Indiana Jones 5 officially announced
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
So, it now makes more sense why Lucasfilm has hired Youtube DeepFake artist "Shamook." They are going to be doing even more Ford face replacement than originally planned.
I imagine that "DeepFakes" are a lot less costly than believable CGI head/face replacements. I know ILM worked hard on Rogue One, but there was still a lot of uncanny valley going on there.
www.indiewire.com
...which begs the question: Why not DeepFake Indy/Ford for the whole movie? Have another actor substitute the body, but keep Indy's appearance young throughout?
For your viewing pleasure, here is Robert Pattison as the Christian Bale version of Batman:
I imagine that "DeepFakes" are a lot less costly than believable CGI head/face replacements. I know ILM worked hard on Rogue One, but there was still a lot of uncanny valley going on there.
Lucasfilm Hired the YouTuber Who Used Deepfakes to Tweak Luke Skywalker ‘Mandalorian’ VFX
A YouTuber known as Shamook has earned nearly 2 million views for his deepfake "Mandalorian" video.
www.indiewire.com
...which begs the question: Why not DeepFake Indy/Ford for the whole movie? Have another actor substitute the body, but keep Indy's appearance young throughout?
For your viewing pleasure, here is Robert Pattison as the Christian Bale version of Batman:
A lot less, while yielding better results - depending on who's doing it.
Young Robert Downey Jr in Civil War and Kurt Russell in GOTG2 were well made. But for some reason (probably a different crew), SW hasn't had much success.
A lot of effort was put into Tarkin in Rogue One. The asset was great, so was the performance. But allowing animators to add "little subtle touches", like tiny eye strains or mouth pinches for example, is what makes it look "animated". Animators LOVE doing that, believing it enhances the performance. It does for cartoon character, but does the opposite when trying to bridge that valley. Guy Henry's performance of Tarkin was spotless. It's only after the performance data was cleaned and/or "enhanced" by animators that it come off as "off". Leia's shot felt dead (see the deepfake example on YT to compare), and Luke in The Mandalorian was awkward at best.
Glad they hired this Shamook artist for future gigs. I can imagine some internal political drama when that was announced.
Back in the day I was actually threatened by an animator when we decided to switch from keyframe animation to mocap, which led to an attempted mutiny and a lot of unnecessary (and silly) drama. That animator felt mocap was going to steal jobs. He ended up resigning, the rest fell inline, and ultimately in love with the process. We couldn't mocap everything back then, so we had a clean-up crew for the mocap data, and that allowed the more reticent animators more time to keyframe their shots. Ultimately the processes blended together and careers expanded. But things got a little hot before that happened.
Sorry - went off track there...
That I don't know, but I'll guess Union contracts play a role in there.
Another question: how much do you need to pay and credit the performer playing Ford?
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...my guess is, the studio would hire a body-double, relative unknown and pay standard SAG rates plus a little extra. Ford, on the other hand, would surely get the full salary. If Ford (or any A-list $$$$ actor) is giving their permission for a younger version of themselves to be in the film, and is directly involved with the filming (reference, mo-cap, voicework, etc) I am sure their agent would demand their standard up-front acting fee plus % on the gross, same as always.
Absolutely. Would not be surprised if there were clauses in place for that already.
What I think will change in the future is the body-double's rate. As movies increasingly utilize de-aging (and aging), I believe we'll see financial conditions for those body-doubles expand.
Body doubles -
The entire role for them gets bigger in the future. Today they are re-facing Harrison Ford during fight scenes. Tomorrow it might be re-facing Tom Cruise walking down a public street because it's cheaper than closing off the location and hiring a crowd of extras.
Deepfakes -
I've read that the studios have not been using Deepfake software already because it's a lower-resolution deal. It's convincing in 720 Youtube clips. Using it for 4K theatrical footage is gonna be another ballgame.
Remember in the early days of CGI cosmetic touch-ups 20 years ago? It was prone to leaving oddly blurred/soft spots on actors. You see that kind of stuff on Deepfakes if you scrutinze them hard. They get over the uncanney valley problems better but they don't produce photorealism as well.
The entire role for them gets bigger in the future. Today they are re-facing Harrison Ford during fight scenes. Tomorrow it might be re-facing Tom Cruise walking down a public street because it's cheaper than closing off the location and hiring a crowd of extras.
Deepfakes -
I've read that the studios have not been using Deepfake software already because it's a lower-resolution deal. It's convincing in 720 Youtube clips. Using it for 4K theatrical footage is gonna be another ballgame.
Remember in the early days of CGI cosmetic touch-ups 20 years ago? It was prone to leaving oddly blurred/soft spots on actors. You see that kind of stuff on Deepfakes if you scrutinze them hard. They get over the uncanney valley problems better but they don't produce photorealism as well.
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And the Oscar for Best Body-Double Performance in a Motion Picture goes to.....
Who gets credit for playing Darth Vader (in the OT)? He was one guy strutting around in the suit, another guy in the suit doing the sword fighting, a third guy did the voice, and a 4th guy's face was shown.
Should Harrison Ford get the lone credit for playing Indy in 'Temple of Doom'? They shot film for an entire month with only Vic Armstrong (stunt double) while HF was recovering from an injury.
Some characters have been amalgamations of people for generations. The awards shows should have caught up to this a long time ago.
FFS, there has never even been an Oscar category for stunt people.
Should Harrison Ford get the lone credit for playing Indy in 'Temple of Doom'? They shot film for an entire month with only Vic Armstrong (stunt double) while HF was recovering from an injury.
Some characters have been amalgamations of people for generations. The awards shows should have caught up to this a long time ago.
FFS, there has never even been an Oscar category for stunt people.
I believe 1977 might have changed all of that.
If I remember correctly, James Earl Jones didn't even want to be credited for voicing Vader in the original film. Those were very different times.
Award shows have fallen behind, for sure. I even think the shows themselves are on their way out, or will at least need to go through major revamps to stay relevant. The idea of rich, often overpaid celebrities and producers rewarding themselves with the their own trophies is out of touch.
Agents, managers, unions, more unions, revenues, residuals, merchandise, lifetime licensing rights for an actor's likeness, worldwide distribution deals, cable tv, video tapes, the internet (among other things) have changed the game, and we'll see a lot more changes in the next decade.
I work for a major games publisher. We scan talent all the time, and even though the application is very different; the process of capturing an actor's likeness and performance for games is no different than for film.
When it comes to actors, regardless if it's for film, streaming, commercials, whatever, 2 big changes are on the way.
1. The increased use of de-aged older and deceased actors for new movies. You have a script with Steve McQueen, Ryan Gosling, Robert Shaw, Tom Holland and Judy Garland in mind? Not a problem. How about a comedy with Jim Carrey and Andy Kaufman?
The beauty of it is that there will never be any schedule conflicts - a real world problem that has often impaired a lot of projects and could have changed franchises forever. Estates are already gaining representation from agencies for exactly this.
2. Actor Designers.
I want the passion of Viola Davis with the feistiness of Bette Davis in the body of Geena Davis. Or better yet, I want a mix of Brad Pitt and Denzel Washington, with a hint of Ken Watanabe. Performance and Writing will remain key. But the appearance of a performer will be owned by Actor Designers, and eventually Directors. The games industry is already doing it now, and it's crap at best. It's simple blending of faces without any soul. But as the production pipeline for this gets more and more streamlined, we'll start seeing custom-designed faces in just about every visual field where faces are required.
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We've had plenty of late night conversations about that and other development ideas, and how that would affect us in real life. Like people getting plastic surgery to look like a designed actor, lol! People are doing that now with existing celebs, so...
The past was awesome, the future will be interesting.
I was being facetious about the Oscars. Action adventure films rarely get nominated much less win, and there are so many popular films that wouldn't even make the cut so I wasn't at all being serious about Harrison or his double. The Academy is just another avenue for Hollywood to pat itself on the back and has little relevance to anyone outside that world so it's hard to put much stock into it as an outsider.
Pretty much.
It's normal for an industry to have an internal organization that gives regular awards to members who excel.
But in Hollywood it gets carried out as a televised event. They are awarding people who are celebrities. The choices of winners is purely artistic opinions, and the televised show adds commercial motives to the choices. It's a poop show.
It's normal for an industry to have an internal organization that gives regular awards to members who excel.
But in Hollywood it gets carried out as a televised event. They are awarding people who are celebrities. The choices of winners is purely artistic opinions, and the televised show adds commercial motives to the choices. It's a poop show.
Riceball
Master Member
The Oscars have gotten even worse now that they've added criteria for nomination for the top awards that have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the performance, script, directing, etc. but how "representative" your cast and production crew are. That's definitely not going to do much to encourage people who've since tuned out of the Oscars to go back.
That's why the ratings (and their credibility) has been tanking for the last few years.
It's about politics now.
Hollywood has forgotten that we go to the movies or immerse ourselves in shows - even award shows - to escape politics. To take a break from the real world. Not to be beaten over the head with it.
It's about politics now.
Hollywood has forgotten that we go to the movies or immerse ourselves in shows - even award shows - to escape politics. To take a break from the real world. Not to be beaten over the head with it.
Even genres that aren't considered "escapist" are still very much so because whether people want to admit it or not we subconciously project ourselves into a story if the script or acting is done well. It doesn't matter if the story is about an archeologist who searches for supernatural artifacts, or if it's a drama period piece, or it's a romance or some goofy comedy. If I can empathize with the characters and the plot then I can escape reality for a few hours. That's the beauty of fiction.
If I want a lecture, I'll attend one or watch one online. I don't need it coming from a movie screen and if there is a specific message behind a piece of fiction, at least execute it with some tact so that it's not obvious I'm being talked down to.
If I want a lecture, I'll attend one or watch one online. I don't need it coming from a movie screen and if there is a specific message behind a piece of fiction, at least execute it with some tact so that it's not obvious I'm being talked down to.
Yep. Yep.
We're all getting there
He still looked awesome in Crystal Skull. But as fit as he's been throughout his career, I think this is it.
I hope Mangold can make this work.
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