Han Solo Holster - Screen Accurate Pattern

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by Crazylegsmurphy, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. Wailonskydog

    Wailonskydog Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Right - curved needle helps a lot. Also, you can punch the holes on the belt side first then use an diamond awl to break through the pouch side after gluing. Or you could even punch the holes on both the pouch and belt first then make sure they're aligned when gluing.

    I like using diamond chisels to pre-punch my holes so that they are all even and equidistant. And then saddle stitch, which is a two needle sewing technique.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-5-6mm-...a5cd1b75b:m:myPCdDuHPJglxTkKfYoNooQ:rk:3:pf:0
     
  2. phillbarron

    phillbarron Jr Member

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    Yeah, I used those hole punches and saddle stitching on my holster, I'm just a bit baffled by working with a needle inside such a tiny pouch. It looks to me like there wouldn't be enough room to pull the needle through. I can't quite visualise how even a curved needle wold manoeuvre in there ... but I'm happy to admit I have (almost) no experience and am basically clueless.

    Clueless, but curious!
     
  3. Crazylegsmurphy

    Crazylegsmurphy Active Member

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    As far as I know, there are no images of the back. I may be wrong and of course if there is evidence to the contrary, I would change my mind.

    In this case, I think glue is more than satisifactory for what it is. These are props, not wearable holsters that are intended for everyday use. They need to last only as long as production and can be, and often were repaired multiple times on set.

    There may be additional reenforcement on the pouches. You are more than welcome to add in additional stitching or rivets, but for the pattern I am trying very hard to not introduce elements that I can't verify. We also know that this belt was used in Episode V, so the greeblies were not permanently attached. They may have been glued or taped in place for filming though.
     
  4. Wailonskydog

    Wailonskydog Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    attachment.jpg image.jpg

    Here are a couple photos I found where you can kind of see some of the back. In the second photo you can see how the holster attaches to the leg piece.

    In the first photo you see the back side of the pouch next to the droid caller. Doesn't look like there are any rivets there. Not conclusive about stitching.


    For the guide, definitely make sure to recommend considerably scratching up/sanding down the grain leather surfaces to be glued so they get proper adhesion.

    And also - just great work in general putting all this together. I'm super excited to build my own!
     
  5. Uncharted Leather

    Uncharted Leather Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    There is proof that rivets were used on the pouch near the droid caller on the ESB holster rig that has sewn pouches. They are used to hold the back of the flap in place while the stitches hold the sides down. You can see the rivet in this photo from one of the traveling costume exhibits.


    han-solo-holster-screen-accurate-pattern-img_0856-jpg-430560d1422164979.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  6. Crazylegsmurphy

    Crazylegsmurphy Active Member

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    I have those as well and it is frustrating that the pouches were not turned just a bit more to answer the question. I also couldn't see rivets or stitching.

    Good call on the scratching of the leather. I'll be sure to add it into the pattern book.

    Thanks!
     
  7. old willy

    old willy New Member

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    Well now,

    I have not seen that behind the scenes photo before, so that is amazing to me. Thanks so much for posting it here.

    I am not sure what it clears up or doesn't, I agree with monsieur Murphy about wishing it was turned just a bit more. However we can see some of the back and that helps. I still believe that on ESB the belt seems to be a mix and match affair depending on the shooting location or costume and the traveling roadshow rig is not really that accurate and could have been created just for the exhibit, but that is just my own opinion.

    Keep up the great work folks !
     
  8. Sabs

    Sabs Member

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    I agree that the glue alone seems unlikely. Rivets are fast and strong and like the photo above shows, were used on the lid of the pouch.

    I propose that they were riveted but with a long flat “washer” like part or plate to keep the edge sharp. Although if the pouches were wet moulded first it may not have been needed. But the glue alone probably would have failed over the course of filming. While yes many belts are glued, they are just flat on flat and not pertruding with a weight on it in an action movie.

    I think if you glue it on and sit down in it, it’s coming off as soon as it touches anything.

    Sabs
     
    Davy Jones likes this.
  9. Sabs

    Sabs Member

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  10. Crazylegsmurphy

    Crazylegsmurphy Active Member

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    EDIT

    I should reserve my own speculation until further evidence is presented. I am being reminded that I perhaps need to control my own bias and not allow myself to fool myself into thinking I have all the answers. The best I can do is discuss what I can observe. For now, I will cautiously reserve my opinion until I have more info.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  11. PrometheusUnchained

    PrometheusUnchained New Member

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    I am new to this forum (in fact, this is my first post) And .... indeed ... Prop making altogether: I do have a couple of ideas however.

    I have gone through this forum from beginning to end (except for the videos ... unfortunately I live in the backwoods of america, and I don't have the capacity to stream videos like the rest of the world, I have missed every single bit of what is presented in them, and I actually hate not being able to see it ... the pictures, the proof of things and the ideas ... perhaps someone could take notes and save the pictures to put in this forum?). I think that the major differences you are all seeing in the pictures is due to a couple of things. 1) Different belts: What if there were multiple belts made by several different prop people? Each had a different idea of how it should be made, a large supply of leather, greeblies to spare. Perhaps there was a belt made each different way? Yes I know you can point at the holster and say "but we can see the marks and the same discolorations on the holster, it cant be different belts."

    We all know that the holster detaches! Why go to the trouble or doing a holster that was sewn and molded and fit the gun(s?) perfectly when it could be reattached to different belts for different needs? Perhaps a clasp breaks, or a greeblie falls out ... change the belt and go. This would solve the problem of why picture a looks one way, and picture b looks another.

    2) All of you seem to dismiss the idea that the leather went into slots and was glued or fastened on the back in favor of your favorite theory. To me (with some, but limited leather working experience) this seems likely. You could slightly wet the leather and pull the extra through and glue it on over a wider flush area, giving strength to the glue that you wouldn't have in such a limited space otherwise. I would resemble both the one strip theory with the ends being tucked in under, as well as giving the wet formed look. It would also tuck under a little making it look like a separate part being glued or riveted on. If I was making a quick belt that had to hold together for a while but under rush .. I think this is the way I would do it.

    Either way it is something to consider about each of these options .... that both sides may be right, or that all sides may be wrong ... just my two cents.

    This forum has really caught my attention, and I was intrigued enough to join the forum as a whole. I appreciate the MAJOR amount of work that has gone into this from everyone involved ... I hope I didn't step on any toes or come off as an idiot. Thanks to all of you for lettign me join in on the fun.

    Prometheus
     
  12. old willy

    old willy New Member

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    Well now, that is an idea I had not considered. :)
    Yes, I think we all know the rig is separate pieces :rolleyes: . I still think that is a problem for the folks who want the version for a particular movie, especially later movies where it seems to be even more mix and match. But your ANH type construction theory is a very good one and I for one am going to try a mock up of it, it would solve the attachment issues- needs to be strong but no fasteners showing, and it would also be easy (er) to do :) (y).....hmmmmm
    Excellent observation, I can't recall anybody else putting it forth ( if someone did and I forgot, my apologies but this has been going on for a long time ;) )
     
  13. PrometheusUnchained

    PrometheusUnchained New Member

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    I am aware that you all know the holster is detachable, I just think you (as a group) tend to think of it being separate only as far as the build goes, as opposed to potential reasons that you are having difficulties tracking down how something is made. I was working under the hypothesis that the reasons that different pictures show different building techniques was potentially that both were true .... on different belt builds.

    As for the slot and tongue idea, I saw this as a possibility very early on reading this forum ... however, someone else did mention the possibility

    "Is this a crazy thought...or could the pouches be fed through slits in the belt and glued on the rear? :confused

    Egon, Oct 14, 2018"

    I just went a little more in depth on the thought.

    Prometheus
     
  14. jddurst

    jddurst Active Member

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    OK, looks like it is time for me to weigh in. I have recently gone on a western holster and cartridge belt binge due to Westworld, and I can see several techniques employed on the Solo belt.

    First off, I gotta say that film props are not ever simply glued or patched together in a shoddy manor because they are 'just costumes' get that notion out of your heads. If something you built falls apart on set, it will be costing tens of thousand of dollars a minute to fix it, and it has to look exactly like it did before the failure. So you build stuff to last and hope the actor doesn't find a way to either break it or hurt themselves with it, because if there is a way, they'll find it. (that's also why you always have a back-up) With that out of the way...

    It looks to me like some of the pieces are stand-alone and some are, in fact, 'chained' together. The cylinder looks like it is by itself, and the two (possibly all three) rectangular pieces behind it appear to me to be one piece of leather sewn on like a cartridge belt with a tab extending off the face that is turned back to create the bottom. (it could even have been attached first and folded under, but I can show why that might not be necessary)

    Sewing inside of tight spaces is possible in large part due to the fact that leather is flexible and if you have already pricked your holes and are determined, you can get a needle in and out of there.

    I don't think they employed slots in the main belt, it just seems like too much unnecessary effort and it would mean you are cutting away 90% of the width of the belt to fit the strips through. I can show you what that looks like, because it is a method used on some styles of cartridge belts.

    I have been away from this forum for close to 10 years, so I'm not completely up on the photo posting SOPs, but I'll happily upload some pics of my various cartridge belt tests, as well as the finished product (Ed Harris' rig) if someone can clue me into the best way to do it. It looks like I have 'my media' somewhere, I'm going to post this then go off in search of it, hopefully I'll be back soon with some pics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  15. jddurst

    jddurst Active Member

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    OK, here we go, here is an example of large 'pouches' (with the 20ga. shells) next to a separate run of loops (.45s), you can see the sides of the two pieces, and a small gap between the pieces.
    Next we zoom in on the bottom of the shell pouches, you can see that although the stitching is on the outside of the belt, the bottoms protrude downward to hide it (I'm using 2-3 oz leather, about 2mm thick)
    IMG_4506.JPG
    And this is a test piece I did to get my dimensions where you can see the different ways the bottom of the pouch approaches the belt:
    IMG_4510.JPG
    Here is the back of the belt showing the continuous saddle stitch between loops (the diagonal is hidden by the loop):
    IMG_4507.JPG
    And, because one wears things like pistol holsters and Boye knives off of these things, whomever built the rig for the Man in Black did not run the loops all the way to near the end, but did extend the strip of leather anyway, and it looks like this (seen that anywhere recently?)(like between rectangular pouch #2 and #3?):
    IMG_4508.JPG
    Finally, here is a shot of a slot and rivet cartridge belt (the rivets are only at the ends and the leather is free to be pulled through the slots, presumably to be adjustable for different calibers):
    IMG_4509.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  16. jddurst

    jddurst Active Member

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    Well, Crazylegs, I've gone back and watched some of your livestreams and I'm starting to see the point for the argument that the ANH pouches are glued on (specifically the lighter color leather that is visible where the two pieces might be pulling apart). If they were never filled with greeblies, I suppose they could survive with only cement, although I usually hammer my glue joints, and that would require fitting the pouch over some type of anvil. Not a deal breaker, but a little more complexity in the process.

    I would still like to take a crack at sewing up a test of my theory, that they are actually sewn on, possibly with a dark thread and a higher tpi (like 8 or 12/inch). Since I cut out my leather with a laser cutter, it is easy for me to make small modifications and multiple attempts at a piece. I suppose we can start a conversation in PMs, because I'd like the page of your PDF with the dimensions on it to use as a starting point to build the .ai file I'll use with the laser. It goes without saying that I'm happy to share all my findings and files.
     
  17. Obi Dar

    Obi Dar New Member

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    I thought that it was time to jump in and say hello. My name is Darren, and I run Arctic Arsenal Props. I'm known to some.

    I have been working with leather for about 8 years, and I have started working on a Solo Rig. Thanks to everyone in this thread for your contributions. It has been a big help. I'll post pics as I have them to share.
     
  18. PrometheusUnchained

    PrometheusUnchained New Member

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    Any word on how close we might be to a e-book, or a series of pdf or patterns? I would watch the videos, but my net is far too slow for that.

    Thanks.
     

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