Where did you see that? Amazon, Best Buy, even the official website still say 9/25...
Marvel sued over Avenger's BluRay Case
- Thread starter Jeyl
- Start date
Eopie Herder
Sr Member
avengers lawsuit - Yahoo! Search Results
Take your pick...a lot of sites reporting now. This has all gone down in the last 36 hours it seems.
allosaur176
Sr Member
Hopefully they sort this out soon
Is Disney phasing out all briefcase connections in the Avengers collector's set? - Nerd Reactor
From the sound of it, the litigation alone is stalling things out and its quite possible with that that the brief case company is trying to hold Disney for a good monetary penalty. Disney does not do well with such threats and words is that they are now looking to scale back the set to a tesserat cube only gift set to salvage something from this. Best idea would be to go back to the carrier option if they cannot compromise.
Frankly, the briefcase company is going to look like the traditional German staunch business jerks if they hold out and it cannot be good for future business and public relations. But people do get stupid when it comes to money.
From the sound of it, the litigation alone is stalling things out and its quite possible with that that the brief case company is trying to hold Disney for a good monetary penalty. Disney does not do well with such threats and words is that they are now looking to scale back the set to a tesserat cube only gift set to salvage something from this. Best idea would be to go back to the carrier option if they cannot compromise.
Frankly, the briefcase company is going to look like the traditional German staunch business jerks if they hold out and it cannot be good for future business and public relations. But people do get stupid when it comes to money.
cboath
Master Member
I said it before, it's purely for money. No one on the planet is going to mistake this case for an actual briefcase that company makes. If you're in that type of briefcase market, it's just so blatantly obvious.
Breaking down the costs to the consumer as it was, there wasn't a whole lot of mark up. Meaning, they weren't making a lot of (probably very little) off the case itself.
Breaking down the costs to the consumer as it was, there wasn't a whole lot of mark up. Meaning, they weren't making a lot of (probably very little) off the case itself.
I'm pretty sure the people who actually buy $700 attaches are not going to hold back because of this. If Rimowa had a case with a Disney character on it Disney would jump on them with both feet. That is what they did to some preschools that had murals featuring Disney characters. So basically Disney is getting what they usually give.
JD
Master Member
Not necessarily - and well, yes. You have to protect what's yours - and this product and it's image belongs to that manufacturer. You have to protect what's yours, if you don't you risk losing what's yours (just as Fender guitar didn't protect it's Stratocaster design for years and when it tried to, it was too late).
Marvel knew who made this briefcase and even asked permission to use the case in the film. It's their fault for not trying to secure permission before going ahead with this.
Considering the scheduled release is less than a month away, everything has been produced and packaged. Best case scenario, Disney/Marvel pays a nice chunk of change to the company and proceeds as planned; worst case, the release is delayed, but everything gets worked out and then proceeds as planned.
Solo4114
Master Member
I don't think the briefcase company looks bad. I think they look like business men. Actually, pretty savvy ones at that. They timed their litigation to hit EXACTLY at the worst time for Disney, and rightly so.
If this is an unlicensed use of their trademarks, then yeah, Disney's gonna either pay up to get a license, or repackage the thing. But either way, I don't think it's unfair at all for the briefcase company to say "Whoa! Hey, jackasses, you wanna use our design? You sign a license and pay the fee. You wanna fight us in court? Ok, the fee just went up." Now, Disney is probably going to be relying on the fact that the case was used in the film (several films, actually, no?), so they're probably trying to claim they ALREADY have a right to use the design...but I'd bet the license agreement for the use in the FILM was written effectively enough that the lawyers now have to sit down and hash out precisely what the language means.
That's the ultimate question, I'm betting: What does the FILM license actually say with respect to MERCHANDISING rights, if anything. If it's an open-and-shut "Yes, Disney has the right, what the hell were you thinking?" case, then I expect the temporary restraining order will be dismissed relatively quickly, once some preliminary motions are filed. But the real question is....how long can Disney afford to sit on the merchandise before they start losing money? How long do they want to fight about this?
It may be that Disney had a cavalier "Whatever. We're the mouse. We own the world," attitude and went ahead. But it could ALSO be that they relied, in good faith, on the language of the film license, and it's the briefcase company that's putting the screws to them with a precisely timed nuisance suit, designed to squeeze them for more money. In truth, nothing Disney's probably unfamiliar with, since I'm sure they've done the same to others.
To some extent, sure. Or maybe not. But you're right that, were the roles reversed, Disney would be all over the infringing use like stink on s**t.
I see three outcomes:
1.) Disney negotiates a settlement, pays these guys their walking fee, and the case is released, say, around October.
2.) Disney goes with "Plan B" and repackages the set. I think this is a lot less likely, simply due to the production costs associated with creating the packaging. What, you're gonna throw that away COMPLETELY? Then again, it may depend on how the production costs compare to the costs of fighting the suit and paying for a license.
3.) Disney and the company fight it out, until...hmm...early November? At which point Disney cuts its losses and either pays up, or goes with "Plan B."
I expect Disney will pay. This will be negotiated and they'll be pissed...but they'll pay. They've already taken pre-orders. Hopefully that DOESN'T mean they've taken cash, because that'd REALLY put 'em in a bind. But they can gauge the demand, see whether the market's there, and figure out how to do this if they really want to, which I expect they do.
Really, either way you slice it, the briefcase company played this one well. They may have played it dirty, but they played it well nonetheless.
The company paid to have their product highlighted in the film which is general practice. It gives them exposure for marketing.
Disney further took that without permission and produced the limited edition dvds which would have furthered the Pr cause.
IS the company really being business savvy? Given no other company may want to work with them after this and the publicity can backfire badly for them with many, I would have to say taking this tact is risky. Pushing hard even more so.
Unless they are financially in trouble, its not the best direction to take. But if it is purely a money issue, then that's the path they choose.
But business is about relationships as much as money for long term business outlooks. That is why I believe this is a case where they are being jerks. Mind you, I excelled in business negotiation classes and with twenty years in the real work private sector. There are always different tactics you can take as a business but if you don't look at the long term and look to build relationships, you better be in a strong position to do so.
I know it is important to protect your IP as well, but in this case it is obvious that the case as it is selling is not going to be mistaken for the real case. It cannot harm the reputation but more over will likely help market the product.
Since it has not been marketed yet, there has been no damage done to the company, so there are no real damages to collect at this time. (Something a die hard lawsuit business could have done to maximize a lawsuit payout). So holding out now is frankly, is because they are being jerks / letting emotion run over rational about it.
Or to put it simpler, they have everything to gain by quickly coming to a settlement, unless they want to make it hard on Disney and reap potential negative feedback, negative pr along with a financial reward.
In a win-win scenario of negotiation, you maximize both sides piece of the pie. Given this is not the tact being taken, again, this is poorly being handled by the briefcase company.
Given there is a lot of posturing going on now, but with the time limits approaching and Disney having to start changing the distribution and create cost with secondary planning, the legal hard tactic push is now passing that middle ground compromise line of a win win scenario, which means one side or both side now will lose something in this battle.
For a businesses to force that into play, again in my opinion, caused both side not to maximize their resources and its a foolish power play and a foolish business practice.
They are taking a legitimate business tactic, but when hard feelings come into play, you have to weigh the outcome of those tactics properly.
Disney further took that without permission and produced the limited edition dvds which would have furthered the Pr cause.
IS the company really being business savvy? Given no other company may want to work with them after this and the publicity can backfire badly for them with many, I would have to say taking this tact is risky. Pushing hard even more so.
Unless they are financially in trouble, its not the best direction to take. But if it is purely a money issue, then that's the path they choose.
But business is about relationships as much as money for long term business outlooks. That is why I believe this is a case where they are being jerks. Mind you, I excelled in business negotiation classes and with twenty years in the real work private sector. There are always different tactics you can take as a business but if you don't look at the long term and look to build relationships, you better be in a strong position to do so.
I know it is important to protect your IP as well, but in this case it is obvious that the case as it is selling is not going to be mistaken for the real case. It cannot harm the reputation but more over will likely help market the product.
Since it has not been marketed yet, there has been no damage done to the company, so there are no real damages to collect at this time. (Something a die hard lawsuit business could have done to maximize a lawsuit payout). So holding out now is frankly, is because they are being jerks / letting emotion run over rational about it.
Or to put it simpler, they have everything to gain by quickly coming to a settlement, unless they want to make it hard on Disney and reap potential negative feedback, negative pr along with a financial reward.
In a win-win scenario of negotiation, you maximize both sides piece of the pie. Given this is not the tact being taken, again, this is poorly being handled by the briefcase company.
Given there is a lot of posturing going on now, but with the time limits approaching and Disney having to start changing the distribution and create cost with secondary planning, the legal hard tactic push is now passing that middle ground compromise line of a win win scenario, which means one side or both side now will lose something in this battle.
For a businesses to force that into play, again in my opinion, caused both side not to maximize their resources and its a foolish power play and a foolish business practice.
They are taking a legitimate business tactic, but when hard feelings come into play, you have to weigh the outcome of those tactics properly.
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Solo4114
Master Member
Wow! You raise some excellent points there, and stuff I hadn't really thought about. That's probably because I come at this from a lawyer's perspective, which generally is more about "Solve this problem, right here, right now." Allow me to restate my position.
If the goal is "Get more money out of Disney," with no real consideration for the long-term impact of that move, then I think this is an effective approach. They have Disney over a barrel, unless the documents clearly show that Disney has the right to do this, in which case they're slitting their own throats.
I don't work in this industry, so I'm not sure what custom is here, but I'd still be curious as to what the documents themselves say. If it's actually that Disney is somehow screwing the company with its merchandising effort, then I can understand doing this. If it's to force Disney to come to the table and negotiate a license agreement to protect trademarks, then I can understand the move in that sense, as long as they're making it clear that they're trying to protect their marks, not screw with Disney and gouge them.
If they're just gouging Disney because...well...why not, then yeah, that's boneheaded. Disney probably gets away with that kind of maneuver in other cases because they're a HUGE company and that means they have a lot of business to offer folks. Kind of like the hot girl who acts like a flake, but gets away with it because she's hot and knows guys will put up with her flakiness for a shot at some action.
Anyway, yeah, long-term relationship-wise...stupid move. Short term "**** relationships. Get money"-wise? Effective, assuming the documents support them.
The briefcase company doesn't really have any future relations with Disney that need to be tactfully dealt with. The use of their briefcase in one of the biggest movies of all time was a once in a lifetime fluke choice by an art director who was shown a dozen different cases.
Jumping on a copyright infringement oversight is probably the last money they will be able to get out of Disney.
It's not like Disney was getting ready to use another of their briefcases in next year's blockbuster "Shaggy DA" remake but were now so insulted by this legal maneuvering that they have torn up that check.
If Sony had a DVD set wrapped in a Mickey Mouse shirt I'm sure Disney would take legal action in a similar way.
Nick
Jumping on a copyright infringement oversight is probably the last money they will be able to get out of Disney.
It's not like Disney was getting ready to use another of their briefcases in next year's blockbuster "Shaggy DA" remake but were now so insulted by this legal maneuvering that they have torn up that check.
If Sony had a DVD set wrapped in a Mickey Mouse shirt I'm sure Disney would take legal action in a similar way.
Nick
Same here, looks like the German company is only looking at the dollars as an issue in the settlement. The biggest bargaining chip (time which = money) is off the table.
The e-mail noted it will be totally repackaged and sent out in the spring. The delay and bonus to the consumers has to be a terrific financial hit to Disney, the suitcase company must really be playing hardball. The cost to Disney at this point has to be a pretty bitter pill to swallow. I doubt they will try to work anything out after this point. The cost has to be past the BATNA (best alternative to negotiate agreement) stage. The whole success of this case probably hinged on the opening discussion between Disney and Rimowa and I am guessing that both were most likely not willing to budge too much. A killer to an early on agreement if that was how each company approached it at the beginning.
Rimowa is a privately owned large company, so not like Disney could buy them out as George Lucas when he had similar conflicts. (When it gets this costly, you look at all the options.) Rimowa is also just coming out with a poly carbon / plastic suit case after producing just aluminum cases all these years (bad timing by Disney), so it looks like they are going to be extremely defensive on protecting their IP.
Bottom line, a nasty and costly fight ahead, Disney is really going to take a hit with this one. For a fanboy, it is quite the shame as Disney had / would have hit a home run otherwise with this ultimate edition design.
Academically, this would make a super case study for IP infringement as well especially for mediation and negotiation studies.
The e-mail noted it will be totally repackaged and sent out in the spring. The delay and bonus to the consumers has to be a terrific financial hit to Disney, the suitcase company must really be playing hardball. The cost to Disney at this point has to be a pretty bitter pill to swallow. I doubt they will try to work anything out after this point. The cost has to be past the BATNA (best alternative to negotiate agreement) stage. The whole success of this case probably hinged on the opening discussion between Disney and Rimowa and I am guessing that both were most likely not willing to budge too much. A killer to an early on agreement if that was how each company approached it at the beginning.
Rimowa is a privately owned large company, so not like Disney could buy them out as George Lucas when he had similar conflicts. (When it gets this costly, you look at all the options.) Rimowa is also just coming out with a poly carbon / plastic suit case after producing just aluminum cases all these years (bad timing by Disney), so it looks like they are going to be extremely defensive on protecting their IP.
Bottom line, a nasty and costly fight ahead, Disney is really going to take a hit with this one. For a fanboy, it is quite the shame as Disney had / would have hit a home run otherwise with this ultimate edition design.
Academically, this would make a super case study for IP infringement as well especially for mediation and negotiation studies.
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cboath
Master Member
If Disney is giving up and repackaging AND delaying 6-8 months, seems like the fight is over and they elected to not participate.
I, too, got a code for a free copy as well. I'm of two minds on this - i was really wanting thor, CA, and the Hulk as well as I don't have them. Made it a clear bargain for me. Still a bargain if the price holds, but sucks having to wait that long to get them.
I, too, got a code for a free copy as well. I'm of two minds on this - i was really wanting thor, CA, and the Hulk as well as I don't have them. Made it a clear bargain for me. Still a bargain if the price holds, but sucks having to wait that long to get them.
Got my email, placed my order as well 
I see it a little differently, though. Disney made a great PR move here by offering the free copy of The Avengers to everyone who preordered the MCU: Phase One package. Let's just throw out an arbitrary number of units that were going to be offered... It was a "limited edition," so we know there weren't going to be hundreds of thousands of these cases out there. Let's say a conservative number of 5,000 units. Even if every one of those units was sold through preorder (which they weren't, because preorders were still going until the case caused them to stop) that is only $125k that Disney is missing out on in DVD sales. That number isn't all that big considering how much this DVD will bring in. And again, that is if every preorder was filled. On the flip side of that, those who kept there preorder open (which was a stipulation of the free DVD offer) are most likely still going to keep that preorder open until the package is released. Some will drop off, sure. But Disney is still going to get that money for package sales as well once everything is ready to go. Disney is going to come out of this smelling like roses.
Rimowa on the other hand, is going to take a major PR hit because of this. It appears as if they weren't willing to work out a licensing deal with Disney to make the original packaging happen. Sure, they will gain some name recognition out of this, but it will mostly be for bad reasons. This isn't a big news-grabbing case. Go out on the street and ask five random people if they have heard of Rimowa or this dispute, and most of them will say no. The people who have heard of the case are those affected by it: us, the consumers of Disney/Marvel's product. Personally, I'm left with a sour taste in my mouth on behalf of Rimowa, because I really wanted the original package as it was designed and intended. I'm sure I will be just as happy with whatever Disney comes up with, but I will still hold a slight disdain for Rimowa.
It's unfortunate that everything went down the way it did, but I'm glad Disney isn't leaving us out in the cold.
I see it a little differently, though. Disney made a great PR move here by offering the free copy of The Avengers to everyone who preordered the MCU: Phase One package. Let's just throw out an arbitrary number of units that were going to be offered... It was a "limited edition," so we know there weren't going to be hundreds of thousands of these cases out there. Let's say a conservative number of 5,000 units. Even if every one of those units was sold through preorder (which they weren't, because preorders were still going until the case caused them to stop) that is only $125k that Disney is missing out on in DVD sales. That number isn't all that big considering how much this DVD will bring in. And again, that is if every preorder was filled. On the flip side of that, those who kept there preorder open (which was a stipulation of the free DVD offer) are most likely still going to keep that preorder open until the package is released. Some will drop off, sure. But Disney is still going to get that money for package sales as well once everything is ready to go. Disney is going to come out of this smelling like roses.
Rimowa on the other hand, is going to take a major PR hit because of this. It appears as if they weren't willing to work out a licensing deal with Disney to make the original packaging happen. Sure, they will gain some name recognition out of this, but it will mostly be for bad reasons. This isn't a big news-grabbing case. Go out on the street and ask five random people if they have heard of Rimowa or this dispute, and most of them will say no. The people who have heard of the case are those affected by it: us, the consumers of Disney/Marvel's product. Personally, I'm left with a sour taste in my mouth on behalf of Rimowa, because I really wanted the original package as it was designed and intended. I'm sure I will be just as happy with whatever Disney comes up with, but I will still hold a slight disdain for Rimowa.
It's unfortunate that everything went down the way it did, but I'm glad Disney isn't leaving us out in the cold.
dbalschi
Sr Member
How would Rimowa get a bad rep for this? Their design is being used without their permission. Disney should have thought that through and contacted them before they offered it. To me Disney looks bad for not seeking permission to duplicate a product when they have been going after people for years who have duplicated theirs even when it is not for a profit.
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