.
But yes, there's nothing really more to say that already hasn't been said before. And it's pointless to slam your head against a wall when there are those who will never be convinced by anything.

No new helmet molds made for ROTJ (no ROTJ specific mold, period).
Could Brian's friend have actually made the casting during ROTJ, sure but there were/are a lot of these types of castings (and castings of castings) floating about during those times with people who worked on the production and had access to different molds. That does not make it an actual production casting, and it certainly does not make it ROTJ specific.
It's just incorrect information to say that there was anything specifically molded for the ROTJ production (in regards to vader) with the exception of the newly created chestbox. Which of course they still used the hero ESB chestbox on screen but it was refurbished along with everything else.

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Gino, in an earlier post you state

There were no new fibreglass helmets made for ROTJ
They were all ESB refurbished

You are wrong - 2 or 3 helmets were cast specifically to be screen used and I know the person who cast them

You say that no new helmet molds were made specific to ROTJ - even if that is true the mold that the 2-3 ROTJ screen used helmets came from becomes a ROTJ mold

Brian

 

[GINO]

Again, I respectfully disagree.

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[Darth Niob]

Again, I respectfully disagree.

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You certainly must have good relationships to LFL to give such statements:rolleyes
I think there is really nobody who can tell more about the original helmets than Brian and the guys who made these casts. Unbelievable that you simply cannot accept the truth...just to put your casts into a better light. I know it must be very hard for you after all these years, after countless threads about your Vaders...that they are not what you think about they are. They are truly very nice but certainly not....in no way the most accurate out there...mainly because of your helmet/armor combi which is the best...but only from all the stuff which is usually available.

Sadly so many here are following your opinion because they only know your threads and not the threads about the "really" best out there.

 

[Brian Muir]

If I recall correctly, you said the exact same thing about Andrew Ainsworth..

I take exception to that remark!! Are you comparing me to Ainsworth?

 

[GINO]

Only in the fact that there are a lot of people who will take the word of someone connected to the films as golden much too easily.

I certainly hope that's the only parallel that will be able to be drawn in the future, but a lot of that depends on you.
I can say that the bolstering of this particular helmet followed by the decision to do a run of them is not what I would call a step in the right direction.

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[Darth Niob]

Only in the fact that there are a lot of people who will take the word of someone connected to the films as golden much too easily.

I certainly hope that's the only parallel that will be able to be drawn in the future, but a lot of that depends on you.
I can say that the bolstering of this particular helmet followed by the decision to do a run of them is not what I would call a step in the right direction.

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I see, but believing you in a blind way is certainly better:rolleyesOMG
Not a very hard decision to believe someone from the production team more than someone who is the selfcalled Vader god and was so wrong with his statements in the past.

 

[SithLord]

Sadly so many here are following your opinion because they only know your threads and not the threads about the "really" best out there.

Gino and I once had a head-to-head ANH Vader comparison thread which went reasonably well. I think there should be another thread like that in which Gino puts his Vader or Vaders up against everyone elses. No one here is permitted to comment in any critical fashion, constructive or otherwise, in showoff threads which limits discussion significantly. So all we see are show-off threads with no substance. No discussion.

 

[Darth Niob]

And a step in the wrong direction is funny. You mean like all your promoting bull**** threads about the most accurate trooper helmet out there?

 

[GINO]

Not a very hard decision to believe someone from the production team more than someone who is the selfcalled Vader god and was so wrong with his statements in the past.

If you only knew how many times I've heard that before.

PS, Vader god?? Really?


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[Darth Niob]

Gino and I once had a head-to-head ANH Vader comparison thread which went reasonably well. I think there should be another thread like that in which Gino puts his Vader or Vaders up against everyone elses. No one here is permitted to comment in any critical fashion, constructive or otherwise, in showoff threads which limits discussion significantly. So all we see are show-off threads with no substance. No discussion.

I think we both mean the same person. I would love to see that comparison Thomas....i can tell you that. Although i doubt all the blind followers will accept the truth...even if they should see it with their own eyes.

 

[Darth Niob]

If you only knew how many times I've heard that before.

PS, Vader god?? Really?


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I never doubt that because its the truth.
And certainly not really:lol

 

[SithLord]

Only in the fact that there are a lot of people who will take the word of someone connected to the films as golden much too easily.

I certainly hope that's the only parallel that will be able to be drawn in the future, but a lot of that depends on you.
I can say that the bolstering of this particular helmet followed by the decision to do a run of them is not what I would call a step in the right direction.

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You are still questioning Brian's knowledge and on top of that questioning his motives for showing an original ROTJ Vader helmet which you say isn't original. Essentially you are saying that Brian is not telling the truth, just as you did with Andrew Ainsworth, for the sole reason of discounting anyone else's castings as being lesser than your own.

 

[CSMacLaren]

Only in the fact that there are a lot of people who will take the word of someone connected to the films as golden much too easily.

And proof of this that Brian Muir is wrong and your word is golden over his... is your fanmade displays?

What of what you said of your own ANH mask? "The provenance is golden."

SithLord was right... all this time you claimed not to sell Vader helmets and yet you sold stormtrooper helmets (and even Vader chestboxes) at high prices. And you're making financial smears on Brian Muir?

 

[GINO]

Never said he was not telling the truth. Just that he has been given incorrect information.

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[CSMacLaren]

Never said he was not telling the truth. Just that he has been given incorrect information.

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Right... and mislabeling things and saying incorrect information for potential financial gain.

 

[Darth Niob]

Never said he was not telling the truth. Just that he has been given incorrect information.

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You mean like you do since years about your fanmade Vaders?

 

[GINO]

I believe Brian's is basing his assumptions on his friend who is clearly mistaken about what he had.
If you aren't ready to accept that is extremely common amongst production people, then I don't know what else to tell you.


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[GINO]

BTW, let's be clear about what Brian's role in Vader was exactly.

He took the McQuarrie concept sketches and sculpted the faceplate, dome, chest armor, and shins that we all have come to know.
For that, I (and millions of others) are eternally grateful. That is a HUGE distinction and one that I have ample respect for.


But that is where Brian's part in the creation of Vader ended.


From that point, the clay sculpts were turned into plaster positives, that someone else refined. Then those plaster positives were molded by someone else which birthed the fiberglass helmet and armor casts, and the vac formed shins.

Then, it was turned over to the art department for finishing, painting, and detailing.


So does that make Brian an expert on all things Vader. In my opinion not at all.
To be more clear, his involvement and knowledge stops at the initial sculpting point.
To claim any more than that in my opinion is over reaching one's boundaries.

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[SithLord]

I believe Brian's is basing his assumptions on his friend who is clearly mistaken about what he had.
If you aren't ready to accept that is extremely common amongst production people, then I don't know what else to tell you.


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No, you automatically paint someone as misrepresenting their props if it conflicts with your own ideas. It has nothing to do with what crew members might remember or not. Brian has been in the industry for, what, 33 years now? You don't know his friend, but you question his friend's information as being accurate. All we have is Brian's word that his friend is who he says he is. But you question that automatically. There is nothing wrong with skepticism, but you say he is misinformed with no evidence whatsoever...you offer no reason for that skepticism apart from the example of Andrew Ainsworth.

 

[SithLord]

BTW, let's be clear about what Brian's role in Vader was exactly.

He took the McQuarrie concept sketches and sculpted the faceplate, dome, chest armor, and shins that we all have come to know.
For that, I (and millions of others) are eternally grateful. That is a HUGE distinction and one that I have ample respect for.


But that is where Brian's part in the creation of Vader ended.


From that point, the clay sculpts were turned into plaster positives, that someone else refined. Then those plaster positives were molded by someone else which birthed the fiberglass helmet and armor casts, and the vac formed shins.

Then, it was turned over to the art department for finishing, painting, and detailing.


So does that make Brian an expert on all things Vader. In my opinion not at all.
To be more clear, his involvement and knowledge stops at the initial sculpting point.
To claim any more than that in my opinion is over reaching one's boundaries.

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This is the most arrogant nonsense I have yet to read on the RPF.