Cumberland Film
New Member
awesome! will do. thanks for the pointers guys really looking forward to building this! i will keep you posted on how it all goes
Jackieisrockin's IM3 Iron Patriot Pepakura Files! V2 files coming soon!
- Thread starter jackieisrockin
- Start date
awesome! will do. thanks for the pointers guys really looking forward to building this! i will keep you posted on how it all goes
msleeper
Sr Member
I'll freely admit I am not extensively experienced with cardboard pep. I used paper files to laser cut 3mm corrugated board for the Mk 3 chest as a proof of concept, and I kept all of the smaller parts included. Foam files are intended to be used with a material that can fold into compound curves, which is why you can cut corners when making larger parts. If you use paper files, you will probably have to decide on a part-by-part basis what you can leave or take out.
Basically, I used paper files because cardboard behaves more like paper than sheet foam, and I'd rather take the time to cut and glue extra seams and risers than deal with mishapen parts from trying to curve corrugated board in a way it won't handle.
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
I've never had a problem with bending the cardboard, but I guess it depends on the thickness of the cardboard and how much of a curve is needed. I guess if the cardboard wouldn't bend a certain way it could be made into an angle and smoothed into a curve with bondo after.
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
I see what you mean. It is possible to bend cardboard into a bowl shape, though definitely not as round as foam can make it. Though, I haven't seen a pep file where this is really needed so I haven't had trouble with it.
I'm just going to jump in here once.
**and to edit immediately, nothing on you Southpaw, but I'm speaking of tradestock cardboard (typically available boxwork in the US). I'm not challenging you on this, I just have my weight in experience of pepping, and failures from poor material choice.
Cardboard is a rigid material, just like cardstock or even paper. It is inflexible (for lack of a better word) in three dimensions. When you fold and crease it, you are simply (and beautifully) stuck in the dimensional world that us 3d modelers have to use. When you crease one direction (like paper), you are stuck finishing.
Southpaw, I'll do this politely before MS eats you alive. You really need to understand what you are talking about before suggesting things.
I've folded and built my weight in pieces, and can nearly guarantee that what you said is not true. But hey, I could be wrong too.
3 dimensional weight does not translate cleanly to cardboard, purely because of planar mathematics.
But hey, whatever. I've been wrong a gazillion times now, just ask my girlfriend.
I'm just going to assume that I'm misunderstanding you, but cardboard by necessity is a corrugated monster that is exceptionally inflexible. It has a grain like wood, and is horribly uncooperative across it's manufactured grain. It will fold and crease (at its convenience) along it's corrugation edge. If you crease and cut enough, you may create a curve.
I will say this once. You will NEVER create a dome from cardboard without tearing out corrugation, notching, or custom cutting. THE END.
THE END. Anybody who has ever tried making a dome out of cardboard can tell you this. If you've had better luck, awesome, help me. I like learning.
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SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
I definitely wasn't saying you can fold cardboard into a dome, I am just saying it can be bent (maybe curved is more accurate) many directions to make a round surface.
Question though, how did we get to this topic? I was saying to use foam pep templates over paper pep templates when building with cardboard, lol.
This is why the discussion started. Foam is flexible in 3 dimensions (and expandable), and your post suggested that cardboard could be used as a direct alternative.
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
No, I never said cardboard was an alternative to foam. Cumberland Film asked whether to use paper or foam files when building with cardboard, I said to use foam files as that's what your supposed to do when using cardboard. Then somehow we are talking about can cardboard bend in 3D when it's not what he had asked and I've never had an issue with it before.
OK. Well no worries then. Then, as a user of paper, cardboard, and foam, I would recommend not using foam files for cardboard, especially depending on the unfolder of the files. When a file is unfolded for foam, it's not just a matter of pulling out all of those thin edges no one likes pepping in paper; the software is typically set to also compensate for the angle of the folds, and eliminates many depending on the setting. Cardstock and cardboard by their natures cannot be made to dome, they will fold, bend or crease in one direction.
That's great that you haven't had any issues with it in your builds. I wish I could do that. :thumbsup
That's great that you haven't had any issues with it in your builds. I wish I could do that. :thumbsup
Cumberland Film
New Member
sorry if i upset anyone by starting that discussion.. lets just make sure that we dont get too ticked off with people over the internet cuz it is absolutely worthless.
the only reason i am using cardboard is im trying to save on money or else i would totaly use foam. i totaly see and agree with what msleeper originally said but because of money and stuff i have to stick with cardboard.
should i use the same methods for reinforcing the cardboard as i would with paper?
thanks for all of your help
the only reason i am using cardboard is im trying to save on money or else i would totaly use foam. i totaly see and agree with what msleeper originally said but because of money and stuff i have to stick with cardboard.
should i use the same methods for reinforcing the cardboard as i would with paper?
thanks for all of your help
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
sorry if i upset anyone by starting that discussion.. lets just make sure that we dont get too ticked off with people over the internet cuz it is absolutely worthless.
the only reason i am using cardboard is im trying to save on money or else i would totaly use foam. i totaly see and agree with what msleeper originally said but because of money and stuff i have to stick with cardboard.
should i use the same methods for reinforcing the cardboard as i would with paper?
thanks for all of your help
Yes, reinforcing the cardboard is the same as paper, resin, fibreglass, then bondo and sanding
msleeper
Sr Member
No one is upset at you for "trying to help someone". We're upset - or perhaps a better word is annoyed - because you seem to be perpetuating half-true information, and that doesn't actually help.
I'm not sure you and myself / laellee are talking about the same things. I'd actually really like to see a photo of what you're talking about doing, so I can see if we're on the same page. You say that you can "bend cardboard in many directions to make a round surface", and either you are literally a wizard, or you're doing something else that isn't what you're properly describing.
I think the "can cardboard form compound curves" discussion is absolutely relevant to the subject of whether to use paper or foam files. To reiterate what I said, in my limited experience working with cardboard pep, I used the paper files because corrugated board behaves more similarly to paper than to foam. Yes I'm sure you could use the foam files (and because of this conversation I may take the Pepsi challenge and try making the same part using paper and foam templates to compare) but I think you will get much less attractive, much less accurate looking results translating foam templates to cardboard.
I'm happy to be proven wrong or have my opinion changed, but I'm going to need more than saying "I've never had an issue" to do that.
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
I'll take a picture to show what I was saying, but not to prove you wrong, because you said it cannot bend in 2 directions to create a bowl shape, which I agree with, but it can be bent in 2 directions to make a compound curve to a certain extent. But just to ask, can you give an example of when a bowl shape is needed when building an Iron Man pep? I've certainly never seen one.
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by deformities? Things that can be fixed with Bondo?
And do you mean the shoulder bells of the patriot suit? Looking at the foam shoulder files, the model is pretty blocky, and when there are round parts the unfold is in separate pieces, not one.
And do you mean the shoulder bells of the patriot suit? Looking at the foam shoulder files, the model is pretty blocky, and when there are round parts the unfold is in separate pieces, not one.
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msleeper
Sr Member
I suppose, yeah. But that's my entire point - limit the things that need to be fixed, and try to create a superior sculpt from the start. Can you fix most problems later down the line? Yeah, sure. But if you spend the extra time in the cardboard stage, you'll reduce the amount of fixing you need to do.
SOUTHPAW
Well-Known Member
Wait, so this debate is about something that wouldn't affect the final result?
That could be said. But the final result doesn't matter if a piece is never finished because of frustration, which is what happens to a lot of people once they are into the bondo stage. A poorly built pepakura base and a perfectly built pepakura base can both be finished to the same final result, but the poorly constructed base can take 10 times as long to finish because of all of the corrective work and sculpting that is necessary.
And just to clarify, I was not annoyed or angered by your helping someone, Southpaw. I was being sincere that I was glad you've not had any problems with those build methods. The thing is, I have. And the type of cardboard, the type of model, the type of unfold, all of these things affect how well a build will go. I personally would never build an Iron Man helmet out of cardboard using a foam template. A lot of foam unfolds are set at 160 degree hidden bends, meaning any angles of less than 20 degrees are not shown as a fold. The cardboard I've used can compensate for those folds if they're spread out over a larger area (like a chest piece), but the curves become too much to ignore on some smaller pieces, causing the cardboard to crease. And as an added headache, the hidden bends are just that, hidden, so since they aren't printed on the templates, you can't mark them easily on the cardboard to add.
Anyways, no anger, no animosity, or whatever else. I want new builders to have the best chances of completing their projects and being happy with them, and my experience has shown more success with using paper unfolds for cardboard builds than foam unfolds. Mileage may vary.
And just to clarify, I was not annoyed or angered by your helping someone, Southpaw. I was being sincere that I was glad you've not had any problems with those build methods. The thing is, I have. And the type of cardboard, the type of model, the type of unfold, all of these things affect how well a build will go. I personally would never build an Iron Man helmet out of cardboard using a foam template. A lot of foam unfolds are set at 160 degree hidden bends, meaning any angles of less than 20 degrees are not shown as a fold. The cardboard I've used can compensate for those folds if they're spread out over a larger area (like a chest piece), but the curves become too much to ignore on some smaller pieces, causing the cardboard to crease. And as an added headache, the hidden bends are just that, hidden, so since they aren't printed on the templates, you can't mark them easily on the cardboard to add.
Anyways, no anger, no animosity, or whatever else. I want new builders to have the best chances of completing their projects and being happy with them, and my experience has shown more success with using paper unfolds for cardboard builds than foam unfolds. Mileage may vary.
