Indiana Jones - 'Real World' Props

[VonMagnum]

That's something I would be very interested in!

What is the source/provenance of the photo above?

The strange thing about Senior's watch is that it seems to be different styles in different scenes.

As we know there are the ordinary open face pocket watches as seen above, and the "hunter case" watches.

With ordinary pocket watches the stem/winder is generally at 12 o'clock.

With Hunter Case watches the stem/winder is generally at 3 o'clock with the hinge at 9 o'clock.

So, in the biplane scene Senior pulls out his watch, the stem is at 12 o'clock and he looks at the face without having to open a cover, thus it's an ordinary open face watch.

But in the sidecar scene it's clearly a gold Hunter Case watch with the stem at 3 o'clock and the hinge at 9 o'clock and Connery flipping open the cover to see the face.

It's from another thread I started that someone named rene007 replied to with information about the watch (Click HERE)

He says it's taken from a book called, "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones - The Best out of the Lucas Film Archive - By Mark Cotta and SHINJI HATA". And yes, there appears to be two different watches. The full hunter is in that scene with the motorcycle. I don't know if it's the same brand or not. Indiana Jones is not known for consistency (there's two very different Staff of Ra medallions in Raiders for goodness sake and apparently they thought no one would notice).

 

[Lightning]

Funny, I don't remember that picture in my copy of the Archives book, I'll check when I get home, unless someone else can look before then.

 

[Dr Jones Sr]

Thanks for that link, there's a clearer photo of the biplane watch where you can clearly see that it's open faced.

Thus my wondering whether it was the same watch, but that Connery didn't open it, is ruled out.

As a Cosplayer I had to decide which watch to go with, and I went with the open faced version. (For purely practical reasons; I use my pocket watch when in costume, and an open face watch is slimmer, lighter, and easier to use.)

I made a new collage showing the two versions of his watch.

 

[MaverickFerg]

Funny, I don't remember that picture in my copy of the Archives book, I'll check when I get home, unless someone else can look before then.

I just checked, and sure enough, it's in there (on page 187 in my copy). (Not that I doubted anyone, I just didn't remember it either.)

 

[Davard74]

See this thread for info on the transit: Your Indiana Jones Displays - Lets see 'em

Thanks!

 

[Trebor]

There were two Indy revolvers used in Raiders.

The main prop for overseas filming and all the actual gunfight scenes where blanks were used was a S&W Hand Ejector, 2nd Model. This was likely chambered in .455 Eley. The barrel was cut to 4" and a new front sight installed. This is the gun Indy used on the swordsman.

The prop used for the scenes filmed in the U.S., including the scene filmed in Hawaii at the start of the movie, was a the uncommon commercial version of the Model 1917 .45 ACP revolver. Most were made for the military during WWI but after the war Smith manufactured and sold a commercial version for a short time. The military revolvers greatly outnumber the commercial ones. This also had the barrel cut down to 4" and a new front sight (different from the other prop gun) applied.

Indy's hand gun in Raiders of the Lost Ark is a Smith and Wesson M1917 (two versions used in the movie; the military version has a slightly different aiming sight).

View attachment 1342446

 

[Jintosh]

I bought the 40th anniversary Raider's of the Lost Ark magazine.
If anyone wants any info or pics from it, just ask. There's a brief blurb on the 5th movie and other stuff.

 

[JamesM242]

Jintosh - thanks for the heads-up — is it worth the purchase?

 

[Jintosh]

Jintosh - thanks for the heads-up — is it worth the purchase?

Considering that it's $12.99....not really. However, I used my $10 care pass store credit and got it for $3.

I was hoping for some never before seen photos of the props. Not really much there on that count.

 

[MAKE BELIEVE]

Thanks for posting it. Was thinking of getting one but now you got me wondering...
So only articles about the 4 movies? No props, trivia, etc?
If possible pls post a few pics of the interior. Thanks

 

[Jintosh]

Hmmm....there's a lot, but it's broken down in chapters or stories. You can look over the directory and tell me if you want anything specific. They weathered the pages, which was interesting. I think it's pretty much been talked about before. It seems to just go over information that good fans already know.

 

[MAKE BELIEVE]

Thanks for your fast reply and pics. Guess you're right - there's a lot but of what we already know and have heard of over the years.
Thank you

 

[Jintosh]

86 does say it has trivia, if you want that.

 

[Liberance]

Coming back to this thread to ask about the Indy desk books. MaverickFerg listed a few in a separate thread about Indiana Jones displays a long while back, but I figured it'd be better to have the info here since that thread is enormous and less specific than this one, where information to track real world objects is better placed:

Clark, Grahame. (1957). Archaeology and Society. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.
Berton, Pierre. (1959). The Mysterious North. New York: Alfred A. Knopf.
Steward, Julian H., & Faron, Louis C. (1959). Native Peoples of South America. New York: McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc.
Strand, Paul & Aldridge, James. (1969). Living Egypt. New York: Horizon Press
Guise, Hillary. (1980). Great Victorian Engravings: A Collector's Guide. London: Astragal Books
Society of Antiquaries of London. (1936). Archaeologia or Miscellaneous Tracts Relating to Antiquity. Volume LXXXVI (86). Oxford: The Society of Antiquaries.

Now, I know that:

- Archaeologia or Miscellaneous Tracts Relating to Antiquity is featured in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
- Living Egypt and Great Victorian Engravings are featured in The Last Crusade.
- The Mysterious North and Native Peoples of South America are featured in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Not sure about Archaeology and Society. Also have other books been identified since? No one ever answered the question earlier in this thread about what's the big thick white book at the bottom of the Crystal Skull pile next to Mysterious North and Native Peoples.

 

[Ceebrupt]

Coming back to this thread to ask about the Indy desk books. MaverickFerg listed a few in a separate thread about Indiana Jones displays a long while back, but I figured it'd be better to have the info here since that thread is enormous and less specific than this one, where information to track real world objects is better placed:



Now, I know that:

- Archaeologia or Miscellaneous Tracts Relating to Antiquity is featured in Raiders of the Lost Ark.
- Living Egypt and Great Victorian Engravings are featured in The Last Crusade.
- The Mysterious North and Native Peoples of South America are featured in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Not sure about Archaeology and Society. Also have other books been identified since? No one ever answered the question earlier in this thread about what's the big thick white book at the bottom of the Crystal Skull pile next to Mysterious North and Native Peoples.

(Archaeology and Society is also from KotCS I think)

 

[Liberance]

I'm refloating this beautiful thread again because I really don't want to see it fade away, and I'm hoping it can continue to be the one place here where all information about real world Indy props can be listed together.

Over the past few months I've been focusing on completing my Indiana Jones collection by trying to snatch the few key props I'm stilling missing from those movies, plus a lot of these real world items necessary for set dressing and additional decoration. To be fair, almost everything has been covered already in previous posts, but I think there are still some extra details worth bringing up for those out there who really want to go clinical about this.

I'd like to start with the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull flashlight, which I got recently.

It's already been established that it was most likely a modern Tiger Head or Union Pacific flashlight painted to resemble an old 1950s British flashlight design (see earlier thread pages). From there, it's up to each person to decide whether to go with exactly what was used in the movie or try to find the actual vintage flashlight it was meant to depict. I prefer my displays to look like real life artifacts, so I always go for the vintage pieces.

For this particular prop, brands like Rose or ABC are usually the recommendations for a best match, but there are actually a ton of good candidates. Basically, the flashlight from the movie is just a generic design that all Hong Kong-made British flashlights resorted to one way or another during the 1950s, resulting in a lot of similar models:

ABC British Empire

Real close to the screen version, although longer and the on button doesn't come in black.

Ashflash British Empire

An exact match to the screen version, and the only vintage model I'm aware of that has the same kind of indented surface as the modern Tiger Head (at least judging by this picture). The only problem is that it might be a bit too small and very hard to find.

Ashton Flashlight

I'm not super sure if this is a different brand or just a variation of the Ashflash, but in any case it's usually listed like this. It's an exact match other than for the red button, which admittedly it's a bit of an annoyance for the eagle eyed collector.

Jockey Flashlight

Same as the Ashton, including the red button.

Stellar Flashlight

Same as the ABC, down to the white button.

Warco

This a weird variant I found that would be an exact screen match in perfect condition, but it happened to have the advertising on the side.

Unbranded

I consider this an unbranded Hong Kong flashlight, which comes to show how prevalent the design was. The button looks like an Eveready, while the rest of the flashlight looks closer to a Rose or ABC. Just throwing it here because it represents the most common variation of this flashlight, which is identical to the one in the movie except for one missing silver stripe on the front—usually, that's the most common problem when trying to replicate the look with an original.

Rose Flashlight

This one pictured here belongs to RPF Member MCINTOSH, and it's the best preserved Rose I've seen. It was already recommended here and elsewhere among other brands, but in my opinion this is the flashlight if one wants a 1950s vintage that looks just like what they were going for in the film. Not ABC, not Ashton, or anything else. The Rose Hong Kong flashlights are the right size and design, including front and back double stripes, and they always come with a button matching the rest of the body paint.

Still, if you don't want to go crazy searching the net for one of these in good condition (they are inexpensive, but can be hard to come by), I think all the other brands are also good matches and I figured it was worth bringing them to everyone's attention.

For reference and so you can see how size can vary, this is a picture of my Rose next to a similar Eveready:

Plus a couple more pics of the Rose alone:

Anyhow, hope this is helpful for someone and adds something of value to what we already knew. I've also been researching Marion's siphon and Jack Daniels whiskey bottle from Raiders, and I may follow this up with a couple more deep-dives into those two props.

 

[VonMagnum]

Ashflash British Empire

View attachment 1684773

An exact match to the screen version, and the only vintage model I'm aware of that has the same kind of indented surface as the modern Tiger Head (at least judging by this picture). The only problem is that it might be a bit too small and very hard to find.

I wouldn't say that's an exact match because it doesn't have the clear visible textured ring in the front. I'm pretty sure it's a Tiger flashlight with some modifications made to make it looks more like a 1950s flashlight. You can tell in the movie it's textured because of the odd way the lighting looks almost green/grey instead of pitch black on the side (see how the white light reflects oddly on mine below). I don't know if they added white rings or did something similar to what I did (didn't color black the ring part) as the movie isn't terribly high resolution and it's in a dark scene. I'm pretty happy with how mine came out sitting on the shelf, though.

My Prop (Tiger Based)

Movie

There's also a vintage Everyready Flashlight from the 1950s that is quite similar too, which I also have for a more authentic era flashlight.

Modified Tiger On Display:

 

[Liberance]

I wouldn't say that's an exact match because it doesn't have the clear visible textured ring in the front. I'm pretty sure it's a Tiger flashlight with some modifications made to make it looks more like a 1950s flashlight. You can tell in the movie it's textured because of the odd way the lighting looks almost green/grey instead of pitch black on the side (see how the white light reflects oddly on mine below). I don't know if they added white rings or did something similar to what I did (didn't color black the ring part) as the movie isn't terribly high resolution and it's in a dark scene. I'm pretty happy with how mine came out sitting on the shelf, though.

Yes, yours is almost certainly what they used on screen.

I just meant it as a guide for people who want a vintage flashlight. So when I say "exact match" I just mean that in relation to what Indy, as a fictional character living in 1957, is supposed to be holding in the scene based on the work the prop department did with the modern flashlight. The Ashflash is interesting to me only because, based on that one picture I was able to find of a pretty beat up model, it seems to have the same stripy surface as the Tiger but on a vintage flashlight, which makes it unique. All the others are smooth.

 

[Liberance]

Coming back here to share some findings on the Jack Daniels bottles from The Raven bar in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

After searching around on these forums and asking other fans, it seemed like the consensus is that the bottles used in the scene (there are at least 4 around the bar, including the one Marion uses to offer Toht and his men a drink) were anachronistic 1 quart/1 liter Jack Daniels bottles from sometime around the filming of the movie. This is close, but apparently not quite the case.

After re-checking the shots in the film, I got in touch with a couple of Jack Daniels collectors, including a Dutch expert who sells vintage bottles and other Jack Daniels paraphernalia who also authenticates these things internationally. Their conclusion was that the bottles featured in the film more prominently (meaning those that characters interact with) are most likely 4/5 quart or 750ml Jack Daniels bottles from the early to mid 1970s.

The reasoning goes as follows:

- The bottle isn't tall enough when seen next to the shot glasses.
- The label covers more glass surface on the side—almost reaching all the way to the back corners—as commonly seen in 750ml bottles. In 1 liter and larger bottles the label leaves a bigger side gap.
- The contents of the label are rather crammed together. Larger bottle sizes leave more air between figures and symbols.
- A book shaped logo often featured on one side and the back of bottles from the mid 1970s onward is missing.
- One small line of text is visible under the word "WHISKEY" in the front, which matches the "90 PROOF" text featured in bottles from the early 1970s.
- The overall shape of the bottle matches the medium size and time period.

Now, as of whether the bottles would have been emblazoned with imperial or metric volume units (or both!), that's hard to say but the 4/5 quart and 750ml sizes are roughly the same anyway. Raiders of the Lost Ark was filmed during what's known as the "transition period" for alcohol labeling, so Jack Daniels bottles between 1979 and 1981 (and sometimes earlier) featured both imperial and metric units on their glass. Bottles from earlier than the mid 1970s, it was often only imperial.

Of course, chances are the film bottles were replicas for safety reasons, and they might be: they seem to lack a back label, part of the label design is missing over the words "JACK DANIELS" in the front, and unit measurements are also missing on the side. Even in that case though, they were most likely replicas of early 1970s originals, and this would explain why such old bottles were being used in the summer of 1980.

Now, all that said, which bottle is the right one for you?

Well, this isn't the most important prop in the world, and one could argue it didn't even deserve such an in-depth look to begin with. But since we're here, I'd say:

- CHOICE A: any medium to large bottle from before 2011.

The most basic choice. Jack Daniels changed their bottle design for the first time in forever in 2011, visibly altering the look of the bottle. Before that, the design remained largely unchanged for like a hundred years, and to the untrained eye all the bottles looked almost the same. Any of them look good enough to pass for a Raiders bottle.

- CHOICE B: a 4/5 quart or 750ml bottle from before 1987.

Here we get a bit more accurate. The size would be the same as what Indy and Marion use, and the bottle would also be labeled "90 Proof". Jack Daniels lowered their alcohol volume after 1987. You wouldn't want Marion to be drinking weaker stuff, would you?

- CHOICE C: a 4/5 quart or 750ml "transition" bottle from the mid 1970s to the early 1980s.

If you get one of these, the label will probably be slightly more accurate to what's on screen, plus you'd have a bottle issued around the time the film was shot.

- CHOICE D: a 4/5 quart or 750ml bottle from the early to mid 1970s.

This is likely "the one" if you want something as close as possible to what's on screen. Size, design, label elements and their placement look very much the same.

The collector I spoke to (owner of this same bottle pictured below) claims there might still be minor differences and yet another bottle even closer to the film could pop up, but months of searching haven't resulted in anything yet. Should anything new come up, I'd update this post.

I went for a choice C myself, but I'll try to replace it with a D if I ever find one because my label is not an exact match. As long as they're empty, these things are cheap, however very hard to find the more specific you get (unopened vintage bottles exist but are crazy expensive). Oh, and if anyone's wondering how you can tell the year a bottle is from without checking labels and units alone, that number is usually marked on the glass at the bottom (here featured in a late 1970s transition bottle):

Last but not least, a bit of trivia.

Is there any vintage alternative to these bottles so we can own something that realistically would've been in Marion's bar back in 1936 (a la Crystal Skull flashlight)? If it's Jack Daniels, not really. Prohibition lasted much longer in Tennessee than in the rest of the US, from 1919 until 1937, during which Jack Daniels went through a bunch of trouble to keep producing their alcohol—at one point they tried moving to Louisiana, but that didn't work out well. This, in turn, means that Marion wouldn't have been able to bring those bottles all the way to Nepal in the middle of 1936. Unless, I suppose, they were older bottles from the 1910s she somehow had kept in storage all this time. I'm not much a drinker myself and I would've never heard of any of this if it weren't for Indiana Jones. But hey, this is the kind of crap you learn while prop collecting, sometimes.

 

[VonMagnum]

Coming back here to share some findings on the Jack Daniels bottles from The Raven bar in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

After searching around on these forums and asking other fans, it seemed like the consensus is that the bottles used in the scene (there are at least 4 around the bar, including the one Marion uses to offer Toht and his men a drink) were anachronistic 1 quart/1 liter Jack Daniels bottles from sometime around the filming of the movie. This is close, but apparently not quite the case.

After re-checking the shots in the film, I got in touch with a couple of Jack Daniels collectors, including a Dutch expert who sells vintage bottles and other Jack Daniels paraphernalia who also authenticates these things internationally. Their conclusion was that the bottles featured in the film more prominently (meaning those that characters interact with) are most likely 4/5 quart or 750ml Jack Daniels bottles from the early to mid 1970s.

The reasoning goes as follows:

- The bottle isn't tall enough when seen next to the shot glasses.
- The label covers more glass surface on the side—almost reaching all the way to the back corners—as commonly seen in 750ml bottles. In 1 liter and larger bottles the label leaves a bigger side gap.
- The contents of the label are rather crammed together. Larger bottle sizes leave more air between figures and symbols.
- A book shaped logo often featured on one side and the back of bottles from the mid 1970s onward is missing.
- One small line of text is visible under the word "WHISKEY" in the front, which matches the "90 PROOF" text featured in bottles from the early 1970s.
- The overall shape of the bottle matches the medium size and time period.

There are actually at least three bottles of Jack Daniels in the Raven bar in the movie. One is sitting on the bar and is broken during the gun fight.

This one looks "wider" to my eyes than the 750ml bottle as MCINTOSH275 pointed out to me in a PM. It gets broken and used to set a fire. It may be a camera aberration, however.

Another Angle

The 2nd bottle is behind the bar sitting next to a Johnny Walker bottle (there's at least two JW bottles in the scene as well. One gets broken on the table).

Another Angle View (And I've been wondering what the two bottles above them marked are as well as I don t recognize them. Anyone know?)

Yet another 3rd bottle is sitting on a table that gets overturned.

I talked about this with MCINTOSH275 in a PM a couple of years ago. I pointed out the distances of the bottle relative to the Johnny Walker bottle and thought it was the 750ml bottle (4/5 Quart). This is what I initially went with as shown in the 2nd photo (I know the JW bottle is not accurate, but is drinkable). Of course, the camera angle and depth can affect the apparent relative height (sadly they didn't post side-by-side vertical head-on shots of the bottles to compare), but the bottle does appear in some shots to be close to bottle neck length (which it's nowhere near with my 750ml side-by-side below).

750ml Jack Bottle Next to 1 Liter Johnny Walker Black (Jack Cap near base of JW Neck)

But he pointed out that the bottle sitting on the bar doesn't look like a 750ml bottle, but appears fatter at the base (1 Liter).

It was hard for me to argue with that because that's the biggest difference between the 750ml bottle and the 1 liter bottle. The 1 liter is slightly taller (I have one next to the JW bottle now and it sits closer to the neck of the bottle, but it's definitely wider looking than the 750ml bottle and to my eyes, at least, that picture looks like the 1 liter bottle. Given there are three bottles in the movie, it's also possible the one behind the bar is a 750ml and the one sitting on the bar that's broken later and used to set a fire is a 1 liter bottle. To my eyes, it looks like even in your own photo that the bottle from the movie is wider than the one you bought, but camera angles and lenses can be tricky things.

Comparisons of Johnny Walker Bottle with One Liter and 750mL Jack Bottles in my own display:

One Liter JW Bottle Vs 1 Liter Jack

1 Liter JW Verus 750mL Jack

The 750mL sits at the bottom of the neck. The 1 Liter reaches almost to the bottle cap (cork) area. The "width" is less obvious with angled camera views. The shot glasses can be deceiving as well. Notice how the same shot glasses look larger against the 1 Liter Bottle (to the top of "Tennessee" whereas the shot glasses in the 750mL picture appear to be even with "whiskey" if you imagine them sitting next to it. But they are closer to the camera than in the other photo so this sort of thing has to be taken into account as your eyes can deceive you.