Obi-Wan Saber discussion thread

[SithLord]

In respect of Zenkai's thread I'm moving discussion of my stunt saber replica to a new thread. Zenkai was very patient about the disgression...thanks.

The point of this thread is to discuss the possibility of there being another hero Obi-wan saber that didn't see obvious screen time. Alternatively the saber I have is from a replica source.


Here's the last post I made in that thread:



If you look at the rear edge of the MR vs mine where the red bracket is....it's flat and quite thick whereas on mine it has a very thin rim. I don't know what to make of the rear of the pommel cubes except that they are sharper than the MR on their edges. I think I can see sanded down filler material on the back face of the pommels where holes might have been but it is hard to say...definitely three of the six pommels on the front face have distinct hole remnants of the same size and position/centering.

 

[lonepigeon]

Here's a comparison of the hole where the Covertec would go on your saber and the MR AOTC:

MR:

And my last post out of the other thread discussing the depth of the grip cutout:

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Oct 22 2006, 03:05 AM) [snapback]1342545[/snapback]</div>

I'm not sure now what you mean by deeper grips? They are the same on mine as the one in the DVD footage.
[/b]

Actually yours does not match the one on the DVD or the TPM Hero or stunts. Your grip cutout in the aluminum sleeve is too shallow like the MR AOTC.
Your photo here proved it:

At this orientation a real/correct Obi-Wan saber would be showing black grip area whereas the MR and yours do not. The grip cutout is past the halfway point of the tube on a correct saber so that you could never see all silver in this section of the body from any rotation.
Maybe Dan can provide a picture of his or Zenkai can turn his CAD model to this orientation.
Edit - Adding Zenkai's model for comparison:

That coupled with the hole under the Covertec being the right diameter and having the rings really leads me to believe this was cast from an MR AOTC. I can't explain the oval thing, but I don't know what it could possibly be on a real saber either- seems like a strange casting anamoly.

 

[Crimsonnaire]

At this point, I think it's near useless to point out any mismatching details with the MR Obi AOTC in defense of this stunt having been cast off a real hero because it already has overwhelming matches with the MR. If the caster used an MR Obi AOTC, he would've surely taken steps to eliminate and/or obscure obvious details. The objective, now, should be to examine every piece of reference to try to determine whether there is another hero--or even stunt--that bears even the slightest discrepancy that's on Sithlord's.

So far, I haven't seen any screen-used hero or stunt that has the collective similarities that are on the MR Obi AOTC, which is what leads me to believe that MR's discprepancies are the result of prototyping errors. Whether these errors were intentional is another story. Concurrently, I acknowledge several references of this prop that I haven't been able to identify, such as the following two images:
[image]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/Imperious825/obiAOTC.jpg[/image]
[image]http://petridish.net/pics/21691/fact.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/Imperious825/obiwanEp31.jpg[/image]
If the saber in the second image is the EP1 hero, then it means that they resorted to using the Obi TPM hero for AOTC, leading to a hightened chance that that's the one and only hero available at the time of AOTC's production, which would leave no room for any stunt with Sithlord's proportions to be made. This, in turn, would also indicate a high chance that the hero that appears in the third image was produced around the time of ROTS's production, and not earlier.

A while back, I remember a popular rumor was that McGregor was given the EP1 hero to keep. Is this true? If so, then they would've had to create a second hero at some point in time.

 

[lonepigeon]

The only reason they didn't use the TPM Hero very much in AOTC was because of the weight.
Ewan preferred the lighter stunt sabers hanging from his belt so they made around a half dozen chromed resin ones.
I talk to Ty Teiger about it once.

LFL photographed one of the chrome sabers for archive purposes, which is the source of the chrome saber photo in the VD.
Ewan does have the regular TPM Hero in some AOTC promo shots.
I doubt they let Ewan keep the Hero.
Like the did for Neeson they probably let him keep a stunt.

I agree the reference is too overwhelming that this saber appears to be cast from an MR AOTC.
I would need to see hard proof of a real saber with such a shallow grip cutout to even consider that it might be real.

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(Imperious825 @ Oct 22 2006, 03:53 AM) [snapback]1342623[/snapback]</div>

Concurrently, I acknowledge several references of this prop that I haven't been able to identify, such as the following two images:
[image]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/Imperious825/obiAOTC.jpg[/image]

Which DVD/section is this scene from...I'm having trouble finding it.

[image]http://petridish.net/pics/21691/fact.jpg[/image]

Could I get a high res scan of this for comparisons?

[image]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/Imperious825/obiwanEp31.jpg[/image]

If the saber in the second image is the EP1 hero, then it means that they resorted to using the Obi TPM hero for AOTC, leading to a hightened chance that that's the one and only hero available at the time of AOTC's production, which would leave no room for any stunt with Sithlord's proportions to be made. This, in turn, would also indicate a high chance that the hero that appears in the third image was produced around the time of ROTS's production, and not earlier.

A while back, I remember a popular rumor was that McGregor was given the EP1 hero to keep. Is this true? If so, then they would've had to create a second hero at some point in time.
[/b]

I don't think Ewan got to keep his hero saber, however Samuel Jackson did get to keep his I believe.

I have other sabers from the same source and they are different in many ways from the respective MR versions and I'd be happy to go through them here. I also have a production Obi-wan saber mold and it is for the same kind of saber as the replica I have shown here. That saber pictured above at the exhibit has several major differences from both the MR and my own.

Also, here are two different stunt Obi-wans in the same room, side-by-side. The TPM version, and the AOTC version.

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 22 2006, 01:55 AM) [snapback]1342601[/snapback]</div>

That coupled with the hole under the Covertec being the right diameter and having the rings really leads me to believe this was cast from an MR AOTC. I can't explain the oval thing, but I don't know what it could possibly be on a real saber either- seems like a strange casting anamoly.
[/b]

Could I get from you a caliper measured inner diameter of that hole? I'll get one of the hole in my saber...

 

[SithLord]

EDIT: Some more stuff I'm trying to sift through...I think my eyes are getting buggy :confused Let me know what you guys think of these sabers...

Notice the edge profile here;

A study of the hero saber Ewan was showing off... (WARNING...HUGE FILE)

Hero saber in AOTC

The rolling stunt saber...kinda like mine? (WARNING...BIG FILE)

Obi vs Jango saber

Whew.

 

[Gytheran]

Yep, that's an Obi Wan lightsaber...

 

[lonepigeon]

The one in Ewan's hand looks like the TPM Hero to me. I don't see any dimple in the emitter face like Imperious mentioned. The emitter plate looks dark like steel just like the TPM Hero.

That rolling stunt still looks like it has the standard depth grip cutout.

What makes you say these are two different stunts?
The TPM and AOTC stunts are both cast from the TPM Hero, but from different molds.

 

[Primrodo]

Close up of the magazine:

TPM/AOTC Hero?

 

[lonepigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>(Primrodo @ Oct 23 2006, 04:07 AM) [snapback]1343137[/snapback]</div>

TPM/AOTC Hero?
[/b]

Yep.

 

[Crimsonnaire]

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 22 2006, 10:27 PM) [snapback]1343110[/snapback]</div>

The one in Ewan's hand looks like the TPM Hero to me. I don't see any dimple in the emitter face like Imperious mentioned. The emitter plate looks dark like steel just like the TPM Hero.
[/b]

The only cause needed for this would be the absense of the clip showing the saber being held at the appropriate angle for proper light reflection:
[image]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/Imperious825/obiaotc2.jpg[/image]

 

[lonepigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>(Imperious825 @ Oct 23 2006, 05:45 AM) [snapback]1343189[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 22 2006, 10:27 PM) [snapback]1343110[/snapback]

The one in Ewan's hand looks like the TPM Hero to me. I don't see any dimple in the emitter face like Imperious mentioned. The emitter plate looks dark like steel just like the TPM Hero.
[/b]

The only cause needed for this would be the absense of the clip showing the saber being held at the appropriate angle for proper light reflection:
[/b][/quote]

SithLord just posted very large pics of every possible angle from that video clip (which is making this thread SLOW as heck to load) and I see no dimple.

 

[Crimsonnaire]

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 23 2006, 01:03 AM) [snapback]1343198[/snapback]</div>

...and I see no dimple.
[/b]

If you look closely, you'll see that the center of the emitter plate is illuminated. This same illumination is visible in several of Sithlord's screencaps, but due to the large resolution, the obscurity makes it less apparent. I don't believe a fractional-millimeter groove is capable of such an outlining, do you...?

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 22 2006, 11:27 PM) [snapback]1343110[/snapback]</div>

The one in Ewan's hand looks like the TPM Hero to me. I don't see any dimple in the emitter face like Imperious mentioned. The emitter plate looks dark like steel just like the TPM Hero.

That rolling stunt still looks like it has the standard depth grip cutout.

What makes you say these are two different stunts?
The TPM and AOTC stunts are both cast from the TPM Hero, but from different molds.
[/b]

Here's the dimple...and that hero saber appears to have the same arrangement/spacing of the black ridges in the emmittor.

I'll make comparisons of my saber with the rolling one sometime...I rolled mine like the one in the sequence and it seemed pretty close.

They are two different stunts because of the different profiles of that large black knob on the end...the one with the six spokes (sorry my terminology is terrible ). The TPM has flatter sides to the profile, the AOTC has more rounded sides.



<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 23 2006, 12:57 AM) [snapback]1343166[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(Primrodo @ Oct 23 2006, 04:07 AM) [snapback]1343137[/snapback]

TPM/AOTC Hero?
[/b]

Yep.
[/b][/quote]


It's TPM....

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 23 2006, 02:03 AM) [snapback]1343198[/snapback]</div>

SithLord just posted very large pics of every possible angle from that video clip (which is making this thread SLOW as heck to load) and I see no dimple.
[/b]

Sorry about that. I put the images as links for the brave of heart.... :lol

 

[lonepigeon]

I don't really think that looks much like a dimple. I'll give you that's a highlight, but it could also be caused by the material change- the center rod and emitter washer are two pieces. They may be rusting at a different rate.

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Oct 23 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1343435[/snapback]</div>

I'll make comparisons of my saber with the rolling one sometime...I rolled mine like the one in the sequence and it seemed pretty close.
[/b]

The bottom two right frames in your composite of the rolling saber already show the grip cutout is deeper than yours.

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Oct 23 2006, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1343435[/snapback]</div>

They are two different stunts because of the different profiles of that large black knob on the end...the one with the six spokes (sorry my terminology is terrible ). The TPM has flatter sides to the profile, the AOTC has more rounded sides.
[/b]

I think you're grasping at straws if you think you see that in that photo.
The TPM an AOTC stunts are cast from the same saber with only minor differences in how they filled in the undercuts before molding.

I can understand the desire to validate the saber which I'm sure you paid good money for, but you need something better than extremely fuzzy screencaps and wild speculation in the face of the already ovewhelming evidence that it's cast from an MR.

Maybe they cast an MR for possible ROTS stunts?

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 23 2006, 01:36 PM) [snapback]1343446[/snapback]</div>

I think you're grasping at straws if you think you see that in that photo.
The TPM an AOTC stunts are cast from the same saber with only minor differences in how they filled in the undercuts before molding.

I can understand the desire to validate the saber which I'm sure you paid good money for, but you need something better than extremely fuzzy screencaps and wild speculation in the face of the already ovewhelming evidence that it's cast from an MR.

Maybe they cast an MR for possible ROTS stunts?
[/b]

I fail to see how you cannot see that these two sabers are different. Yet you can tell me that the rolling saber has the TPM grip?

I suppose it is possible they cast an MR for ROTS....what I need to do is make a casting from the production mold I have to see if it's the same or not, but from what I can see from the mold, it's the same as my replica casting.

I'm not trying to validate anything. I've shown my saber and said what it is. Like I said, I would be happy to compare my other sabers from the same source with any MR saber to prove my point.

And what wild speculation? This is an opportunity to learn more about the sabers. If you'd like to remain in your bubble of there being only one hero saber then fine. I don't know the answers, but this thread is intended to discuss the possibilities.

 

[lonepigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Oct 23 2006, 06:00 PM) [snapback]1343454[/snapback]</div>

I fail to see how you cannot see that these two sabers are different. Yet you can tell me that the rolling saber has the TPM grip?
[/b]

Because the grip is a very large and easy thing to spot on even those poor "rolling saber" screencaps. You need only look at the width of the silver area on that part of the body when the Covertec is showing.
I can see those sabers on the bench are painted different, but that's all that can be reasonably determined.

<div class='quotetop'>(SithLord @ Oct 23 2006, 06:00 PM) [snapback]1343454[/snapback]</div>

I suppose it is possible they cast an MR for ROTS....what I need to do is make a casting from the production mold I have to see if it's the same or not, but from what I can see from the mold, it's the same as my replica casting.

I'm not trying to validate anything. I've shown my saber and said what it is. Like I said, I would be happy to compare my other sabers from the same source with any MR saber to prove my point.

And what wild speculation? This is an opportunity to learn more about the sabers. If you'd like to remain in your bubble of there being only one hero saber then fine. I don't know the answers, but this thread is intended to discuss the possibilities.
[/b]

You're speculating from some extremely fuzzy screencaps. Just look at the green and red lines you scribbled to make some sort of point on that blurry pic of the two stunt sabers on a bench. The edges of the pommels on those sabers aren't even clear, but you're making declarations as to their differing shape.
I'm not in a bubble. I have far better reference than most people on this board, have firsthand experience with some of the sabers myself, have talked to Ty Teiger, and have another very reliable source who has handled all the real sabers we're discussing. Their conclusion was the same as mine - yours is cast from an MR AOTC.

From my POV you're desperately trying to prove your saber is real, if you're not then perhaps you're the one in the bubble.

I assume you have a Dooku and Windu from this same source?

 

[SithLord]

<div class='quotetop'>(lonepigeon @ Oct 23 2006, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1343463[/snapback]</div>

I assume you have a Dooku and Windu from this same source?
[/b]

Yes, I have a replica Dooku, an original Dooku, an original Mace Windu, an original Adi Gallia, a replica Qui-Gon, etc. Same source. The replicas are direct castings from originals.

 

[Chingon]

Wasn't there another member here who had resin castings from original Dooku, Obi, Qui, Mundi, Fisto, and Mace Ep2 sabers? I believe the Mace Ep2 saber even had some writing on it.

Sithlord are your sabers cast from these? If so, I think I still have pics that the seller had posted.