Interesting article on new xbox

[The Terminator]

From that article: "This is good news for both Microsoft and game publishers, of course, who currently never see a penny of used game sales. And to be honest, it’s a much more equitable system than the one we have in place now."

Meh. How is that equitable? MS and Game publishers got their cut when they sold the game. It's like Ford or GM getting a cut of a used car sale. In the end, it's going to cost the consumer.

Exactly, if WE buy the damn car/game then WE should own it, not the car maker, dealership or game devloper! :facepalm

Complain all you like, but this is the direction all published media is headed.

People will simply stop complaining and above all, stop buying their crap.

 

[Solo4114]

Exactly, if WE buy the damn car/game then WE should own it, not the car maker, dealership or game devloper! :facepalm

Except it's not a car you're buying. That's precisely why the content producers WANT to switch to the streaming-only model. As long as they can maintain their licenses indefinitely (so that they don't accidentally "yoink" your content the way Kindle did early on with some books that it lost its licenses for), you have no messy notions of "But it's MY car!"

I mean, for at least several generations of consumers, that will still be true as long as you have per-unit transactions going on. E.G. I buy a license to a game for presumably indefinite use. If you do it that way, people will still think of it as "their" game, even if they can't trade it or give it to someone else (well, without giving them their account, I mean).

Subscription-based services would probably be better. Nobody complains if Spotify loses a license for a particular album and it drops out of your playlists, right? That's because you're paying for the subscription, not the music itself in some individual transaction.

People will simply stop complaining and above all, stop buying their crap.

I'm sure some will. Some will outgrow gaming altogether. But this isn't limited to just gaming. This stuff is going to end up applying to movies and TV, music, literature, all kinds of stuff. For the people who make the content, it's a hell of a lot more in their interest to simply say "We only do digital" and to have as little as possible stored with the consumer.

I'm not saying I LIKE this approach either. I mean, I'd miss being able to read a physical copy of a book. I prefer to have a physical copy of MY movie (even though I know that legally it's not "my" movie). I don't like it when a movie in my Netflix instant queue disappears for a period of time. And I'd be PISSED if a movie I bought on Amazon Prime just disappeared because they lost the license.

But that's the direction I see the entertainment industry moving as a whole. From a business perspective, it just makes sense. Enough people just won't care or are totally fine with it that this is what I think will happen over time. It centralizes control of the content, cuts down on piracy (for now), etc. And with things like the X1, it also creates yet another space in the MS ecosystem...which creates its own problems, particularly if and when we end up in licensing wars. Gamers are already used to that to a degree (e.g., want to play Metal Gear? Get a playstation. Halo? Get an Xbox.), but it still is a pain in the ass if you have to get this content on that device ONLY.

 

[The Terminator]

Subscription-based services would probably be better. Nobody complains if Spotify loses a license for a particular album and it drops out of your playlists, right? That's because you're paying for the subscription, not the music itself in some individual transaction.

One of the reasons why I never jumped on the spotify band wagon, not to mention Netflix.

 

[niennumb1]

Anyone buy a used copy of Angry Birds? No. Completely digital.

It will probably be the future of how all games are bought inevitably. When is yet to be known, but not for quite some time yet.

Personally I like physical console games. And yes, I don't like the idea of no used games at a B&M store.

 

[Lord Boron]

Anyone buy a used copy of Angry Birds? No. Completely digital.

It will probably be the future of how all games are bought inevitably. When is yet to be known, but not for quite some time yet.

Personally I like physical console games. And yes, I don't like the idea of no used games at a B&M store.

Yea, but I also only paid 99 cents for angry birds.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

Oh I promise you the system will be hacked. And probably quickly. Never underestimate hackers and jailbreakers.

 

[infymys]

Sony fires the first salvo:

 

[Wes R]

lol I like that. Sony knows what older gamers want.

 

[JD]

Anyone buy a used copy of Angry Birds? No. Completely digital.

It will probably be the future of how all games are bought inevitably. When is yet to be known, but not for quite some time yet.

Personally I like physical console games. And yes, I don't like the idea of no used games at a B&M store.

Yea, but I also only paid 99 cents for angry birds.

I don't think the price is the issue so much as you're not buying an actual physical copy of the game. A truer representation might be that I bought a Monopoly board game and can resell that if I wanted to.

 

[Jedi2016]

The used game situation has been clarified a bit. It seems that you WILL be able to sell your games at stores, and buy used games there. But the store must be wired into Microsoft's network and be able to process the sales through their systems. So when you sell a game, its "deactivated" on your account and made available to be added to another account. And, since it's all logged through MS's system, both they and the game's publisher get a cut of the resale. I'm all for the latter, since I'm in the group that thinks that developers especially are being completely shafted by the way today's used game market works, and I try to buy all my games new.

Anyway, the good news is that you can buy/sell used games. The bad news is that you'll have to do it through an "authorized retailer". So no more just selling it to your buddy or on Ebay or Craigslist, both of you will need to go into Gamestop or some place and make the exchange. You don't even have to do that when selling a gun. I'm assuming that they'll probably implement some kind of process through Xbox Live that would alleviate this, so you could just make the trade online between accounts.

Oh, and the Sony ad above is a fake, sorry. It's hilarious, but I don't see them actually saying something like that so directly.

 

[JoMamma_Smurf]

Holy crap I wish that was a real ad :lol

 

[JD]

The used game situation has been clarified a bit. It seems that you WILL be able to sell your games at stores, and buy used games there. But the store must be wired into Microsoft's network and be able to process the sales through their systems. So when you sell a game, its "deactivated" on your account and made available to be added to another account. And, since it's all logged through MS's system, both they and the game's publisher get a cut of the resale. I'm all for the latter, since I'm in the group that thinks that developers especially are being completely shafted by the way today's used game market works, and I try to buy all my games new.

Anyway, the good news is that you can buy/sell used games. The bad news is that you'll have to do it through an "authorized retailer". So no more just selling it to your buddy or on Ebay or Craigslist, both of you will need to go into Gamestop or some place and make the exchange. You don't even have to do that when selling a gun. I'm assuming that they'll probably implement some kind of process through Xbox Live that would alleviate this, so you could just make the trade online between accounts.

Oh, and the Sony ad above is a fake, sorry. It's hilarious, but I don't see them actually saying something like that so directly.

As said above... just how are game developers being "shafted" by used game sales?

This is akin to reselling something on Craigslist or eBay or whatever - be it a used car or something else and the manufacturer getting a cut of that sale. It's 'double dipping,' holding a used game for hostage and just plain greedy.

 

[Jedi2016]

As said above... just how are game developers being "shafted" by used game sales?

Gamestop is shafting them, by actively encouraging their employees to sell used copies of games to customers instead of new ones. Did you never notice that? When you go into a store to buy a just-released game, and the cashier tries to sell you the used copy instead? And when you insist on buying it new, he gets that dejected look on his face? It's because he's actually going to get into trouble if he can't sell enough used games. New game sales are actually a hit against an employee's sales record. While they're not intentionally trying to screw over the developers, it's a proven side effect of their business model, and they simply don't care, because they make more money this way.

The concept of used games themselves is not the problem. The problem is major corporations like Gamestop that capitalize on it. Microsoft is fighting Gamestop here, not your buddy who's done playing Bioshock and will sell it to you for twenty bucks.

 

[JD]

Gamestop is shafting them, by actively encouraging their employees to sell used copies of games to customers instead of new ones. Did you never notice that? When you go into a store to buy a just-released game, and the cashier tries to sell you the used copy instead? And when you insist on buying it new, he gets that dejected look on his face? It's because he's actually going to get into trouble if he can't sell enough used games. New game sales are actually a hit against an employee's sales record. While they're not intentionally trying to screw over the developers, it's a proven side effect of their business model, and they simply don't care, because they make more money this way.

The concept of used games themselves is not the problem. The problem is major corporations like Gamestop that capitalize on it. Microsoft is fighting Gamestop here, not your buddy who's done playing Bioshock and will sell it to you for twenty bucks.

You might want to avoid a used car lot. Or the classified ads. Or Craigslist. Or Supermarket bulletin boards. Or even here on the Junkyard. Quite a few folks there are capitalizing by selling used goods... without the manufacturer getting another piece of the "pie."

Excuse me if I don't feel too bad for Microsoft or gaming companies for losing a small chunk of sales due to used game sales.

 

[Scareb]

I think saying its double dipping is horse ****. By people buying used games, MS is losing on a brand new game sale which in turn means the retailer orders less and less games for restocking which means MS and the developer lose money. The customer isn't losing on selling their used games, there are just a few extra steps now. Boo freaking hoo.

 

[JD]

It is double dipping, no ifs and or buts about it - you didn't discuss how it wasn't, just that you thought it was ok to do so.

MS is not losing out on brand new game sale. A game has to purchased to be sold used - there is absolutely no guarantee that someone would even purchase a new game vs. a used game. MS and the game developer are NOT losing money - they made their money, now they want more - why? Greed.

When I purchase a used DVD, CD, Blu Ray, car, guitar, whatever - I don't have to worry about "extra steps." I think it's a stupid, unnecessary step MS is creating out of greed.

For the record, I am not a gamer. I own an XBox 360 - I play whatever the latest version of COD is online a few times a week. When I first got the system, I purchased several used games - that hardly ever got played. Any game I've played with regularity has been purchased new... and I'd wager the bulk of the latest, hot games are bought new.

These changes to used market place is not going to effect me - it's the outright double dipping greed that's just rubbed me the wrong way and will stop me from upgrading.

 

[Wes R]

Sony never really did address if they'll charge to let you use used games but the fact that it's backwards compatible won over a lot of folks. I know it won't happen but i'd laugh that at the end of the day nintendo came out on top again lol.

 

[Scareb]

When some guy buys a brand new game, then they make money. When someone buys a used game from say EB games, MS and the developer/studio/whatever don't see a penny. All the games at retailers are already purchased and paid for so yes, MS made money from those. Now since the customer didn't buy it brand new, that means that the copy that they could of bought brand new sits on the shelf. That's one less game that the retailer would have to replace when they ordered a new shipment. That all adds up and in the end could cost MS a fortune and probably does.

Now I don't entirely agree with the percentage that MS and the developer/publisher whatever gets but I do think they deserve a cut.

Also

 

[JD]

When some guy buys a brand new game, then they make money. When someone buys a used game from say EB games, MS and the developer/studio/whatever don't see a penny. All the games at retailers are already purchased and paid for so yes, MS made money from those. Now since the customer didn't buy it brand new, that means that the copy that they could of bought brand new sits on the shelf. That's one less game that the retailer would have to replace when they ordered a new shipment. That all adds up and in the end could cost MS a fortune and probably does.

Now I don't entirely agree with the percentage that MS and the developer/publisher whatever gets but I do think they deserve a cut.

Also

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

Why is it practically every other used market - cars, CDs, DVDs, houses, and just about everything else sold on eBay, Craigslist, etc. - isn't forced to give some compensation to the original manufacturer? A person could've bought a new car, a new CD, etc. but they didn't.

Of course, some folks could have opted to buy nothing at all because they feel new prices are too high and only buy used because they can afford to or feel that's a fair price. The games I've purchased used are games that I would not have bought new - period. The games I've bought new are generally new releases (and usually a COD game) that I wouldn't have been able to find used anyhow.

Let's go a little further, let's say XBox games are often donated to the Salvation Army and sold in their resale shops - now, MS is cutting into a charity's "profits" that help underprivileged - it will also hurt "Mom & Pop" type resale shops, garage sales, etc.

MS and game developers saw the used game market and wanted a cut. Not because they deserve a cut, but because they're greedy and found a way to enter that market.

But, by you're reckoning - even though practically no other manufacturer gets a cut of used sales, MS and game companies do. I don't get that. (I do get that they have a right to do so - just as I have a right to think it's total corporate greed and will not purchase it because of this).

 

[Jedi2016]

Oh, there's plenty of other reasons I won't be purchasing it. As you might have guessed from my earlier posts, whatever the system does about used games doesn't affect me in the slightest. But I'm still not buying one.