greenguy
Well-Known Member
Kal, it is indeed the angle of the wings. Over the course of 3 seasons the insignia changes A LOT, just little things here and there after the biggest change from the 1st to 2nd season.
scottusernames I missed that auction, because I've never seen one by someone claiming to be Madalone. However, so many of these fakes have been sold and resold I lost track a long time ago. Are those the only photo's you have of the fake?
My own saga with the fakes started in 1999. When I created my TGAH website back in 1998, I barely knew any html. Met a fellow fan who did, and he created a lot of my original site, while I provided the content. In 1999, a suit came up for sale on ebay. That's the first picture below, and to my eye it appears to be an actual costume from the show. My website pal asked if I thought it was real, and I said yes and he bid, and won. While he was waiting for the suit to be shipped, I contacted the seller to ask if he had any other GAH related pieces. He claimed to have already sold a belt buckle, but he had an insignia & cape. Like an idiot, I bought both. My friends suit arrived first, when he sent me the pics my heart sank...it was NOT the suit from the auction photos. As the insignias were hand made and sewn, no two are exactly alike. If you see one from episode to episode that looks identical, it's because its either the same tunic, or the insignia was taken off an old tunic, and put on a new one. The insignia on the costume sent to my friend did NOT look like the one in the sellers photo, and not exactly like anything seen onscreen in regards to design, construction, and appearance in photo's or on film. Then I noticed the zippers in the sleeves, no suit appearing on screen ever had zippers in the sleeves. (see photos 2,3, and 4) My friend contacted the seller, who refused to take it back ( I discovered much later the seller had already sold it once before, and was forced to take it back and return the dough) and he claimed you could see the zippers on screen very easily which just is not true. Then my own package arrived, and sure enough my insignia was the same as the one on the fake costume. Looked brand new, not almost 20 years old and the gray portion of the insignia was a felt like material which is not correct. Real 2nd & 3rd season insignias use a t shirt like cloth, not felt. The cape looked perfect too, smelled new and looks just like the one pictured in scottusernames photo's. My insignia is pictured with the sketch, sorry no photos of the cape. Its upstairs and the wife is asleep. Seller refused to refund me, word did spread about the fakes and Jet Beetle discussed it on this forum years ago. It was also on the Original Prop Blog and so were many of the fake Superman costumes the seller also sold.
I have no idea how many people that own fakes, or have sold fakes actually know the costume IS fake. I accuse no one of knowingly displaying a fake as screen used, or misleading a buyer, except for the guy that sold the fakes originally. See pics 6, 7, and 8. The other way to spot a fake is that the tunic and pants do not "cling" or "hang" on the body or mannequin the same way the real suit does.
Photo 9 compares one 2nd season insignia to 2 3rd season versions, and 10 is a close up of the real one in photo 9, you can see the big loops that make up the red within the symbol. 11 is my fake inserted over a real screen used in private hands. The screen used suit looked old, even smelled old, not like the fakes. Not as if I've had a chance to smell multiple fake costumes from TGAH...LOL..or multiple screen used for that matter.
Some of the 3rd season insignias are the worst, look cheaply made with wrinkled gray cloth. Some used for specific shots in which it could damaged are really bad, horrible stitching etc.
Kal, about the first season symbol being white or gray. I think I told you, I go back and forth. Dorleac's color sketch shows gray, (see pic below) but it sure looks white onscreen. I can think of one exception, the scene in Don't mess Around With Jim when Beck pulls the tunic out of the black case it looks a little gray. That insignia was the original design, and assembled the same way it was in the 1st season. Or it was just a 1st season tunic the production still had around.
Pic 13 is a grab from Don't Mess Around With Jim, the episode was filmed early in the 2nd season. Look at the little "edges" I've marked with the arrows. What is that? This appears to be a 1st season style symbol, and in certain shots of that first year you can make out these in other episodes. Kal, did you notice on the suit sketch the notation "Stitch Witchery Emblem on"? I have never used Stitch Witchery, but I know it's a tape like material. Do you think for the original insignias the costumers used this material not only to attach the patch to the tunic, but to also attach the symbol to the circle? I've never seen those edges on any other style insignia, except the more sharper corners 1st season version. It also looks gray, not white.
Pics 14 and 15 are massive close ups showing the style of the embroidery. Is that the correct term? The style on the screen used suit (and can be seen in some pictures of Katt) is very poofy, kinda like loops. Its as if I had a needle when I went to visit the screen used suit, I could have slipped that needle through the "loops". All the insignias on the fake suits has very flat, or flush embroidery. A needle is NOT going to be stuck through one of those unless you rip a thread out.
To my knowledge the fakes are no longer produced, and the best guess is maybe between 6 and 12 were sold. Very hard to tell since some fakes have been sold more than once to unsuspecting buyers. If this info helps just one person not to lose their hard earned scratch on something they believe is screen used, when it's not, I will be happy about that.
scottusernames I missed that auction, because I've never seen one by someone claiming to be Madalone. However, so many of these fakes have been sold and resold I lost track a long time ago. Are those the only photo's you have of the fake?
My own saga with the fakes started in 1999. When I created my TGAH website back in 1998, I barely knew any html. Met a fellow fan who did, and he created a lot of my original site, while I provided the content. In 1999, a suit came up for sale on ebay. That's the first picture below, and to my eye it appears to be an actual costume from the show. My website pal asked if I thought it was real, and I said yes and he bid, and won. While he was waiting for the suit to be shipped, I contacted the seller to ask if he had any other GAH related pieces. He claimed to have already sold a belt buckle, but he had an insignia & cape. Like an idiot, I bought both. My friends suit arrived first, when he sent me the pics my heart sank...it was NOT the suit from the auction photos. As the insignias were hand made and sewn, no two are exactly alike. If you see one from episode to episode that looks identical, it's because its either the same tunic, or the insignia was taken off an old tunic, and put on a new one. The insignia on the costume sent to my friend did NOT look like the one in the sellers photo, and not exactly like anything seen onscreen in regards to design, construction, and appearance in photo's or on film. Then I noticed the zippers in the sleeves, no suit appearing on screen ever had zippers in the sleeves. (see photos 2,3, and 4) My friend contacted the seller, who refused to take it back ( I discovered much later the seller had already sold it once before, and was forced to take it back and return the dough) and he claimed you could see the zippers on screen very easily which just is not true. Then my own package arrived, and sure enough my insignia was the same as the one on the fake costume. Looked brand new, not almost 20 years old and the gray portion of the insignia was a felt like material which is not correct. Real 2nd & 3rd season insignias use a t shirt like cloth, not felt. The cape looked perfect too, smelled new and looks just like the one pictured in scottusernames photo's. My insignia is pictured with the sketch, sorry no photos of the cape. Its upstairs and the wife is asleep. Seller refused to refund me, word did spread about the fakes and Jet Beetle discussed it on this forum years ago. It was also on the Original Prop Blog and so were many of the fake Superman costumes the seller also sold.
I have no idea how many people that own fakes, or have sold fakes actually know the costume IS fake. I accuse no one of knowingly displaying a fake as screen used, or misleading a buyer, except for the guy that sold the fakes originally. See pics 6, 7, and 8. The other way to spot a fake is that the tunic and pants do not "cling" or "hang" on the body or mannequin the same way the real suit does.
Photo 9 compares one 2nd season insignia to 2 3rd season versions, and 10 is a close up of the real one in photo 9, you can see the big loops that make up the red within the symbol. 11 is my fake inserted over a real screen used in private hands. The screen used suit looked old, even smelled old, not like the fakes. Not as if I've had a chance to smell multiple fake costumes from TGAH...LOL..or multiple screen used for that matter.
Some of the 3rd season insignias are the worst, look cheaply made with wrinkled gray cloth. Some used for specific shots in which it could damaged are really bad, horrible stitching etc.
Kal, about the first season symbol being white or gray. I think I told you, I go back and forth. Dorleac's color sketch shows gray, (see pic below) but it sure looks white onscreen. I can think of one exception, the scene in Don't mess Around With Jim when Beck pulls the tunic out of the black case it looks a little gray. That insignia was the original design, and assembled the same way it was in the 1st season. Or it was just a 1st season tunic the production still had around.
Pic 13 is a grab from Don't Mess Around With Jim, the episode was filmed early in the 2nd season. Look at the little "edges" I've marked with the arrows. What is that? This appears to be a 1st season style symbol, and in certain shots of that first year you can make out these in other episodes. Kal, did you notice on the suit sketch the notation "Stitch Witchery Emblem on"? I have never used Stitch Witchery, but I know it's a tape like material. Do you think for the original insignias the costumers used this material not only to attach the patch to the tunic, but to also attach the symbol to the circle? I've never seen those edges on any other style insignia, except the more sharper corners 1st season version. It also looks gray, not white.
Pics 14 and 15 are massive close ups showing the style of the embroidery. Is that the correct term? The style on the screen used suit (and can be seen in some pictures of Katt) is very poofy, kinda like loops. Its as if I had a needle when I went to visit the screen used suit, I could have slipped that needle through the "loops". All the insignias on the fake suits has very flat, or flush embroidery. A needle is NOT going to be stuck through one of those unless you rip a thread out.
To my knowledge the fakes are no longer produced, and the best guess is maybe between 6 and 12 were sold. Very hard to tell since some fakes have been sold more than once to unsuspecting buyers. If this info helps just one person not to lose their hard earned scratch on something they believe is screen used, when it's not, I will be happy about that.
Attachments
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SUIT AUCTION.jpg -
THE FAKE SUIT 2.jpg -
THE FAKE SUIT 3 w ARROWS.jpg -
THE FAKE SUIT 5 w ARROW.jpg -
FAKE INSIGNIA w ARROWS.jpg -
HALL OF HEROES FAKE 3 w ARROWS.jpg -
HALL OF HEROES FAKE 14 w ARROWS.jpg -
ANOTHER FAKE SUIT.jpg -
INSIGNIA COMPARE LARGE.jpg -
REAL INSIGNIA.jpg -
FAKE vs REAL.jpg -
Jean-Pierre-Dorleac-Original-Logo-large.jpg -
2ND SEASON w ARROWS.jpg -
REAL INSIGNIA CLOSE.jpg -
FAKE INSIGNIA CLOSE.jpg
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My son never got into GAH, although he used to call me everyday (his mom and I had divorced) when he would see me pop up on the FX Network in the suit, drove my ex crazy to see me on TV. "Dad...I just saw you again on TV, Moms so mad..gotta go" I had sent a video to the FX show Backchat, they aired the video and then cut me into 2 Backchat promos that ran for months.
