Amen.
Indiana Jones (Disney+ series)
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
The completion of Indy #5 is running more than a year late. The lead star is doing it for the last time which points to some kind of handoff. Time travel is involved in the storyline. And Kennedy's track record at LFL is pretty consistent.
At this point, it would be strange if there weren't bad rumors about this movie.
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Liberance
Well-Known Member
Just would like to underline that my involvement was minimal and that all credit goes to the artists who spent hours drawing and painting those shots, and of course, Patrick. I know that a producer who worked on some Star Wars animated shows got in touch with him at some point, but I don't know if it was in an official manner, and nothing came out of it anyway. Among ourselves, ideas for an actual pitch were discussed in case something happened. Since cartoons don't usually allow for long episodes, the idea was to go back to the early 20th century serials that inspired it all in the first place, with a cliffhanger at the end of each episode and a black and white newsreel style recap at the beginning. Plot wise it had to do with the tension that Indy has going on between his professor and adventurer personas, and it dealt with European mythology, since pretty much everyone involved was European.
That said, I don't think anybody ever seriously entertained the idea that Lucasfilm would reach out and offer a bunch of unknowns the chance to make a show about a character worth millions. That's just not how things work. Ideas were thrown around because the work was done and out there in the open, it's the least you can do. But realistically, it never made much sense.
Well, I haven't seen any of those shows, so I'll just have to take your word for it. From my perspective, they just look like more of the same stuff I've already seen in the movies, but with characters sporting the bare minimum redesign to be called new, and that fan-favorite tonal shift to steer away from the children's fairytale vibe that actually makes Star Wars feel like Star Wars. So again, I wish Lucas would've remained in charge of an independent company, making his weird sequel concepts and whatever TV show he might have come up with. At least those would've felt fresh and real to me.
Starganderfish
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen Andor yet, actually.
Disney stuff is so hit-and-miss these days that I often struggle to build up the enthusiasm to watch it. After the last couple of Marvel shows (MS Marvel and She-Hulk) I need to take a break from Disney for a bit. Even Book of Boba Fett was really patchy, with some good story beats that rapidly devolved into basically Mandalorian Season 3.
Andor seemed to get decent reviews but then a lot of online reviews are barely worth the paper they're written on ...
With all respect Tread and Spyhunter, I felt the answer skirted my original point- that anyone can say or imagine anything, but until it's actually verified to be onscreen, then it's not final, canon or 'real', only rumor and speculation, no matter how much someone 'claims' it's fact relayed by 'insiders'.
To clarify: I respect that each is allowed to define spoiler for him or herself as they want, but this is such a big movie that it's impossible to avoid all potential leaks/rumors if you are at all involved in discussions around it and spend any amount of time on social media. We're pretty far out of "Luke, I am your father"- territory now. Not saying that's a good thing, quite the opposite... it's virtually impossible to be genuinely surprised by a movie or TV show these days.
(And I do agree that these things can muddle the mind so to speak. I don't like spoilers either... so I cut myself off as soon as something incontrovertibly verified starts being talked about.)
When it comes to potential plot points like the two mentioned, they are so utterly destructive to the franchise that it's a good thing for the collective fan base if they come out so fans get a chance to express their disapproval while there's still a small chance to avoid them. (And while I'm not claiming the right to decide what is personally best for any individual to know, the old "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" Mr. Spock quote comes to mind here.) It can be pretty safely stated that neither of the two rumors are likely to make long-time devoted fans shout with happy excitement if they turn out to be true. (There are, however, other rumored plot details that I have heard that I wouldn't relay or discuss, because they are of a very different, non-franchise-killing nature.)
KK has apparently been quoted saying something along the lines of "If I can't have my way, I'm burning this silliness to the ground". While I'd take the actual quote with a grain of salt, the sentiment appears to be true.
I was very surprised at how good Andor is (even though it doesn't 'feel' like classic Star Wars). It managed to do some things I though impossible for Star Wars these days- keep me on the edge of my seat and make the Empire feel dangerous again.
The only way for Disney and LFL to right the ship is to clearly go out and publicly embrace the few gleams of hope creators like Favreau have put out there. You can give fans what they want and still surprise them. They need to quash every inkling or suggestion of fans' fears that they are trying to 'destroy' all the classic heroes (even if that isn't true).
On the other hand, Abrams said Cumberbatch absolutely, definitely wasn't playing Khan in Star Trek ID, too.
I see a lot of Youtubers trying to persuade creators to go this or that way, so it's obvious that a lot of these 'rumors' are total bs to draw attention. They're of course thriving from the continued outrage that has been generated by the deconstruction of all the classic franchise heroes. (Heck, I'm fully conscious of it, but at the same time, susceptible to reacting badly to even the possibility of another classic childhood hero ruined.)
Looking at what Mangold did with Logan (which is a finely constructed movie, but one that I wish had ultimately never been made), it's not a far stretch to imagine why they'd ask him to do Indy 5. (It's also doubtful that Spielberg walked out on one of his defining career creations on a whim. The dark clouds were gathering already.)
Lightning
Master Member
Now that you mention it, the fact that Logan is the last entry in a franchise and ends with the hero dying at the end (and passing the torch to a younger lady), is all the more reason to think they will not do the exact same thing in Indy V.
Fingers crossed you're right! I really, really hope so.
(My pessimistic brain just goes to them thinking "Well, he did it successfully with Wolverine, so why not let him do it with Indy." without understanding the fundamental differences of those two characters. Especially with Spielberg walking.)
Can we at least agree, then, to either:
1. Avoid relaying unverified things as though they're fact (which, if verified, would obviously be spoilers);
- OR -
2. Be frank about them being spoilers (and maybe consider using the handy-dandy tag feature)?
I'm unfortunately not blessed with an infallible BS-detector, so when I read something that sounds precisely like a spoiler (complete with a specific accompanying audience-approval percentage), I'm liable to treat it as a spoiler.
The issue isn't so much the post's content; it's the way it was worded as insider-leaked info, not fan-imagined speculation. If people want to discuss ways in which they would or would not prefer the film to end and lead into the TV show, that's perfectly fine. Speculate away! Stating that the current ending of the film IS __________ , on the other hand; if that's not a spoiler, then I'm at a loss for what definition we're using.
I won't get into the argument that it's worth revealing for the sake of the cause; if you believe that strongly enough, then so be it. But contradicting those characterizing it as spoiler material feels like having one's cake and eating it too.
joberg
Legendary Member
Location shoots are always more difficult to manage than sound stage ones. More control over the elements, the light, etc...Cheaper in the end
(I'm sure you know that as well as myself)... especially if you have to build exotic sets and other stuff that could be CGs in post.
joberg
Legendary Member
Yes, but Indy is not the same era as Andor. Can you say "Exotic Locations?" I can, and it cost a lot to do so...
We used to have "SPOILERS" and "NO SPOILERS" tags in thread titles a while back (as well as separate threads for them). I wonder why those went away.
I see your point, but if we have to navigate around fine points of what to talk about and try to enforce how to phrase things (especially since a significant portion of the RPF memberships re non-native English speakers) it's going to kill all discussions and create a mess.
Someone is going to write something in a way that someone else misinterprets as a spoiler or "fact" and then all hell breaks loose. If we can't approach anything rumored that might be considered spoiler, it will be a minefield.
Now, I myself would certainly not (if I were invited) go to a preview screening a week before release, come back to a discussion thread and go "Hey, guess what! XX and YY dies, then the plot twists around ZZ!" because that would be an absolute spoiler and not cool.
It would benefit everyone to go into a thread like this, discussing a much-hyped topic, that there will be spoilers, even unintentional ones, unless there is a very clear "NO SPOILER" warning posted somewhere. For example, I certainly stay out of TV show threads I'm watching until I'm caught up with the latest episode.
Spielberg -
I have a feeling he left the Indy franchise for his own reasons. IIRC he also declined to direct a new Star Wars movie when Disney bought it from George.
I think Spielberg was thrown off by Indy#4. I suspect he really thought it would be a total crowd-pleaser like the old Indy movies. He was taken by surprise when the reaction to Indy#4 was so mixed, and it made him doubt his abilities. Now he is reluctant to revisit his old material anymore. (He never originally did a SW movie but it probably feels like a similar head space to him.)
I have a feeling he left the Indy franchise for his own reasons. IIRC he also declined to direct a new Star Wars movie when Disney bought it from George.
I think Spielberg was thrown off by Indy#4. I suspect he really thought it would be a total crowd-pleaser like the old Indy movies. He was taken by surprise when the reaction to Indy#4 was so mixed, and it made him doubt his abilities. Now he is reluctant to revisit his old material anymore. (He never originally did a SW movie but it probably feels like a similar head space to him.)
Didn't he decline to direct Jedi, or one of the prequels as well?
Seemed that he was onboard for Indy 5 for a while, though. I don't get all the hate for #4 aside from some dodgy CGI. It's not a classic, but there are parts of it that I love. (I need to rewatch it.)
I think what Spyhunter2k and Treadwell were referring to was just the individual-post tags, which seem to work currently - instructions here for anyone unfamiliar: BB codes
I definitely get that going overboard on what is or is not acceptable phrasing could turn a thread into a minefield, and nobody wants that. I just felt like this instance was pretty clear-cut, but maybe I'm off-base. In any case, it's worth mentioning that this thread is about the upcoming TV show which at this point we don't even know if it's a sequel or prequel, so I'm not sure readers would necessarily anticipate encountering Indy 5 spoilers.
I *think* Spielberg unofficially directed or gave input to Lucas on a specific scene in one of the Prequels, I don't recall which. It was more of him visiting George and George asking him to direct that scene while he was there. I remember reading that, but not which movie or scene it was.
I agree. Mutt's wannabe 50's lingo is cringey as all get out and the whole monkey thing was goofy, but I didn't think it was that bad. It's not hall of fame material, but it was still decent, IMO anyway.
Spielberg didn't direct ROTJ back in 1982 because of legal issues with the industry guilds.
Richard Marquand is under-credited for his impact on ROTJ. But you can't help but wonder what might ahve been if the Berg had done it. It was the 'Temple of Doom' era. Lucas & Berg were working together well at the time.
They had separate careers by the late 1990s. I don't think there was any serious talk of Spielberg directing any of the prequels.
Richard Marquand is under-credited for his impact on ROTJ. But you can't help but wonder what might ahve been if the Berg had done it. It was the 'Temple of Doom' era. Lucas & Berg were working together well at the time.
They had separate careers by the late 1990s. I don't think there was any serious talk of Spielberg directing any of the prequels.
CB2001
Master Member
I agree with you. They aren't "just movies." These films allow us to have journeys. They allow us to have an enjoyable experience. They give us heroes to aspire to and root for, as well villains to fear and dread. They give us adventures that we couldn't go on even if we wanted to. Experiences that are not able to have any other way. They show us things that could be. They can break our hearts just as much as they can give us hope. They are not "just movies". They are not "just characters". They are not "just stories." They are a part of our culture, and a part of all of us. The only people who say, "They're just movies" are the same people who are working on these franchises and have no idea why they are important. And I feel sorry for them because they more than likely have never had the feelings the rest of us have had when watching them, and more than likely never will. They aren't "just movies", and never will be "just movies." They are the dreams of all of us.
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Deep fake it.
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