CB2001
Master Member
I have to agree. The guy does state when it comes to some of the sources he cites that people should take it with a grain of salt.
Indiana Jones 5 officially announced
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
What could they release to disprove rumors of how the film ends without spoiling the ending? Hard to prove a negative without laying it bare.
Sure, the rumors may have been correct so far... but have they been correct on truly, definitively bad things? It seems the things that everyone's stressed over are the ones that haven't been proven yet.
And is there something inherently terrible about PWB?
The rumors have been a combination of facts and descriptions of tone, etc. So far, basically nothing in the rumor mill has been disproven, quite a few of the facts have been confirmed, and the tonal rumors are at least appearing true. It's understandable to guess that the remaining unconfirmed rumors will be true. After a decade of franchise-damaging movies I'm done giving Lucasfilm the benefit-of-the-doubt.
Given what else we know about the movie? And this producer? Yes, it's a bad sign to hire PWB. They probably hired her to take potshots at Indy for being outdated, not feminist enough, etc. It's not guaranteed but it's a very reasonable guess.
On paper I think it would be possible to pair Indy up with that kind of foil character and not have it be a disaster. But that would require a fair bit of restraint & respect for the Indy character. I have ZERO faith that this movie will handle it with that kind of tact. Again, Lucasfilm just doesn't get any benefit-of-the-doubt from me at this point.
VonMagnum
Sr Member
All I can say about Hollywood ruining sequels to classic films is summed up by Bill & Ted's Woke Adventure. That has to be the single most disappointing POS in the history of pieces of chit and after them claiming it wasn't woke at all. George Carlin is rolling in his grave. It even changed the most basic premise of it all that these two morons somehow save the world through their music (hence it's a COMEDY) and now it's "everyone saved the world" (A woke notion of their version of what they think is socialism/communism?) Somehow, oddly enough, it just wasn't funny.
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Bigdaddy
Master Member
Just because someone is on a movie prop forum it doesn't mean they are "ranting" about movies. Sometimes people like to discuss them rather than bellow a singular opinion into the void like some YouTubers do.
I certainly agree Doomdork won't make this fail or succeed, his only impact on the film will be whether he personally buys a ticket. I know he makes money from his channel, that coupled with his anonymity and overly emotional heartstring pulling leads me to not take his opinions seriously. I'm more inclined to believe he's having a good laugh trolling his own audience.
The "beloved" franchise line is the pop culture equivalent of Helen Lovejoy crying "PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!"
BTW you gave me a great idea for a video title on my new YouTube series, thanks!
I certainly agree Doomdork won't make this fail or succeed, his only impact on the film will be whether he personally buys a ticket. I know he makes money from his channel, that coupled with his anonymity and overly emotional heartstring pulling leads me to not take his opinions seriously. I'm more inclined to believe he's having a good laugh trolling his own audience.
The "beloved" franchise line is the pop culture equivalent of Helen Lovejoy crying "PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!"
BTW you gave me a great idea for a video title on my new YouTube series, thanks!
Bigdaddy
Master Member
This is my point
Your logical fallacy is burden of proof
You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove.
yourlogicalfallacyis.com
It's a movie about time travel.
Younger Indy features in it.
PWB is Indy's new co-star (and possible replacement).
The bad guys are Nazis with their time-travel bell thing.
If Doomcock was just getting lucky with all that guessing, then he should be picking lottery ticket numbers instead of Youtubing.
Younger Indy features in it.
PWB is Indy's new co-star (and possible replacement).
The bad guys are Nazis with their time-travel bell thing.
If Doomcock was just getting lucky with all that guessing, then he should be picking lottery ticket numbers instead of Youtubing.
Master Boda
Sr Member
I don’t think that Doomdude is getting lucky with guessing.The Red rat along with a few other studios are and have been following a cookie cutter trend where you can almost predict the movie because they are all the same.
I'll grant that time travel is a decent prediction; probably some inside knowledge. Though also, not in-and-of-itself necessarily problematic.
Young Indy is barely a stretch considering we already got him in LC plus a TV series, digital de-aging is in vogue, and Ford's advanced age was obviously going to be at the forefront of fans' concerns. Frankly, I would've been surprised if #5 didn't include young Indy. And we've known this, or at least presumed it, since nearly the first leaked set photos. Again, though - not necessarily problematic.
Was he actually the first to break the news of PWB's casting?
The bad guys being Nazis is no stretch at all for a final Indy film - it's been my guess for a hypothetical #5 ever since KotCS's Russians were met with lackluster enthusiasm, and it was similarly revealed amidst the earliest set photos. And who can argue with Indy + Nazis?
As for Die Glocke, I've yet to see confirmation that the film adheres to that specific theory. But, if we've got time travel, and we've got Nazis... then that seems to be the default in public discourse of recent years.
So I'll give points for time travel, and I suppose if he genuinely broke the news of PWB being in the film. The rest isn't lottery-level guesswork.
And again, none of these scoops are anywhere near the bombshell-level of Indy getting replaced/retconned, nor have any of them been denied.
I just don't see the logic in surmising that since a couple of medium-interest reports met with zero denial turned out to be correct, therefore a highly controversial report met with emphatic denial is probably likewise legitimately-sourced. It's possible, sure; but the latter doesn't naturally follow from the former. And if Disney/Mangold are telling the truth, then either denying the replacement/retconning claims or remaining silent is literally all they can do, short of releasing the last twenty minutes of the film.
If it was Spielberg & Lucas doing the movie, then I don't think the retcon-replacement theory would be so plausible. But it sounds totally in keeping with Kathleen Kennedy's mindset.
I say this as somebody who was originally pleased to hear that she had been put in charge of Lucasfilm a decade ago. I didn't start off with any grudge against her. She seemed like a pretty good safe choice at the time.
As for what LFL & Mangold can do now - they don't have to do anything. Doomcock is a random Youtuber spouting clickbait theories. Fans like me are going to hear it and assume the worst because Lucasfilm has made that bed for itself in the last decade.
If the theories are wrong then it will be pretty clear as soon as the movie opens. Until then, LFL & Mangold don't owe me any confirms-or-denials. And I don't owe them any benefit-of-the-doubt. They are a big corporation trying to sell me a cheap product.
I was just referring to "they could always release something tangible (in the trailers/photos/etc) that disproves a few of his rumors," that's all.
But fair enough; I can agree to disagree. Wish we all had a "dial of destiny" so we could skip ahead six months to the final outcome!
Time Travel-No. Indy has supernatural elements. Not Science Fiction
Sidekick-No. Mutt can be off somewhere. We don't need anyone new. Marcus and Henry Sr. are gone, so have Marion, Sala and Indy go on one last, non stupid, non CGI adventure.
How freaking hard is that.
My -cents worth.
Indy has supernatural elements. Not Science FictionSidekick-No.
Mutt can be off somewhere. We don't need anyone new. Marcus and Henry Sr. are gone, so have Marion, Sala and Indy go on one last, non stupid, non CGI adventure.How freaking hard is that.
My -cents worth.
Serious question, though:Time Travel-No.
Where's the line between science fiction and the supernatural/magical (essentially interchangeable terms) when it comes to time travel?
Time travel commonly appears in sci-fi, often where focus is drawn to its particular workings which are rationalized through technobabble. But I'm not sure the concept is inherently limited to the sci-fi realm.
For instance - is the Time-Turner in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban an instrument of science fiction... or a supernatural/magical device that we're simply told has a certain power if used in a certain way?
VonMagnum
Sr Member
It seems like some people get so angry about them "ruining" Indiana Jones when Crystal Skull ALREADY did. How could it possibly get any worse than that monkey with the pompadour? And that was Lucas & Spielberg ruining it. OK, we kind of expect that from Lucas these days, but not Spielberg! Whether this movie is any good at all remains to be seen, but in the mean time I have no issues making fun of it. We all know Harrison is too old for this character, but given the slop that's out there these days that's not from Marvel, well, I'll certainly go see it. Top Gun Maverick at least reminded me sequels can be done that don't suck, even in the Age of Wokedumb.
Frankly, I like Phoebe. She was totally dirty in Fleabag (if you haven't watched that series it's on Prime and it's awesome) and it was her idea (she wrote it) so the notion of her having a grandaddy complex doesn't seem too far fetched. (Although frankly, the hottest girl Indy was with (and his father) had to be the German chick from the Last Crusade...shame she fell into a chasm).
Frankly, I like Phoebe. She was totally dirty in Fleabag (if you haven't watched that series it's on Prime and it's awesome) and it was her idea (she wrote it) so the notion of her having a grandaddy complex doesn't seem too far fetched.
(Although frankly, the hottest girl Indy was with (and his father) had to be the German chick from the Last Crusade...shame she fell into a chasm).
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CopperRevan
Master Member
Most of the people "angry" about ruining Indiana Jones already agree with you that Crystal Skull was unnecessary so if you read the thread i think that will be abundantly clear. How could it get any worse? Idk, if you've sent a franchise into the grave and keep digging it up to defecate on it i think that's utterly shameful. I agree with you that this is surely the age of Wokedumb. Anything and everything that has been so called "expanded" on like the new National Treasure series and The Sequel Trilogy is filled with that ideology. People are sick of it. I think the real core of the problem is lack of creativity combined with the obsession to make as much money as they possibly can at the expense of putting any real work or thought behind it. Idleness is a breeding ground for degradation and without vision you ultimately perish. Trying to clone something will never be as good as an original creation. But hey, if people want to spend their hard earned dollars to keep perpetuating this garbage then they shouldn't be surprised when accountability comes knocking at the doors and all that's left is re-tread heaped upon re-treads.It seems like some people get so angry about them "ruining" Indiana Jones when Crystal Skull ALREADY did. How could it possibly get any worse than that monkey with the pompadour? And that was Lucas & Spielberg ruining it. OK, we kind of expect that from Lucas these days, but not Spielberg! Whether this movie is any good at all remains to be seen, but in the mean time I have no issues making fun of it. We all know Harrison is too old for this character, but given the slop that's out there these days that's not from Marvel, well, I'll certainly go see it. Top Gun Maverick at least reminded me sequels can be done that don't suck, even in the Age of Wokedumb.
Frankly, I like Phoebe. She was totally dirty in Fleabag (if you haven't watched that series it's on Prime and it's awesome) and it was her idea (she wrote it) so the notion of her having a grandaddy complex doesn't seem too far fetched.
For me Time Travel crosses that line. Indy experienced the power of God, litteraly on two seperate occasions. Supernatural. He experienced the darkness of Satan, demons, whatever name you want to use on several occasions. Many people today and through time have experienced supernatural things. As far as I know none have flown in alien spaceships, battled a Predator, or travelled through time.
I actually think this is not nuanced. It is very clear to me, but this is just my humble and always correct opinion.
BTW Mangold is at it again. I am not sure who decided trash talking the fans is a good idea. We know it worked well for The Last Jedi.
You can answer concerns without being a jerk.
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