Is Darth Vader's saber blade painted (ANH) & blade flexing.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Mouse Vader, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. kpax

    kpax Sr Member

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    could be bending but also could simply be strobing. wave your finger in front of your screen. it appears to bend too... ; )
     
  2. kpax

    kpax Sr Member

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    two Qs and observations.

    in the first pic someone said there is a white wire running up his sleeve.

    In the second screen grab, he is letting the grip go with his right hand... no wire seen.

    Why make the wire "white" and very visible
    could the white in the first image be his white sleeve?


    In the screen grab, an interesting thing I note in the video is that when they yell cut... AG focuses on the lightsaber and seems to look to a switch? to turn it off?
     
  3. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Can you repost the screen grab you mean. I've looked back & the only screen grabs I've put up (pg3) all have the white line 'wire' going up his sleeve & I can't find one where he's one handed.

    Sorry again which video are you talking about?
     
  4. kpax

    kpax Sr Member

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    sorry pic didn't come thru...


    video is from the AG BTS

    ag lightsaber wire.jpg
     
  5. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  6. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Looks like the entire emitter was not spinning, just the blade.
     
  7. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Dude, the wires appear the instant the saber is "ignited". Why make them white? You'd have to ask the special effects team that.

     
  8. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  9. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    WEIRD this must be a stunt where the emitter is not attached to the blade
     
  10. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  11. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    V3?

     
  12. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thats the only thing I can come up with, maybe the V2 was literally the next experiment while they were filming
     
  13. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Then it's the V3 used in the duel. A spinning emitter is not discernible in any shot.
     
  14. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Nice work Kurtyboy post #155 vid really shows the emitter face stock still & that blade whizzing round. Looks to be doing 7/8 or 1 1/4 of a rotation every 3 frames, so 7 or 10 turns / sec = 420 / 600 RPM & faster than I normally see.

    Post #158 video - this looks like the swap out of sabers M.Hamill describes in the V2 reunuion vid with Brandon. Starts with the OB1 hero pointing to camera then props guys rush in swap sabers & wire up then Alec G moves his wrist to show the blade, edit out the swap. Hence the wires magically appear.

    I've just watched it full screen frame by frame & swap is to a V2 type, it's just the emitter face is being drowned out by glare & blur. They are visible just after the blade ignites/swapped.

    White wires are a strange choice.
     
  15. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Took this screen grab - view the vid frame by frame here - look where my cursor is pointing in the screen grab, it's the same bright spot seen in the other clip & it's also stationary.

    Screenshot_2019-03-13_22-21-45.png
     
  16. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    My favourite... the spinning stick (no spinning emitter)!
     
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  17. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Boy, Youtube sure cr*ps on the video quality. It looks nothing like the file I encoded and uploaded!
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  18. kpax

    kpax Sr Member

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    Thanks for the new vid. Easier to see now on my phone.

    I wasnt doubting the wire or motor. Just the color wire choice.

    I did note that AG looks st the saber and seems to be looking for the off switch.
     
  19. kpax

    kpax Sr Member

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    Where is this from. Very nice shot.
     
  20. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  21. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Kpax that's the cantina scene right ? - out takes. I'll be doing a post on that once we're more settled over this emitter business.

    I see what you mean - eyes down (not head) & reaching back with his rt thumb. Odd because I was going to use this same clip to show that, although it's a spiny blade job, it's not plugged in - no wires & the blade does weird things ie slowly rotates one way then the other. I'll cover it in more detail later.
     
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  22. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That stickman blade material has taken a real beating !

    From your other vid. I think the material is coming off - left hand side of black stripe as we look at it. - where my cursor is.

    Screenshot_2019-03-13_22-08-18.png
    Screenshot_2019-03-13_22-08-49.png
     
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  23. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yep, I agree. holy crap, the nipple is moving.

    The interesting thing is that Brandon used a shot from the Duel to screen match the V2. That was the clamp though, which can be removed.
     
  24. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That's what makes me think it's more of a blade collar, like the ones in the Roger C archives video.
    sketch-1552050327636-png.png

     
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  25. Mara Jade's Father

    Mara Jade's Father Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    So the collar and that thin metal rod make up the V2 nipple?

    Do you think maybe the emitter was never made to be movable but since it had a thin neck and was hollow to hold the spinning mechanism, that by the time it showed up in Return of the Jedi, the emitter broke away? Then they just modified it to be a static prop, added a little tape for good measure?
     
  26. kpax

    kpax Sr Member

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    so, where is the motor for these spinners? anyone make a replica with a motor...
     
  27. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    halliwax Paging you and your motorized V2!
     
  28. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Inside the hollow aluminium cast hilt of course.

     
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  29. vadermania

    vadermania Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I'm impressed. Very cool vid's showing the static emitter and peeling scotchlite tape on the spinning blade, thanks kurtyboy! It makes more and more sense to me now that the Obi blade from the duel was a black painted balsa rod covered in scotchlite tape, leaving a thin black line to achieve the flicker when spinning.
     
  30. Dann

    Dann Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Have you never seen the "making of", where he's holding the stunt hilt, blade detached, they yell *cut!", and the effects dude runs in with the blade and shoves it down the emitter hole? (I guess one could see it another way, I haven't watched that in a long time)

    I guess I always assumed that the nipples/collars were part of the stunt blades for old Ben's saber. Then in Jedi, it became part of Luke's new hilt design, either on purpose, or on accident, to make it differ from old Ben's.

    And those are GREAT little video clips! They clearly show things that I'd really have to squint to see! Very cool, thanks for those!
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  31. Anakin Starkiller

    Anakin Starkiller Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I don't think the OWK v2 emitter was modified after anh. Since they had given up the spinning by then.

    But, I see what you're all talk about in the video.

    My guess is that the set screws that hold the emitter to the nipple might have occasionally loosed up causing the nipple to spin while the emitter got stuck in place. This might explain why sometimes it's spinning and sometimes it isn't.
     
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  32. kurtyboy

    kurtyboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I've yet to see it spinning in ANH.
     
  33. Mara Jade's Father

    Mara Jade's Father Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The more I think about and see the videos, I think the V2 is just broken.

    Don't I recall pictures of the V2 utilized in The Empire Strikes Back lightsaber practice sessions? If so, then this hilt might have had a lot of wear and tear on it over those years. A thin hollow necked hilt could easily break under the circumstances.

    I think the V2 has a nipple because the old blade mount and inner rod core was needed to help keep the emitter in place and not because they were trying to create a design element.

    They may have gone inside the hilt and tried to secure the rod within to help the emitter in place (If you have Anakin Starkillers V2 with rotating emitter, you know what I mean). But I would not be surprised if they simply relied on the tape around the neck to keep the emitter from sliding off. I guess Brandon would know exactly what held the emitter in place.

    I think the tape on the neck was there to secure it, not to keep it from rotating. I don't think anyone on set would care if it rotated. Based off the lack of continuity of props such as blasters, and hilt from movie to movie and even within the movies themselves, why would they care if an emitter rotated?
     
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  34. James Kenobi 1138

    James Kenobi 1138 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The crew member comes in holding the entire stunt saber with the blade attached, takes the Hero saber from Alec and hands him the stunt saber, connects the wires, and then goes off-screen
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  35. Dann

    Dann Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Like I said, haven't seen it in a long time.

    I seem to remember the dude fiddling with inserting the blade, though.
     
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  36. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yea - even looking at kurtyboy's video "Wires" or something, you can see he holds the hero and the wires are still hanging there. Snap to the lit stunt and the wires are plugged in and positioned differently
     
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  37. Dann

    Dann Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I wasn't saying it was a design element in ANH, I think it served the purpose of being attached to the stunt blade, and would center it in the emitter hole when it was inserted into the hilt.

    I'm saying they left it there in Jedi, and it ended up becoming part of the design of Luke's hero lightsaber, whereas Ben's hero obviously has no nipple/collar protruding.
     
  38. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The making of star wars - 36.06.

    At 37.13 we get fairly good view of Vader's barbican saber. Vafer strikes OB1's cape with a rather droopy looking blade but it stays in one peice.

    At 37.27 we see a crew member handling OB1's saber by the blade.
     
  39. matty matt

    matty matt Sr Member

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    Has this memo been discussed before? It mentions the lightsaber blades. 291D90ED-A6EC-4788-A498-3EB4A6BBE7CA.jpeg
     
  40. steven giunta

    steven giunta Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I remember reading a story about the blades breaking because they spun to fast,to stop this obi wan would keep his hand on the emitter to control how fast it would spin. Watching the videos he does keep his hand high up on the saber so I always assumed it was a true story. If that is the case then that proves the emitter is defenatly spinning. The question I would ask is when did they decide on rotoscoping the blades?maybe they still had a few scenes left to film when they scrapped the spinning blade idea.
     
  41. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    more interesting stuff in Making of Star Wars Original Trilogy Part 1 Of 2, from 11.00, Vader with shared stunt (plugged in) - also weird stuff at 12.07 A fixed blade light-broadsword vs early(?) motorised light saber ( that needs a power supply trolly...).

    but we can now see the emitter isn't spinning at all & the blade is going faster than usual.


     
  42. steven giunta

    steven giunta Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Couldn’t that be the v3?that one doesn’t have a nipple so maybe the emitter didn’t spin on that saber,just the nipple spun.it would explained why they didn’t but gafer tape on the v3.
     
  43. Mara Jade's Father

    Mara Jade's Father Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Yes, I knew you were not talking about the A New Hope hilt. I was saying that by the time of Return of the Jedi, they did what they had to to keep the hilt together. But yes, as a result, it became a design element.
     
  44. ALLEY

    ALLEY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    In offer proof that Vader’s ESB stunt blade was, indeed bent, and was colored red by a material that strongly resembles plastic. Strangest of all, the MPP variant that was used was like nothing I have seen before. The prop makers went so far as to apply labels to the saber, including (as an in-joke, no doubt) the movie’s title:

    06510368-AD31-45A3-B836-FBA0FCEF839A.jpeg
     
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  45. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I presume they hadn't even started thinking about filming yet but have functional rotating swords (plural) & are now looking at tapered round ones.

    see my ref above & link here (12.07min);




    Just watched the 1st duel sequence on this, at 11.00 min, with the sound on - very interesting blade clash sounds esp at the end where the blades slide up one another, sounds so like composite ie golf club shaft. I'll crack on with the balsa as soon as I can to find out if this sounds the same.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  46. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Which film is this from?
    curious as to the month of january, where it fits into filming - may suggest this is the first/second/third try for lightsaber tech
     
  47. matty matt

    matty matt Sr Member

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    It’s from January 1976.
     
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  48. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Thanks for the date.

    Given that they're still talking about fittings for the C3PO costume in the preceding paragraph I'm assuming they hadn't really got much done filming wise & certainly none of the early saber scenes as C3PO is or around for the hut, cantina & falcon scenes.

    Also the word 'round' is used specifically to differentiate from square/triangular, & clearly tapered round is under investigation at relatively early time.
     
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  49. Mouse Vader

    Mouse Vader Active Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I think I've found footage of a square blade/s in action !

    It's the making of star wars trilogy pt1 in my above post at the 12.07 min mark. Go through it frame by frame esp. the green & white blades. Green appears to have adjacent sides blacked while red & white has alternate sides blacked, all have the missing/extra reflective material at the ends of the blade. On the red blade you also get white light reflecting off the upper flats in some frames. Only the last 1/4 of the blade looks tapered.
    All match perfectly this quote :

    The problem of getting the Light Sabers to work fell upon
    Special Production and Mechanical Effects Supervisor
    John Stears.

    (Snip)

    The 'blade' part of the Light Saber is actually a four-sided
    blade attached to a small motor in the handle. The motor
    is used to quickly rotate the blade.

    Two sides of the blade are coated with a highly reflective
    material similar to the material used on motion picture
    screens. One of those two sides is painted four inches
    higher than the other side. When spinning, this gave the
    blade its flashing effect.


    Post #75 from; ANH Stunt Lightsaber "Blades"--Triangular??? Gil Taylor sez so...
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 6:52 AM
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  50. vadermania

    vadermania Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense to me, too.
     

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