Large scale SW models, where to begin?

[TCSloan]

After years of being addicted to armor and large scale figures, I finally rekindled my love for Star wars models. I always liked the larger scale , 1/35 armor and 1/32 aircraft,so to me, the current kit offerings from MPC/Revell, and Fine Molds are just too small ! :eek I currently reworking some of the newer Hasbro toys, but would like to scratch build my own as well. But my knowledge of reference available is almost zilch.. where do I start? For examples, building Studio Scale models, I know there are kit parts lists etc, but where do you begin with the main body? are there plans available? If I want to scratch build a Shuttle Tyderium, or 6' Star Destroyer, where do I egt good plans or schematics. If none are available, what do you guys do? any help would be appreciated. :confused

 

[Flintlock]

Haha... we make our own plans...:ninja

If you want to do a Tyderium, carefully read through all the Tyderium threads (I think there are at least 2). Ask the builders nicely, and they may help you with plans.

Other ships (like the Y Wing) have a lot of surface detail parts. The trick there is to amass the donor parts, and measure them while looking at good reference (good reference is extremely important) in order to try and figure out what the measurements of the underlying structure are. So, in cases like that you will be doing a lot of kit collecting first before you draw up any plans.

 

[TCSloan]

mm, I was afraid of that. Having sold off my entire armor and aircraft collection..my wife would be pissed if I bought an entire new collection just to build one model lol

 

[astroboy]

track down these books:

-sculpting a galaxy
-star wars chronicles
-from star wars to indiana jones": the best of the lucasfilm prop archive (start with this. it's chap and great)

 

[TCSloan]

will do thanks for the tip!

 

[Junk Pilot]

mm, I was afraid of that. Having sold off my entire armor and aircraft collection..my wife would be pissed if I bought an entire new collection just to build one model lol

Especially when she finds out that you only need one part from an entire kit. lol.

 

[Flintlock]

track down these books:

-sculpting a galaxy
-star wars chronicles
-from star wars to indiana jones": the best of the lucasfilm prop archive (start with this. it's chap and great)

will do thanks for the tip!

That's where I started in '97-'98-'99, but now don't even look at these books. There's good info and inspiring pics, to be sure, but they will not be adequate to get you where you might want to be. It depends on how accurate you want to get. As I said, good reference is essential, and the reference pictures in these books are not always great. There is no good reason to trust the blueprints (where given) in them either.

For instance, as far as I am aware, there are no pictures of the Y Wing in any of these books that are good enough to give you an accurate plan for the underlying geometrical shapes. It can get really confusing, and you can't make out a lot of the detail, which makes identifying parts very difficult. In short, you can learn much, much more just by reading through the threads on this site that might interest you than you can by picking up those books. Here you can learn specific kits and parts. There, you get some pictures that, even if they are good quality, will not tell you what parts are what. It takes a lot of research and a lot of work. Save every picture you come across, and also save explanatory text.

But if you don't care so much for super accuracy (which is only possible up to a point anyway), and can live with quite a bit of inaccuracy, then have at it - and have a blast! Those resources (the books mentioned) might be all you want and need. No one can tell you what you have to do. But even if you get the books, you have to identify parts, buy the kits, make measurements, etc..

None of this is meant to discourage you, by any means. It can be a very fun and rewarding endeavor.

Especially when she finds out that you only need one part from an entire kit. lol.

Save all your parts! You may come up with your own original design you can use leftover parts to detail. And some kits may have parts for other SS builds. I have bought kits before on little more than hope, and was thoroughly disappointed that they didn't have what I expected. Then, after having them for a few years, I found that they actually DID have parts I needed (I just didn't have good enough reference to realize it) or that they had parts for a completely different model I hadn't yet considered. But have some guidelines - research kits that were available during the timeframe the model you want to replicate was first built.

 

[TCSloan]

thanks Flint, I appreciate the guidance. Ive been reading through websites/forums for days now, and noone really mentions on how they get measurements or dimensions on anything. So for example, I want to build an ATAT thats 4 foot tall, knowing what parts ILM used doesnt really help, since I dont know the dimensions of their foundation, ie, walls top bottom etc. The details are easy IF I have a basis to start with. Understanding for example, the Ywing you mention, since the lack of good photos to make plans from, what IS the majority of scratchbuilders using to base their structure on?

 

[jedimaster]

In the case of a 4 foot at at for example. If you have a photo of the rear end and know they used a 1/24th sherman tank part. Then first get the sherman tank kit. Stick the pic on a copier/scanner and enlargre the pic so the tank part on the pi c is the same size as the one in your hand. Then measure the rest of the dimensions in the pic and that should give you the template for the arse end of the walker. then start cutting your styrene and adding your kit parts.

 

[astroboy]

incidentally, I just got "the making of the empire strikes back" today and there are some dimensions in there for a SS snowspeeder.

Again, probably not to be trusted entirely, but it's a start.

 

[Flintlock]

TCSloan, you piece it together little-by-little. It takes a while to amass enough tidbits of knowledge to put together a good picture of what you're trying to make, but along the way you have to make some estimations and assumptions. Don't worry: While there are some people here who don't want to help, there are others very much willing to do so - as long as you show effort on your part as well, and don't just ask for everyone else to do it for you.

I've been piecing the Y Wing together for, what, 13 years now... and some people know much more about it than I do - they actually went and measured the real damn things. That's something I'll never get to do, but they won't share info with me. So, I am on my own. I am willing to share what info about it I have, but I don't want anyone to take it on some kind of 'authority'. I've had to make some compromises since I am working from limited reference photos, and some more perceptive person might find something that doesn't suit them well.

There are lots of techniques you can learn. One technique people here are starting to use is taking reference photos of the models on museum tours, and plugging them into software that will resolve the shape and size of the model in a 3D modeling program such as 3D Studio Max. For that, you need digital photographs that contain the lens information so the photos can be corrected for distortion.

In short, it's a long, slow process - but progress is being continually made, and our communal knowledge of these things has grown pretty large. A lot of the info you seek is out there in the threads. The more you read, the clearer picture you will have.

Now, about the specific models you mentioned - the Tyderium and the AT-AT. You'd probably be better off asking the guys who actually built these, but I'd be willing to help you make progress in nailing their shapes/dimensions/etc... as much as I can make time for. I think Julien (Monsieur Tox) made/is making a Shuttle. He's one of the best builders on here, so you might want to drop him a line. I personally haven't built much of anything - I am satisfied with my Y Wing plans and with the amount of parts I have for it, but right now I cannot afford any building materials for it. The other projects I want to do I am still researching.

 

[jedimaster]

Mike salzo built a four foot walker. Really nice model.

 

[Flintlock]

In the case of a 4 foot at at for example. If you have a photo of the rear end and know they used a 1/24th sherman tank part. Then first get the sherman tank kit. Stick the pic on a copier/scanner and enlargre the pic so the tank part on the pi c is the same size as the one in your hand. Then measure the rest of the dimensions in the pic and that should give you the template for the arse end of the walker. then start cutting your styrene and adding your kit parts.

That's right. You solve one area at a time, and piece it together. You have to make some estimations here and there, and if you are skilled with 3D modeling software, you can create a mock-up in 3D and rotate it around to compare it with reference photos to see if it checks out. This isn't exact, of course, but you can eliminate large distortions that way.

incidentally, I just got "the making of the empire strikes back" today and there are some dimensions in there for a SS snowspeeder.

Again, probably not to be trusted entirely, but it's a start.

There's just no way to know for sure, unless you work on plans in the ways mentioned above until you are pretty certain you nailed it, then verify that blueprint to yours. But if you've already got blueprints you've slaved over and trust, why worry about the ones in the books?

Some of the blueprints you can find out there are actually pretty bad - like the one for the Y Wing, I can tell you. Other ones ... who knows? They could be accurate - right on the money even - but what do you compare it to to verify that?

Also remember that the blueprint you make will be an attempt to recreate a model as it exists, whereas the blueprints the original builders worked from were created before any model existed, and may not match it exactly (i.e., they were free to deviate from the plans where they saw fit).

 

[Flintlock]

If you're looking for a good model to start with... I always thought that the Jedi Training remote would be perfect for that. The TIE Bomber could be a second, though you'll end up spending a lot of $ on kits.

 

[TCSloan]

I give a big thankyou to you guys for being a big help in pointing me in the right direction. Ive got some pretty good photos of the ATAT. I would imagine, again an example, the ATAT rear, if I recall the upper hull was used from the Tamiya SDkfz 222..I dont guess it would hurt to use another brand. Theyre usually relatively close. I think I'll start grabbing some parts like you said and start from there..until then Im currently reworking the newer Hasbro Tie Bomber..at presnt Im completely building the wings from scratch. That'll keep me busy till I get something going on the ATAT.
BTW, any idea if/when the Star Wars models tour might be? wasnt sure if they were currently or planning on doing that again..I missed it the last time it was in Atlanta

 

[jedimaster]

As flintlock said 3d models have become a great help. I have a friend who designs luxury yaught interiors. He has a large scale printer and I gave him a couple of ILM blueprints for a 1:1 speeder bike and he has not only turned it into a 3d model but has dissasembled the model and turned it into 2d part templates ready for cnc cutting in 5&10 mm MDF , so it is like an Ikea flatpack kit.

The same can be done with any kit if you some of the values ie 5 ft wide x 2 ft deep the software can work out the other values to give you a template. I gave him the Ariel shot of the five foot falcon filming model andhe is currently tracing it into the computer. Once we get some more dimensions from kit parts and other pix like Martyns we can hopefully do the same for the falcon. Then it's simply a matter of sharing the files and people can get the structure and panels cut from whatever they wish ie styrene/ MDF etc. Then just add your kits and detailing. Some people are already willing to cast up some of the harder to find kit parts for other builders.

Whichever way you go patience is the key. It may take even years just to collect the kits.
The turbo laser canon for example. Looks easy enough right? Just a couple of boxes with guns. The easiest part is building the structure. You will however need to but around 25 kits just to detail it. Luckily if you are building other models these kits are used on a lot of other models.

At the end of the day just have fun

 

[TCSloan]

Yeah those 3D software programs are really cool. I once had Poser 6 and had some fun with it, I even had some of the available 3D Star Wars models for it..man, wish I still had all that. Alot of the details I can build, but certain items will certainly be difficult, like the 222 tub and Harrier engine. BTW, does anyone know what scale the 222 model was that was used on the largest ILM model? I assume it was 1/35, but I didnt know if there was a bigger back then or not.

 

[astroboy]

are these at all accurate or useful?

 

[Flintlock]

As far as I know there were the smaller AT-ATs, which have the Tamiya 1:35 SdKfz 222 on them, and a larger one used for one shot (I think where Luke blows it up with a grenade). The same piece for that one is likely scratchbuilt. For the smaller AT-ATs, they use the Airfix 1:24 Hawker Harrier.

 

[TCSloan]

I thought that might be the case. I was searching for any 222s larger than 1/35 earlier and didnt come up with any. I was thinking the 21st century toys made one in 1/18, but I couldnt find any online. It wouldnt be too difficult though to upscale one from scratch,but that harrier engine would be my problem.