Halliwax's weird V3 theory

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by halliwax, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. SethS

    SethS Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,691
    It's just that one pic-- where he's holding it up an the pommel is wonky that it looks like tape to me. Everywhere else, it seems painty.
     
  2. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    yeeaaaa buddy!
     
  3. ALLEY

    ALLEY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,720
    Sharing....

    I started moving forward with my “ROTJ Production Version V3” this weekend.

    Putting my money where my mouth is, here is the affect I achieved on the booster by using gaffer tape applied over the black paint and ripping it off quickly...

    952C9185-8B3E-4DB8-B14F-B86B82ED4341.jpeg

    7AC4F3D1-7415-40D5-A964-E42D2D20F877.jpeg

    Opinions?

    3F44FB98-04F3-4C3C-9821-C57F37D58989.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  4. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    Love it!!
     
    Obiflex and roygilsing like this.
  5. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    I like it. looks like it happened on a much smaller scale than I anticipated, but maybe they had more time between paint cure, or something
     
  6. SethS

    SethS Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,691
    Looks great. Totally makes me believe the tape theory. If tape was applied we'd have no idea how long between the paint and the tape, and when the tape was removed. Right away at the end of production, or years later for ESB?

    One hole in the tape theory, there's no reason it would be on the V3 and from the resin copy (assuming it was painted to match) the V3 has a similar booster.
     
  7. ALLEY

    ALLEY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,720
    The paint had only been dry for a few hours when I did this.

    The V2/V3 booster paint would have been dry for a looong time before they ripped the tape off.

    The V3 appears to exhibit a comparatively smaller amount of paint remanants on the booster (my interpretation anyway) so I wanted more metal showing on my V3 booster, compared to the V2.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  8. russellsch

    russellsch Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,891
    It's definitely a new way of "weathering" a prop. I like it.
     
  9. SethS

    SethS Master Member

    Trophy Points:
    2,691
    Yeah I've never wanted a V3 until now. That looks great ALLEY
     
  10. PoopaPapaPalps

    PoopaPapaPalps Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,565
    EDIT: * aren't swears but flan-ge is now considered a rude word.

    In the Ewok village, you can still see a band of paint going around the emitter too. From Elstree to Yuma, this thing took some damage.

    Booster wouldn't have had a problem falling out either, I'll elaborate further in the post but briefly, though with one grub screw, the way it was machined, it would take immense effort to pull it out once secured in place. Wonky it may be when installed, but pulled out by gravity alone with the screw in place? Wouldn't happen.

    V2 is smaller than the V3, dimensionally. Barring nipple, length would be roughly the same but the V3 is fairly more robust. The V3 is a near raw cast, straight from the sand mold, only just cleaned up on the surface. I wager it was only just sanded and the clamp area and emitter plate were the only parts to get some lathing work. I matched the photos to scale when I was working on my new buck and the difference between buck/raw cast/V3 were minimal.

    Results also mimicked reality when lathing the emitters as that weird bevel around the edges illusion was replicated when I was facing the emitter plates. I can't explain why it happens but it just naturally does. There's a photo in the new "Archives" book during the speeder bike chop sequence that shows the V3 had this very detail, too (unless it was just a rigged V2).

    I don't know if you went as far as hollowing out your stunt cast but while working with mine, the furthest I could machine was part way into the grenade area before the cast was bucking and kicking against the lathe tool as it tapered and moved further off center.

    And considering how heavy Hamill remembers these things to be, I'm of a mind from experience and some corroboration that the upper half of the hilts were near solid. Considering how the pommels were made, (speculation on my part but evidence backs this up) but I believe they were taken from other spare casts and machined with a portion of the bottom of the booster to make the * that would be used to secure into the booster with a grub screw. The motor essentially sits on top of the pommel's * with enough cavity space for whatever method the production used to secure the dueling rod to the motor, in just the cavity hollowed out for the motor (Brandon also specifies that the innards of the V2 has a chamber to house the gag motor; it's not completely hollow).

    I am striving for period accuracy as best as I can to reproduce the results and, considering everything up until now, like everything else with these Stunts, I don't think it was a very sophisticated process. It may be as simple as a hole in the bottom of the dueling rod that slid over the axle/shaft stemming out of the top of the motor and they latched it together with another grub screw. Similarly, they could've just used some sorta custom fitting, also held together with grub screws, to attach both dueling rod and motor shaft together.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
    SethS, roygilsing and thd9791 like this.
  11. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,515
    Chris, I agree with the hollowing out theory. There was no reason to make the grip section as hollow as could possibly be. Just had to get the motor in the booster/clamp section and run a rod through the grips. I also heard that the internal machining was sloppy. Wouldn’t machine that close to a far away edge if it was sloppy.

    I believe the inner diameters on Dan’s first couple V2 runs were probably closer in this respect.
     
    SethS and halliwax like this.
  12. steven giunta

    steven giunta Active Member

    Trophy Points:
    412
    I was reading through this thread and I think there are some great theories.although I think sometimes we think about it to much and a good story trumps logic.last year we all saw that picture of Hamill and Lucas with a graflex on the sandstorm set.so right away everybody starts thinking that the v2 was brought in at last minute when somebody mentioned luke shouldn’t have the graflex. Now that sounds logical,and is a great story to tell. I tell people all the time when I explain the history of the v2. But are we thinking to much?look at all the films,did they ever care what prop was used?sometimes they even switched sabers from one shot to the next in the same scene. So is it plausible that someone did say “wait luke doesn’t have the graflex anymore”sure it is,I hope it is cause it makes a great story.but in truth it could be anything,they did stuff that makes no sense at all now but at the time it made sense to them cause they Probly thought who is ever gonna notice luke saber had a gold neck In this scene and it’s black during that scene.we are thinking about it way more then the prop guys did.i think all of these theories are great but we can not forget that they did not think anyone would be looking at these movies in hi def,examining every frame. These were the guys who thought no one would ever notice that the tool that random rebel is using is actually a lightsaber.
     
    roygilsing and halliwax like this.
  13. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    2,515
    I forgot to add, for my replica I am looking into having an aluminum “plug” with a hole drilled down the center made to fill in the grip section and give this thing some weight back.
     
    Dann likes this.
  14. ALLEY

    ALLEY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,720
    I only apply the possibility (pun intended) of gaffers tape having be used regarding the the booster specifically—because of the abuse suffered by these props, as you point out.

    As you point out, the rest of the prop did suffer paint loss as they were abused and used on set. That being the case...how else can we explain that despite the loss of paint everywhere else in the prop, the booster remained uniformly black

    Here...

    5E7713E1-A539-4299-AAD3-FFC20CD73E23.jpeg

    And still remained black through Empire...

    F599FFE4-FFCB-44F3-84CE-DDC0241CC75C.jpeg

    ...and still remained black through the beginning of filming ROTJ....

    3FFA8F59-4A60-4406-B248-BA8E8CBC5E66.jpeg
    5E371BEB-92C5-4CCC-AAED-A23F52F131E1.jpeg

    But despite staying black after all that time and abuse, within weeks of filming, it suddenly looks like this...

    3448A335-E1FC-40ED-869E-0A29DA6A8734.jpeg

    I also don’t buy the “flaky paint” theory too much. The paint used appears to be very durable. The prop has suffered very little additional paint loss since filming ceased in 1982. If we truly had “flaky paint”, that would easily come off, I would expect the booster to be nearly naked right now. In the contrary, it looks nearly identical to the way it looked at the end of filming.

    97B597C4-F3BD-4688-A47A-413427B10075.jpeg

    We also have clear evidence of gaffers tape having been wrapped on other saber props—and on at least the V2 specifically, for other reasons (the neck still sports it).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
    thd9791 likes this.
  15. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    Now your making me work...

    Don’t be fooled by that Ewok picture.. there’s less black then you realize

    IMG_3971.jpg

    And another with the emperor

    IMG_4429.jpg

    And even less paint by the time they are done with the throne room..

    IMG_1017.jpg

    IF the paint is on there like a rock... and doesn’t flake off? How do we explain the bare booster here?

    IMG_5276.jpg

    Tight grips on these props... so tight super glued tracks have been ripped off MPPs and graflexs...

    I think paint holds less then superglue does

    I feel this debate has gone on long enough with me

    No disrespect to anyone involved, I love this. But I’m not convinced, and will not be convinced that tape until better evidence..


    If Guinness held that prop away from himself 1 more inch I don’t think we would be having this debate..

    But I’m tapping out defending the painted booster...

    My belief still stands..

    - paint has chipped from handling...

    For some reason it won’t let me post more photos give me a second
     
  16. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    I want to introduce my friend Bruce... he is a framing gun

    IMG_7527.jpg

    You can see here this side has less paint from rubbing up against me leg and hip when hanging on my belt

    IMG_7526.jpg

    IMG_7525.jpg

    IMG_7524.jpg

    I’ve had more paint flake off in my hands on this tool then any other.. and even more paint flake off in the winter when wearing gloves...

    I hook it to my belt and the paint stains my jumpsuit orange from rubbing back and forth on my leg and this is a newer tool.. with newer technology in paint..

    I will not believe for one minute paint will not flake off the v2/v3 by handling...

    Another cool note is see how grey the aluminum is? Kinda matches the booster, I believe because these parts are cast aluminum the machines to tolerance
     
    Dann, scottjua and thd9791 like this.
  17. ALLEY

    ALLEY Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    1,720
    I agree; we will never know for sure regarding the tape/no tape debate unless some photos, buried at the archives, taken at the time of shooting, surface.

    More importantly—I am really looking forward to seeing your hilt with what appears to be a motor installed.
     
    halliwax likes this.
  18. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    I can guarantee there’s more ANH v2/v3 pictures in the archive... dying for the day their surface...
     
  19. russellsch

    russellsch Sr Member

    Trophy Points:
    1,891
    ROAD TRIP!!!! :)

    Let's get to the archives!
     
  20. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    Been working on this for months. No luck...
     
    russellsch likes this.
  21. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    In my question to find square wood blades. I found the video with the v3 losing its rod

    I think the emitter stayed on the hilt.. this is driving me nuts...

    IMG_7602.jpg
     
    thd9791 likes this.
  22. thd9791

    thd9791 Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    3,001
    yea, wait, unless the drive shaft (right term?) is a stem. If the blade is slipped over, and set screwed to the shaft, it would leave the spinning emitter and rod attached to the saber.
     
    halliwax likes this.
  23. halliwax

    halliwax Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

    Trophy Points:
    4,485
    I’m so confused over this * thing... I’ve made my spinning emitter on the v2 as simple as I could

    Maybe the real one is setup more complicated? I don’t know

    Maybe one day tom we’ll have more evidence.. or a new story. I would love to talk with these guys who built them

    Stuff like this reminds me of the Bb8 builders club

    Before they publicly showed his guts and how he worked guys were building them

    It was so complicated, what a night mare of mechanics involved

    Then the creators showed how he worked and it was the simplest thing...

    I wonder if the v2 and v3 are just simple
     
    thd9791 likes this.

Share This Page