I know theres not 2 different Sabers, are there?
More details on the Vader ROTJ saber - Please archive
- Thread starter Brevin Din-Shay
- Start date
DARTH SABER
Master Member
OK, I think I might have not made myself quite clear on some of my theories, ...Just to expand a bit-
Im not saying that the bottom of this saber is ALL putty, what Im sayying is that the original Graflex bottom is still there but its covered with putty or epoxy...
Just wanted to clear that up...I got a few PMs from people who made it sound like I was saying there isnt a Graflex bottom just putty all the way through...
Im not saying that the bottom of this saber is ALL putty, what Im sayying is that the original Graflex bottom is still there but its covered with putty or epoxy...
Just wanted to clear that up...I got a few PMs from people who made it sound like I was saying there isnt a Graflex bottom just putty all the way through...
obi1kenny
Sr Member
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fried mon calamari wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
But, while I looking at the shots I noticed this
The SW Insider shot shows the control box with a perfectly flat control box/ switch, but in the MOM photos the surface has a cut or bevel toward the back.
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No way, this has to be an optical allusion, all the pics I have show this a having a flat top, minus the crapped on paint and nicks and dents. It looks liek someone took a hammer to it in your pics.
On a differnt note....
I also just came across a pic that is going to blow you away and shake up this thread, big time!
fried mon calamari wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
But, while I looking at the shots I noticed this
The SW Insider shot shows the control box with a perfectly flat control box/ switch, but in the MOM photos the surface has a cut or bevel toward the back.
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No way, this has to be an optical allusion, all the pics I have show this a having a flat top, minus the crapped on paint and nicks and dents. It looks liek someone took a hammer to it in your pics.
On a differnt note....
I also just came across a pic that is going to blow you away and shake up this thread, big time!
fried mon calamari
Well-Known Member
Well, that IS interesting.
Crap
That kind of throws a nice little kink in the graf base theory unless there was some serious modifications by the L slots.
I'm open to suggestions on this one!
This things going to stat looking like whiffle ball by the time I get all these new holes drilled in it!
Brevin Din-Shay
Sr Member
Absolutely stunning.
I'm shocked at the influx of new and very important info that has poured into this thread over the last few hours!
I'd love to give it a rundown, but I don't have time...getting ready for my new job that starts tomorrow.
I thought I'd mention this, though - someone contacted me with what he claims to be another breakthrough photo on the endcap!
Looks like this thread won't be archived tonight after all.
Edit: Bump - would be great to hear some discussion on the recently-revealed info!
I'm shocked at the influx of new and very important info that has poured into this thread over the last few hours!
I'd love to give it a rundown, but I don't have time...getting ready for my new job that starts tomorrow.
I thought I'd mention this, though - someone contacted me with what he claims to be another breakthrough photo on the endcap!
Looks like this thread won't be archived tonight after all.
Edit: Bump - would be great to hear some discussion on the recently-revealed info!
obi1kenny
Sr Member
KL:
That hole is visible in this pic you posted, from David(
) :
It is just filled with the same white crap that the charging port is filled with.
Here is another pic, check out the red arrows:
Also, I believe that the charging port on the opposite side that is filled with this white crap was not always like that, there are other pics that show it as a dark black area. I believe that there is one charging pin in each side. Even though the one side is filled over with crap in most of the pics I have, it is under there.
Just like these low-res pics from POSW, if I am correct Chris scanned these out of the SW Chronicles book, well the top pic and the bottom pic is from SW to Indy. Right? Either way this is pre-filled-with-white-crap.
That hole is visible in this pic you posted, from David(
It is just filled with the same white crap that the charging port is filled with.
Here is another pic, check out the red arrows:
Also, I believe that the charging port on the opposite side that is filled with this white crap was not always like that, there are other pics that show it as a dark black area. I believe that there is one charging pin in each side. Even though the one side is filled over with crap in most of the pics I have, it is under there.
Just like these low-res pics from POSW, if I am correct Chris scanned these out of the SW Chronicles book, well the top pic and the bottom pic is from SW to Indy. Right? Either way this is pre-filled-with-white-crap.
lonepigeon
Master Member
OK- first like I said earlier I only found ONE top "grip" screw hole. Can anyone show another???
I'm beginning to believe it's NOT a grip screw hole (too big, too low, and only one).
That little sliver of a possible second hole - I think it's a gap in the glue or something under the grip. That's why it only shows up at a certain angle and when the light hits the side edge of the grip.
The positions of the other holes appear slightly different in some photos depending on the point of view. Like all previous grips the back of them is not curved to fit the tube. This causes the sides of each grip to actually be slightly above the tube - so depending on the angle they can appear to cover more or less of the drilled holes near them.
Endcap-
Putty would NOT reflect at all neither would a white piece of paper. There's at least a few photos that show the reflection of the side of the Kobold piece.
Other surfaces can catch a glare, but NOT reflect. A glare would elongate or distort, a reflection will appear the same size as the object being reflected.
Killdozer has outlined the metal "disc" in several pics exacty as how I see it.
I do think the rivets would be enough to depress the middle of the disc. Yes they are off center, but they are pulling the Kobold bracket to the surface evenly. It's the pressure of the whole Kobold bracket that compresses the disc. Besides the uneven edge I also believe a hand cut disc because sheet metal would bend to the pressure like that.
The rivets are not filled down.
That is the type of rivet they used. If you look anywhere else that rivets were used you will always see that the tops are flat (Luke's belt, X-wing vest, Wampa cave saber etc...). I believe this is the difference between using simple pop rivets to a shop using stronger rivets and a more powerful riveting tool. You will also see the same type of rivets used on all the ROTJ guns too (which is why Bobadebt is currently searching for this type of rivet).
I don't buy the whole filled with resin theory.
There's way too many holes in this thing where all we see is black/hollow. You could also not rivet the D-ring to the bottom if it was solid/filled. There's also no way they would glue rivet heads on "for looks". The prop shop has never tried to keep any consistancy with details like fasteners (I could site several examples if needed).
I'm beginning to believe it's NOT a grip screw hole (too big, too low, and only one).
That little sliver of a possible second hole - I think it's a gap in the glue or something under the grip. That's why it only shows up at a certain angle and when the light hits the side edge of the grip.
The positions of the other holes appear slightly different in some photos depending on the point of view. Like all previous grips the back of them is not curved to fit the tube. This causes the sides of each grip to actually be slightly above the tube - so depending on the angle they can appear to cover more or less of the drilled holes near them.
Endcap-
Putty would NOT reflect at all neither would a white piece of paper. There's at least a few photos that show the reflection of the side of the Kobold piece.
Other surfaces can catch a glare, but NOT reflect. A glare would elongate or distort, a reflection will appear the same size as the object being reflected.
Killdozer has outlined the metal "disc" in several pics exacty as how I see it.
I do think the rivets would be enough to depress the middle of the disc. Yes they are off center, but they are pulling the Kobold bracket to the surface evenly. It's the pressure of the whole Kobold bracket that compresses the disc. Besides the uneven edge I also believe a hand cut disc because sheet metal would bend to the pressure like that.
The rivets are not filled down.
That is the type of rivet they used. If you look anywhere else that rivets were used you will always see that the tops are flat (Luke's belt, X-wing vest, Wampa cave saber etc...). I believe this is the difference between using simple pop rivets to a shop using stronger rivets and a more powerful riveting tool. You will also see the same type of rivets used on all the ROTJ guns too (which is why Bobadebt is currently searching for this type of rivet).
I don't buy the whole filled with resin theory.
There's way too many holes in this thing where all we see is black/hollow. You could also not rivet the D-ring to the bottom if it was solid/filled. There's also no way they would glue rivet heads on "for looks". The prop shop has never tried to keep any consistancy with details like fasteners (I could site several examples if needed).
DARTH SABER
Master Member
(EDIT)
I just noticed that theres a seam on the metal between the control box and grips...What is that??
It also looks like the top holes are bigger than the bottom grip holes...wouldnt that be the other way around??
As for the swirly marks around the D-ring, Ive seen this before...When I was making a custom saber a while back there was some metal shavings stuck under the rivets, so I had to drill them out...I drilled out the rivet closest to the edge first and then I drilled out the center rivet...When I drilled out the center rivet it ended up spinning around and marked up the tube with the same markings as the pics above...
I just noticed that theres a seam on the metal between the control box and grips...What is that??
It also looks like the top holes are bigger than the bottom grip holes...wouldnt that be the other way around??
As for the swirly marks around the D-ring, Ive seen this before...When I was making a custom saber a while back there was some metal shavings stuck under the rivets, so I had to drill them out...I drilled out the rivet closest to the edge first and then I drilled out the center rivet...When I drilled out the center rivet it ended up spinning around and marked up the tube with the same markings as the pics above...
DARTH SABER
Master Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Killdozer has outlined the metal "disc" in several pics exacty as how I see it</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Killdozer made a diagram with red lines, and he has added a step in a white area where there is no indication of a step...He also added a step where a lump of glue is oozing out of one of the grips....
He has drawn these steps in areas wher I soo no lines, indication, or avan a shadow of a step. It actually looks closer to a rounded or beveled edge rather than a step...
Killdozer made a diagram with red lines, and he has added a step in a white area where there is no indication of a step...He also added a step where a lump of glue is oozing out of one of the grips....
He has drawn these steps in areas wher I soo no lines, indication, or avan a shadow of a step. It actually looks closer to a rounded or beveled edge rather than a step...
DARTH SABER
Master Member
heres a close up of the seam Im talking about (red arrows) and the difference in size of the holes...
Johnleprekan
New Member
Could be my eyes playing tricks on me, but I do see a slight bevel on that red section I outlined. From the pics I've seen, it looks like the control box started out looking clean and gets mashed up and repainted. Like those guys were playing football with that thing. Could also be that the control box was made flat by patching it up again. Would explain the tube covering the threads falling off and why the holes disappeared on the grip section.
DARTH SABER
Master Member
OK a few questions...
1) Out of all the Luke ESB sabers which one was used as the ROTJ saber (Most likely the bladed one with Luke hand getting severed??)
2) Why would the prop makers put all of that crap on the endcap??
3)are there any other photos of the bladed ESB stunt???
1) Out of all the Luke ESB sabers which one was used as the ROTJ saber (Most likely the bladed one with Luke hand getting severed??)
2) Why would the prop makers put all of that crap on the endcap??
3)are there any other photos of the bladed ESB stunt???
Brevin Din-Shay
Sr Member
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Killdozer wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Darth S, is there an unmarked version of the "lined" endcap photo you posted?
KD
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KD,
That pic is coming up VERY soon. Waiting for KL to get online (he's hosting it).
I have a feeling it's gonna shock some of you guys!
Killdozer wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Darth S, is there an unmarked version of the "lined" endcap photo you posted?
KD
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KD,
That pic is coming up VERY soon. Waiting for KL to get online (he's hosting it).
I have a feeling it's gonna shock some of you guys!
DARTH SABER
Master Member
I'm not trying to be stubborn here, its just that there are a few things which dont add up with the "Metal disc" theory...
For example-
1) Yes, on one posrtion of the edge it does look like there an edge of something sticking up, but on the other end the dge seems to fuse right into the lip of the tube..If there were a disc there, no matter how snuggly fit it would still show some sort of seam...But instead it seems to melt or fuse right into the lip..
2) The jagged edges on the edge which is sticking up...It doesnt look like the edge of a disc, but rather of somwthing which was probably chipped...
3) While Chris says theres a reflective metallic surface, I see nothing to indicate this...I do see light reflecting off of the D-ring attachment and lighing up a small dull area of the bottom, but it's not characteristic of the way light reflects off of metal..Its more characteristic of light reflecting off of a matte, or flat colored surface...
(And BTW, I have a chrome nut sitting on a piece of paper right now and the paper is indeed reflecting the light being cast from the nut...So paper can reflect light...Just not as sharply as metal.)
4) The base definitely looks like its some kind of chalky white texture which is, once again, not characteristic of metal..
Heres what Im thinking about the raised edge and fused edge-
Im thinkig the bottom was coated with Putty/epoxy (whatever you want to call it) and one side had more epxy than the other which left a raised area..
Then possibly this raised area was chipped off diring filming leaving a jagged edge which might look like the edge of a disc..
For example-
1) Yes, on one posrtion of the edge it does look like there an edge of something sticking up, but on the other end the dge seems to fuse right into the lip of the tube..If there were a disc there, no matter how snuggly fit it would still show some sort of seam...But instead it seems to melt or fuse right into the lip..
2) The jagged edges on the edge which is sticking up...It doesnt look like the edge of a disc, but rather of somwthing which was probably chipped...
3) While Chris says theres a reflective metallic surface, I see nothing to indicate this...I do see light reflecting off of the D-ring attachment and lighing up a small dull area of the bottom, but it's not characteristic of the way light reflects off of metal..Its more characteristic of light reflecting off of a matte, or flat colored surface...
(And BTW, I have a chrome nut sitting on a piece of paper right now and the paper is indeed reflecting the light being cast from the nut...So paper can reflect light...Just not as sharply as metal.)
4) The base definitely looks like its some kind of chalky white texture which is, once again, not characteristic of metal..
Heres what Im thinking about the raised edge and fused edge-
Im thinkig the bottom was coated with Putty/epoxy (whatever you want to call it) and one side had more epxy than the other which left a raised area..
Then possibly this raised area was chipped off diring filming leaving a jagged edge which might look like the edge of a disc..
Brevin Din-Shay
Sr Member
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DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
3) While Chris says theres a reflective metallic surface, I see nothing to indicate this...I do see light reflecting off of the D-ring attachment and lighing up a small dull area of the bottom, but it's not characteristic of the way light reflects off of metal..Its more characteristic of light reflecting off of a matte, or flat colored surface...
(And BTW, I have a chrome nut sitting on a piece of paper right now and the paper is indeed reflecting the light being cast from the nut...So paper can reflect light...Just not as sharply as metal.)
4) The base definitely looks like its some kind of chalky white texture which is, once again, not characteristic of metal..
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That's exactly what I was going to say in a future post, Pat.
There should be no doubts that light-colored surfaces are very much capable of light reflection.
DARTH SABER wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
3) While Chris says theres a reflective metallic surface, I see nothing to indicate this...I do see light reflecting off of the D-ring attachment and lighing up a small dull area of the bottom, but it's not characteristic of the way light reflects off of metal..Its more characteristic of light reflecting off of a matte, or flat colored surface...
(And BTW, I have a chrome nut sitting on a piece of paper right now and the paper is indeed reflecting the light being cast from the nut...So paper can reflect light...Just not as sharply as metal.)
4) The base definitely looks like its some kind of chalky white texture which is, once again, not characteristic of metal..
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That's exactly what I was going to say in a future post, Pat.
There should be no doubts that light-colored surfaces are very much capable of light reflection.
DARTH SABER
Master Member
David, any idea what that seam is on the metal tube??? Right between the geips and control box???
Is that a seam or it it a marking from where the 6 grips used to be??
It definitely looks like a raised area.
Is that a seam or it it a marking from where the 6 grips used to be??
It definitely looks like a raised area.
Brevin Din-Shay
Sr Member
Workin' on it, Pat.
I'm about to have to log off again. Just thought I'd see what cool new stuff you guys had come up with.
I'm about to have to log off again. Just thought I'd see what cool new stuff you guys had come up with.
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the delay, David - just woke up!!
Here are the pics that David wanted me to post, with the following comment:
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David wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Hey guys,
CHECK OUT THIS SHOT:
(From the private collection of CRPROPS - he was
gracious enough to not only send it to me, but allow
me to share it with you all!)
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Here's the first pic, sized down slightly:
Same pic, cropped and enlarged:
Second pic, blown up and brightness adjusted slightly:
hmmm..... looks most likely like an endcap afterall...
Here are the pics that David wanted me to post, with the following comment:
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
David wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
Hey guys,
CHECK OUT THIS SHOT:
(From the private collection of CRPROPS - he was
gracious enough to not only send it to me, but allow
me to share it with you all!)
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Here's the first pic, sized down slightly:
Same pic, cropped and enlarged:
Second pic, blown up and brightness adjusted slightly:
hmmm..... looks most likely like an endcap afterall...
DARTH SABER
Master Member
<---- shutting up now..
Well, that definitely shows a reflective surface, chip in the metal, and a pronounce metal lip sticking out...
This looks like an older photo...The control box seems to be aligned straight....And alot less crap covering the bottom of the saber..
Well, that definitely shows a reflective surface, chip in the metal, and a pronounce metal lip sticking out...
This looks like an older photo...The control box seems to be aligned straight....And alot less crap covering the bottom of the saber..
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