Found! Obi-Wan Kenobi ANH Lightsaber Emitter

[Macklin]

I'm not sure how much light this sheds, but it's from an article in the first issue of Bantha Tracks:

"The problem of getting the Light Sabers to work fell upon Special Production and Mechanical Effects Supervisor John Stears. Production Illustrator Ralph McQuarrie gave Stears a sketch of what the Light Sabers should look like when in use, and, based on that, he made them work."

It goes on to give the dimensions as 7" x 1" :lol and tells a bit about the spinning blades.

Could Stears have been given non-functional props to incorporate with spinning mechanisms or did he rummage through spare parts and build them himself?

Patrick

 

[lonepigeon]

I've always wondered about the collaboration between the ANH prop dept, art dept, set decorators and Bapty. There are many part sources that span all the groups.
T-track being a big one (blasters and lightsabers)
Imperial discs another (costumes: from hats and belt buckles, to TIE pilot buckets, to multiple blasters)
This emitter brings up a new crossover as Brandon has said.

As for the jet in the background, a scale model for forced perspective isn't a bad idea either. There as a fair section of Mos Eisley streets on the stage, it doesn't seem like they'd have that much space at Elstree. The half Millennium Falcon comes to mind since the stage wasn't big enough for the whole thing. Having a jet sitting that far back seems like a big waste of space.
It could just be a much smaller craft, nothing like what an RR engine could have come out of.
If they had gone with a matte painting I think it would be more elaborate with distant buildings.

Restraining bolt - thanks for the caps.
If I'm right that's a large bolt in the center (button, allen head) with washer. The suction cup would be something like this:
http://www.groomerschoice.com/prod-desc_re...uction-cup.html
A simple design that would actually stick to a droid and not leave any damaging marks.
The metal ring may or may not be another "balance pipe" but the general size and similarity in form is there.

 

[lonepigeon]

Stears' team is where the aluminum cast Obi-Wan stunt saber came from.
They made a wooden master and sent that out for casting. The guy that sold the saber on ebay was from Stears' team.
They also sent out other parts for casting like the little blue flipper arms on the front of R2.

 

[Gary Weaver II]

Whoah... you learn something new everyday...

R2's front arms were cast aluminum? I didn't know that... verrry interesting.

-Gary

 

[BAlinger15]

Gary-

Email me and I'll send you the R2 info I have from when I met/interviewed Brian Johnson.

I also have some nice pics of him under construction...

-B

 

[Pilot]

I know it's been said a hundred times already, but I have to say it myself...this is some absolutely stunning detective work.

I'm not a saber afficianado, but I have always eagerly followed the sleuthing threads like this one. I'm amazed and more than a little awed by the new findings.

 

[Gigatron]

Hey Guys,
I was just doing some cap work for another thread, so I was slow stepping through the cantina scene. Not only do they have IG88 heads in there, they have entire combustion chambers. You can see the flanges where the emitters were attached when they were still nothing more than inter connectors.

It's pretty cool all the stuff you see when you know what you're looking for.

-Fred

 

[lonepigeon]

Yep, nearly the who setup behind the bar is combustion chamber parts.


BIG UPDATE.....

OK, turns out there's ANOTHER VARIATION of the balance pipe I showed earlier.
Guess what?
This one has a BEVELED and RECESSED ring of holes. (The bevel is different than others so far, but I'll let pics explain later)
It also has a wide backside bevel on the flange so I guess we were pretty close before.
There's no lip on the ring, which I thought it was looking like there could be on the prop.

Now unfortunately this correct one belongs to a sectioned engine that the museum is currently restoring. I can at least get high res pics of it plus measurements.
All the variations lie in the top flanged section.
It may be possible to get the correct one on loan from the museum with a bunch of paperwork. I'm thinking this might not be necessary though if I can get the 80% correct one plus very detailed info on the correct one to make necessary design changes.

 

[phase pistol]

I'm just jazzed to be here, man.

 

[vaderdarth]

Nice update Chris... Can't wait to see pics.

Dave

 

[Dewy]

Originally posted by lonepigeon@Oct 8 2005, 04:48 PM
Yep, nearly the who setup behind the bar is combustion chamber parts.


BIG UPDATE.....

OK, turns out there's ANOTHER VARIATION of the balance pipe I showed earlier.
Guess what?
This one has a BEVELED and RECESSED ring of holes. (The bevel is different than others so far, but I'll let pics explain later)
It also has a wide backside bevel on the flange so I guess we were pretty close before.
There's no lip on the ring, which I thought it was looking like there could be on the prop.

Now unfortunately this correct one belongs to a sectioned engine that the museum is currently restoring. I can at least get high res pics of it plus measurements.
All the variations lie in the top flanged section.
It may be possible to get the correct one on loan from the museum with a bunch of paperwork. I'm thinking this might not be necessary though if I can get the 80% correct one plus very detailed info on the correct one to make necessary design changes.

[snapback]1092579[/snapback]​

Proof again that you (along with many others) are invaluable to this hobby. I am so excited to finally be able to purchase an accurate replica emitter (hopefully sometime semi-soon), and now I will soon be able to buy an accurate sink knob, and maybe even an accurate gear. Who would've thought the last piece we have left to find would be the gear... Almost anti-conclusive when you consider just how elusive the emitter was. I just can't get over how far this hobby has come. I hope you'll have the high res pictures (when you get them) on your website or available to those who want them....

Thanks again. This thread is truly historical.

 

[Serafino]

Fantastic news Chris..

What can we do to thank this guy for his help? He has been a huge help to us and I'd like to see him well rewarded.

If you can think of something to gift him with I'm in to contribute.

 

[Dewy]

Originally posted by Serafino@Oct 8 2005, 06:30 PM
Fantastic news Chris..

What can we do to thank this guy for his help?  He has been a huge help to us and I'd like to see him well rewarded.

If you can think of something to gift him with I'm in to contribute.

[snapback]1092616[/snapback]​

I think for starters we could have everyone who wants to write a sentence or two in thanks and Chris could somehow present this to him... maybe with a replica emitter on a nice replica of the saber to show what he contributed too? I'd certainly be willing to contribute some money towards a saber and I'm sure enough other people would be to build him a real nice saber...

 

[Ghost Host]

How about dumping some silicone on the accurate part while on loan? Measurements and pics are excellent and nessissary, but I would love an actual copy of the real thing.

 

[lonepigeon]

Casting the correct one could be an option. He's unsure if it can be loaned out, but he can ask. He actually brought it up as they've loaned things out before. One reason they might say "no" is because they are in the process of restoring the Derwent now. The guy in charge of the restoration could "veto" any loan because it would slow down the work.

I need to know if enough people actually want me to borrow the correct one.
My source has already said he will take calipers to it and high res pics (plus I will have the almost correct one on hand).
Personally, borrowing a piece from the museum and handing it off to someone else makes me nervous. I would at least want them to co-sign for it. I also don't think casting the thing is the way to go. A steel replica would be best.

We're actually VERY lucky this one piece was not attached to the engine it belongs to in mid restoration. They've had the engine for at least 30 years, but this is the first time it's been apart and the other 8 correct balance pipes are installed. Had we not seen it, we would still be searching blind for a possible correct version.

I think now is the time for Marcus to check the scrap Derwent 8.
If they will let him take a few parts off I believe he can check if the emitters are correct or not. I have some reference to help with that. I will also get more info from my source about what tools would be needed and make sure it can be done.
All 9 IG-88 heads in a Derwent are the same, so forget the earlier possibility that a couple might be different. Two of the three MK8 cutaways I've seen had the correct heads. My guy is going to look for RAF modification paperwork to try and figure out a way to confirm if an engine has the correct heads.
There is no guarantee about the emitter. We have two MK8 examples and the balance pipes in each were different.

I will do photos tomorrow. I need to redo the side by side comparisons and make a diagram to explain where they are located from outside the combustion chamber.

The bad news about the correct balance pipe is we have NO PART NUMBER (at least not yet).
There was no number on the piece itself. We could try using the other part number and have any part supplier open up the boxes and visually inspect if they are correct.

My guy will still be helping to find part sources. He has calls out to people, plus he will still be checking all paperwork the museum has to turn up anything else useful (maybe a part number). Additional part identification is still ongoing as well (gear etc.).

This guy has been absolutely invaluable to our search for this part- even more than you realize since I don't post everything he has said. I have received many detailed reports from him. He's been looking at SW pics on his own. He even thought of the restraining bolts before I mentioned them. He's gone WAY above and beyond anything we could have hoped for.

Serafino - I've already been thinking of how to reward him. He has modestly asked for only a replica emitter so that he "may one day make his own Obi-Wan lightsaber". I absolutely think he deserves a FULL SABER and I'd be happy if anyone here wants to chip in to help provide that for him. He has also expressed that he'd like to see the museum benefit from this rather than himself. I was thinking maybe a part of each emitter sold could go to the museum. Like all museums they are low on funds and rely on donations.

Much more later.

 

[Darth Lars]

Perhaps you could make a quick resin cast of the accurate balance pipe just for reference. The measurements could be off by a little bit, but maybe you could get some details that are hard to capture on a photograph, such as the angle of bevel, etc.
Often when I think I have a complete blueprint of an item and start building it, I find that have missed to note a certain detail or measurement. In such a situation, a cheap cast of the thing could be very useful.

 

[Gojira61]

Originally posted by phase pistol@Oct 8 2005, 06:00 PM
I'm just jazzed to be here, man.

[snapback]1092586[/snapback]​

Yeah, what he said.

These past weeks have been like the days when I first found this place. I big tip of the hat to all doing the hard work.

Jim

 

[Gigatron]

Although I would love an exact copy (i.e. a cast, just to capture every last detail), I'd be a little nervous about taking one of their last pieces. If something were to happen to it, we may not be able to replace it. Cost aside, finding a replacement piece could just be impossible.

Perhaps they have laser scanning over there and we could get the piece scanned for a CAD file or something. I don't know how much something like that costs, so maybe it isn't feasible, but if it is, how cool would that be. It would be the same as a cast, but it wouldn't have to leave his hands.

What we should do, is have all the experts here determine every single measurement needed (in mm of course) including angles and radii. Once we have that, this guy should be able to provide all the information. Along with dozens of hi-res pictures we should be set to make the most accurate part never to come from rolls royce.

As far as payment, if he wants a replica emitter, I say we get him a whole damn saber (plus see if he knows anything about the gear, that wouldn't be so bad either). And I agree, a part of each sale should go to the museum.

Chris, I just want to thank you and your mystery guy personally, for all the work and research the two of you have done.

-Fred

 

[Killdozer]

Originally posted by lonepigeon@Oct 9 2005, 04:20 AM
The bad news about the correct balance pipe is we have NO PART NUMBER (at least not yet).
There was no number on the piece itself. We could try using the other part number and have any part supplier open up the boxes and visually inspect if they are correct.

[snapback]1092780[/snapback]​

Arg.

So..... is this the "mate" to the one we've seen in the thread? I wonder if the whole assembly would be sold/packaged/installed as a single unit?

And the wide flange chamfer and the recessed ring of holes is very very encouraging. IT'S TOO BAD THERE'S NO PART NUMBER.

Still, great news.

KD

 

[lonepigeon]

I am also thinking these may be the two halves of the same assembly (awaiting confirmation).
If so that's not bad since we'd also get 9 "close" emitters from a scrap engine.

The IG-88 head variation should be solved eventually. The museum has two engine's with the correct "heads" in them, but there's another museum with a MK8 Derwent cutaway with the wrong "heads" in it. The RR Nene (which is a later RR engine) also has the wrong "heads". My contact said this info helps though since it's a change within the MK8 model there should be documentation.

About the scrap MK8 and checking any others we might find he said:
>>I'm quite confident that it wouldn't be too much of an issue to remove the clamping from around the interconnector assembly, which might be enough to get a positive ID on your pipes (by measuring diameter?).[[ Note: I believe the beveled ring should be a giveaway to - Chris]] To be absolutely certain, more detailed disassembly would be necessary. I do have the overhaul manual that tells you how to remove the air casings and what tools are required; another set of pages I need to scan when I get a moment. You could certainly explain that you're after specific parts and need to perform a partial disassembly to confirm their presence. Another idea is to get the engine's serial number and we run it past RR Heritage, who managed to trace our Ghost engine to a specific DeHavilland Comet airliner. They did say that they don't have a lot by way of jet engine histories though. Worth asking your contact for the info on the dataplate I think. I can check the location of this if needed, but if they know to ask £5000 for it, they should be able to find and read off the serial number. If you were an aviation outfit, you would also want the servicing logs; ask if they have these? They could be invaluable if cross-referenced with the docs we have.<<

Good news for checking the scrap MK8 before buying.
Also shows the Derwent MK8's were used on planes other than Meteors.
More info can be found searching "DeHavilland Comet" on Google.

Also can everyone let me know what sources they have contacted?
I have a list of about a half dozen that my source has contacted. I'd like to keep a list off board so we know if there are any overlaps and try to avoid them.

On the down side, the gear search is not turning up anything so far.
We may be back to square one on that. I would suggest a similar approach to how this search went though- try and identify a large piece of machinery used as set dressing and then find out what parts could have come from within.