Han Solo Holster - Screen Accurate Pattern

MastahBlastah

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I only say this because looking at the photos, the "look" of everything is right, but those pants don't look like brushed denim to me and there is that dimple in the mandarin collar that I have never seen before.
In the video, the costume designer specifically states (at 2:02) that they had to have every fabric's texture, color, etc. approved by Lucasfilm.
 

Egon

Well-Known Member
In the video, the costume designer specifically states (at 2:02) that they had to have every fabric's texture, color, etc. approved by Lucasfilm.
Yes, they certainly did. What I am questioning is whether the pieces Han wears in ANH still exist to refer to when creating the replicas for the show. Or do they have records of fabric swatches and notes from production? It's just general curiosity to me when it comes to the Original Trilogy items because I'd love to know what still exists and get accurate reference.
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
While they did have access to the Lucas archives, I am not sure that this would really benefit us with ANH Han's belt and holster. Do any of these items even exist anymore - even in the archives, let alone a private collection?

I only say this because looking at the photos, the "look" of everything is right, but those pants don't look like brushed denim to me and there is that dimple in the mandarin collar that I have never seen before.

I agree with what you're saying. I also don't believe the actual ANH holster exists, or if it does, it is in the form of different parts on the ESB version. What I think the archives might have that we don't is high resolution photos and/or notes/patterns for the originals.

As for the look (just talking holster here), it is very close, but not quite.

For example, we know the ANH version didn't have sewn pouches. The disk seems to be based on (or is) the inaccurate versions available now. The "Y" piece is not the correct shape, and there are a few other minor things.



So should we really trust that their belt is accurate? Or is it just as accurate as they can get?
In my opinion, no.

It is not 100% accurate to any of the movies really. As I mentioned above, it is a hybrid of ANH and ESB/ROTJ (I'll go more into that in a moment). This holster is what you would expect to be made by someone who has definitely done a lot research (Archives or personal), but hasn't delved into it far enough to know the subtle differences between the different versions.

Based on the limited photos, it does look accurate in some areas, and not in others. For me, I am actually more interested in the Greeblies. Any time I see ANH versions out there (especially when someone claims to have access to the archives) I gain hope that it will shed some light on what they actually are.

This was the main question I asked them when I contacted them, because if they had access to high res photos of the Greeblies, it might help solving that mystery.



Also, is that a Todd's belt on his pants??

To come back to what I was saying above. This holster may very well be an "off the shelf" version by one of the well known vendors online. I have spent so much time staring at what others have done, that I can confidently pick out the creator of any specific holster. This may be a purchased holster, and I actually suspect it may be. I am just waiting for a few photos to pop up and if I can spot the signature tells, I will know who made it.

My initial thought is that it isn't a Todd's holster. With all due respect, Todd has a few things he doesn't reproduce accurately, and they're fairly easy to spot. This is why I am hoping to send someone to the exhibit. It may result in a dead end, but it is worth a try.


Edit - the buckles look really accurate though. check out the bevel on the edges and how they match this photo
I agree, that is a very well done buckle.



Yes, they certainly did. What I am questioning is whether the pieces Han wears in ANH still exist to refer to when creating the replicas for the show. Or do they have records of fabric swatches and notes from production? It's just general curiosity to me when it comes to the Original Trilogy items because I'd love to know what still exists and get accurate reference.

I think when it comes to ANH, the chances of anything Han Solo still existing is slim to none. I doubt they created more than a handful of holsters, and even suspect they may have only created one, maybe two based on the budget and the number of times it is actually in the film.

They may still have notes and patterns though. That kind of stuff more than likely got filed away somewhere in the archives, but even then... I suspect the person who made the original holster simply had a concept sketch to go on, and then scratched notes on paper to remember measurements. It is a relatively recent thing to record, or have detailed records of costumes. In 1977, it was very thrown together. The thought of creating detailed notes and patterns, or saving the old costumes was not like it is today.
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Smugglers Holster
v 1.0

Updates


I suppose I should give a bit of an update to where things are.


In a word....close.


Since I have been getting limited replies to my posts, I decided it was best to record my progress, but spend more time creating, than updating. I realize that many of these posts don't really have any "answers", but there are times I get stuck and just need a few heads to bounce ideas off of.

Either way, things are going well.

I have been able to work through some of the major hangups, so things are going much smoother now.


In a few days, I think I'll be ready to reveal some nice updates for you guys to look over. As I said a long time ago, my goal now is to get these patterns complete, so when Ep. 7 photos start showing up, I can be on the front lines to alter the existing patterns ASAP, so you guys are ready for the release.

Stay tuned.
 

ataru72ita

Well-Known Member
Probably it's because You've gone so further than anyone on the RPF that nobody feels like can actually help You!
Just my two cents!

Regards,

Alberto
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Smugglers Holster
v 1.0

Crazy Carbs


Here is a bit of an odd one for you guys to ponder.

Today in the mail another Revell V8 Greeblie arrived for me. The strange thing is, it isn't the same as the one I got in the kit.




Now, these difference are very subtle, but differences none the less.

Some of the differences are where the rounded part on the right-top connects. The body where the circle is (front) is wider, and the ridge on the front has a different shape.

There are about five other differences that I won't bore you with, I just wanted you guys to know there are different versions out there.


Accuracy?

So, which one is more accurate to the original?


Well, here is where we have to assume a few things. First, we have to assume the Greeblie in the display versions are the originals. Unless I can get hold of someone who has an original 1970's version to compare to, we have to assume the display version is correct.

What that means is that the version I purchased in the kit is not entirely accurate. The one that just arrived, is.

Unfortunately, my pattern measurements are based off off the other one, so I will go back and rework that to reflect the differences.


What does this all mean?

Well, should you sweat it if you get a slightly different version? That of course, it up to you.

For those who are interested, I can provide a list of all the differences, and I will completely understand if you want to know. I personally will be using the most recent Greeblie for my holster, but had I not known there were different versions, or had I not been able to get hold of another one, I would have had about a 2% care. The differences are that small.

:)
 
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Egon

Well-Known Member
My initial thought is that it isn't a Todd's holster. With all due respect, Todd has a few things he doesn't reproduce accurately, and they're fairly easy to spot. This is why I am hoping to send someone to the exhibit. It may result in a dead end, but it is worth a try.

They may still have notes and patterns though. That kind of stuff more than likely got filed away somewhere in the archives, but even then... I suspect the person who made the original holster simply had a concept sketch to go on, and then scratched notes on paper to remember measurements. It is a relatively recent thing to record, or have detailed records of costumes. In 1977, it was very thrown together. The thought of creating detailed notes and patterns, or saving the old costumes was not like it is today.
Sorry, I meant the belt on the trousers, the black three hole two prong belt. Looks like a todd's to me. Todd's holster, while inaccurate, is perfectly in line with his goal - well made fairly accurate product that is above all else, wearable. I own one and couldnt be happier for the price.

But I will stop that derail...sorry

In the new Star Wars costumes book, it lists Bapty as being the producer of the blaster and holster. Perhaps Bapty still has some useful info? Or may even be in possession of the original belt?
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Sorry, I meant the belt on the trousers, the black three hole two prong belt. Looks like a todd's to me. Todd's holster, while inaccurate, is perfectly in line with his goal - well made fairly accurate product that is above all else, wearable. I own one and couldnt be happier for the price.

But I will stop that derail...sorry

In the new Star Wars costumes book, it lists Bapty as being the producer of the blaster and holster. Perhaps Bapty still has some useful info? Or may even be in possession of the original belt?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Todd's isn't a good product, or isn't worth buying. I have a few of Todd's products myself and they are great, but for me personally, my goal is to come within the 95%+ range for accuracy. Also, keep in mind that this pattern will be available to everyone, so those that are currently selling holsters are more than welcome to use my reasrch in any way they like. Anyway...


Im going to go see if I can track down Bapty, good idea.


EDIT:

I was thinking a bit more about this. I just wanted to voice a concern I have. A few times in this (and my other) thread I have discussed the offerings of another vendor, which often times results in people getting a bit defensive. I wanted to say that my intention was not so sound smug, condescending, or anything like that. I don't fault or judge anyone for the work they've done, and I understand that not everyone has the same goals and ridiculous standards I do.

I understand that it can be a bit of a touchy subject. Trying to reference my findings to the products offered can often lead to people feeling defensive. My intention is simply to point out the differences, and admittedly I am probably not as tactful as I should be at times.

I hope that everyone reading this understands that my goal is to improve this holster for everyone. I also hope that people understand that my critique of others work is nothing personal.

Hope that clears a few things up.
 
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Egon

Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't think anyone thinks that. This is a hobby that is built on continuous research and improvement. However, I do think that stuff can get personal at times, do I don't blame you for trying to clear that up.

Excited for updates!
 

WyoWilliam

New Member
Huh. I've never seen that last photo before. I can't believe I never noticed that the belt buckle clips are not attached with the dome-cap rivets that we see in ESB and ROTJ. I haven't read every post on this thread, but are there any theories? Epoxy maybe?
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Huh. I've never seen that last photo before. I can't believe I never noticed that the belt buckle clips are not attached with the dome-cap rivets that we see in ESB and ROTJ. I haven't read every post on this thread, but are there any theories? Epoxy maybe?
Strange, eh!?

After some discussion, it was determined that it was probably attached with the rivets on the inside. So, something like two rivets were welded to the buckles, then the leather was placed on top, and the rivets pounded down. It could have been glue though.

Edit: It was in post #41

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=232226&page=2&p=3550755&viewfull=1#post3550755
 
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Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Huh. I've never seen that last photo before. I can't believe I never noticed that the belt buckle clips are not attached with the dome-cap rivets that we see in ESB and ROTJ. I haven't read every post on this thread, but are there any theories? Epoxy maybe?

Grrrr!!!

You made me go back and take another look at the hook! :D

I was searching through my reference photos and I came across this:



What I find interesting is that little sliver of silver color on the other side of the hook.

I find it odd that, if this was riveted to the hook, we would see that little bit of color. It for sure isn't the bend in the hook, because that is further under the buckle.

It makes me wonder if instead of rivets through the leather, if the leather was riveted onto a separate piece, and then that piece was welded to the front of the buckle. I designed something like that in the previous post, but dismissed it for a simpler design.

I was fairly certain, until I saw this photo.

Thoughts?
 

WyoWilliam

New Member
Yeah - it definitely looks as though there is a back plate to the buckle clip in this photo. Weird. The only other option I could think of would be inward facing teeth that would grab the leather if the two halves were clamped together. Seems overly complicated, and I'm not sure how that would work from a design perspective, but it's the only other thing I can think of.
Either that, or we're seeing things and it is simply a reflection of a rubbed-shiny part of the leather.

Hmmmm... I wonder whatever happened to that original holster?
 

nick daring

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Maybe the back plate is just acting like a washer for the rivets to hold on to?

Weld rivets onto front plate, feed that through the leather and back plate and hammer flat.
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Maybe the back plate is just acting like a washer for the rivets to hold on to?

Weld rivets onto front plate, feed that through the leather and back plate and hammer flat.

Here is what is currently in my pattern as an option.




You can see the two main hooks, with two smaller parts that can be riveted on as you described. Below, I had initially thought that Chicago screws could be used, but after much research I don't think it is possible to find screws that are small enough, or strong enough to allow for this.

The discovery of what looks to be an extra backing piece on the image in my last post seems like pretty strong evidence that there is something there. The question is now, whether it is riveted using the method above?
 

Crazylegsmurphy

Active Member
Smugglers Holster
V 1.0


Holsters



Well, I'm narrowing in on the last few parts of this holster, and...the reason why I procrastinated on this part is because I assumed it might be one of the most difficult. I wasn't wrong. :D


Round Peg, Square Hole


It is common knowledge that there are various versions of the blaster. There is the "Greedo Killer", the ESB Stunt, the ROTJ version, and more. The problem is that while all these blasters exist, I'm not entirely sure the holsters made were designed to fit them all.

For example, look at the following.






This, unless I am mistaken is the ESB Stunt version.

If you look at where it sits in the holster, you will see that the leather is shaped to it sits nicely in that groove. If however, you try and put the ESB hero version in there, it appears as though it doesn't fit.

In an attempt to prove myself wrong, I looked at as many screen grabs as I could. I was unable to determine whether the hero versions were ever placed into this shaped holster. The same can be said for the ANH and the ROTJ versions as well.




One Blaster, One Purpose


This made me wonder if the original holsters were made to fit the stunt versions and nothing else. In a way this would make sense. A hero version of the blasters would have typically been used only in scenes in which they were shown close up, or in promotional photos. The stunt/alternative versions would most likely have been the blasters that would have stayed in the holster for all the other shots, as it wouldn't have mattered if they got knocked around.

Unfortunately this creates a bit of a conundrum.

Because I don't have access to every version of the blaster, and until the current run of ESB parts are ready, I only have a blank Denix to work from. This creates a challenge because while I am able to get the overall size right, I am unable to cross reference my actual blaster against the photos.

To try and solve this issue, months ago I built an illustrator version of the ESB blaster from scratch. When I got my digital callipers, I double checked to make sure everything was correct. It was a nice idea, but I have been unable to find any reference in which the ESB blaster is actually in the holster.


So...before this gets overly complicated, this is the problem.

Unless I spend a lot of time creating Illustrator replicas of each version, I will be unable to properly recreate a screen accurate holster, or alternative versions that will fit each blaster.

I'm a bit stumped.


Blasted


At this point I have a few options.

1. I can created versions of each blaster. This will definitely set this project back a while as I will have to delve into the exact measurements for each one. I will then need to basically invent holster patterns (that didn't actually exist) to account for the different blasters.

2. I can concentrate on the screen accurate versions only, even if they don't fit all the different versions.

3. I can recruit your help. Let me explain.

I know that many of you out there have spent a lot of time creating various versions of the blasters. If I could get you to either send me a straight on shot of the blaster where it would sit in the leather, or better yet, create a custom pattern for just that area, and then scan/photograph it for me (with measurements) I could attempt to create versions that would work for as many versions as I get.

4. I could create the screen accurate patterns, and leave it up to you guys to adjust as needed for your particular blasters.


As always, I am interested to hear your thoughts.
 
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ataru72ita

Well-Known Member
Smugglers Holster
V 1.0


Holsters



Well, I'm narrowing in on the last few parts of this holster, and...the reason why I procrastinated on this part is because I assumed it might be one of the most difficult. I wasn't wrong. :D


Round Peg, Square Hole


It is common knowledge that there are various versions of the blaster. There is the "Greedo Killer", the ESB Stunt, the ROTJ version, and more. The problem is that while all these blasters exist, I'm not entirely sure the holsters made were designed to fit them all.

For example, look at the following.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VXA0ZRa8xqk/VWfNhzo9d0I/AAAAAAAAATE/oPji6MkjSGs/w554-h984-no/Smugglers-Holster-Ep5-Holster.jpg



This, unless I am mistaken is the ESB Stunt version.

If you look at where it sits in the holster, you will see that the leather is shaped to it sits nicely in that groove. If however, you try and put the ESB hero version in there, it appears as though it doesn't fit.

In an attempt to prove myself wrong, I looked at as many screen grabs as I could. I was unable to determine whether the hero versions were ever placed into this shaped holster. The same can be said for the ANH and the ROTJ versions as well.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PmiP1O2eX94/VWfdkqNzqDI/AAAAAAAAATc/-SUfwgebLU8/w929-h700-no/Smugglers-Holster-Ep4-Holster.png

One Blaster, One Purpose


This made me wonder if the original holsters were made to fit the stunt versions and nothing else. In a way this would make sense. A hero version of the blasters would have typically been used only in scenes in which they were shown close up, or in promotional photos. The stunt/alternative versions would most likely have been the blasters that would have stayed in the holster for all the other shots, as it wouldn't have mattered if they got knocked around.

Unfortunately this creates a bit of a conundrum.

Because I don't have access to every version of the blaster, and until the current run of ESB parts are ready, I only have a blank Denix to work from. This creates a challenge because while I am able to get the overall size right, I am unable to cross reference my actual blaster against the photos.

To try and solve this issue, months ago I built an illustrator version of the ESB blaster from scratch. When I got my digital callipers, I double checked to make sure everything was correct. It was a nice idea, but I have been unable to find any reference in which the ESB blaster is actually in the holster.


So...before this gets overly complicated, this is the problem.

Unless I spend a lot of time creating Illustrator replicas of each version, I will be unable to properly recreate a screen accurate holster, or alternative versions that will fit each blaster.

I'm a bit stumped.


Blasted


At this point I have a few options.

1. I can created versions of each blaster. This will definitely set this project back a while as I will have to delve into the exact measurements for each one. I will then need to basically invent holster patterns (that didn't actually exist) to account for the different blasters.

2. I can concentrate on the screen accurate versions only, even if they don't fit all the different versions.

3. I can recruit your help. Let me explain.

I know that many of you out there have spent a lot of time creating various versions of the blasters. If I could get you to either send me a straight on shot of the blaster where it would sit in the leather, or better yet, create a custom pattern for just that area, and then scan/photograph it for me (with measurements) I could attempt to create versions that would work for as many versions as I get.

4. I could create the screen accurate patterns, and leave it up to you guys to adjust as needed for your particular blasters.


As always, I am interested to hear your thoughts.
When it comes to Han blasters the right person to get to is Scottjua! He's a real expert! He'll help You for sure!

Regards,

Alberto
 
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