Former Network Executive on Star Trek (and other stuff)
- Thread starter dascoyne
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His choice of terminology clearly tells you which general direction he is coming from. I appreciate that he makes no secret of it. To his credit he concedes he is extrapolating from what he knew to be true when he was still in the industry. He also invites opinions from those within the system today to check him on his assertions.
What he voices is an entirely personal perspective and I feel like he does hit on some valid ideas and opinions. In particular I like his idea of a series based on a smaller starship tasked to follow up on some of the TOS plots.
Cephus
Master Member
If you watch Drinker's other videos, the Zoom ones, Paul is now showing up there, so you can get them together.
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robn1
Master Member
He's been on Midnight's Edge a few times too.
AnubisGuard
Master Member
Indeed. "Why Hollywoke hates..." puts me off, despite that I dislike "wokeness" and am very open to hearing criticism of what Star Trek has become – I just want it to come from a knowledge, reasonable place and not feel like someone is grinding an axe. It's not like an agenda is necessary to find fault with awful Hollywood writing these days.
Paul Chato isn't just slamming Hollywood "wokeness." He explains that what we perceive as "wokeness" has less to do with some nefarious agenda than it has to do with a new wave of younger liberal arts college educated producers, directors and writers who have been displacing more established and experienced (and much more expensive) people. These incoming folks naturally tend to reflect the interests and values of their educational (in)experience rather than the weathered life experience that had inspired the outgoing "old guard."
Cephus
Master Member
It is coming from knowledge, just like lots of people who have worked in the comics industry who have slammed Marvel and DC's wokeness are coming at it from the place of knowledge. That's one of the problems. The woke crowd is parasitic. They have absolutely no interest in the artforms that they destroy. We saw it with comics. The entire industry imploded once they were done with it because none of them actually wanted to read the new "woke" comics, they just wanted to complain. They're doing the same thing to movies, social media, etc. They exist to destroy. That's why it has to be talked about.
MattBlack
Well-Known Member
That just described every movement of art, design and music of the last 50 years!
In music you had:
Punk
New Wave
Hip Hop
Rave
Industrial
Grunge
Grime
They all burnt down the older 'experienced' establishment, and for the better. That's what culture does, it progresses forward with new voices.
Yes, culture evolves. I do appreciate when films and television represent current themes and perspectives, but that isn't the point of contention here. The issue isn't about new programming, it is about existing intellectual properties distorted in the service of new ideology with gross disregard for characteristic elements that made the franchises endure among fans. I'd like to think there are ways to treat those ("woke") themes without necessarily violating the interests of the fandom, but that isn't what existing fans feel they are getting. One has to consider whether it is due to a misreading or due to the disregard of the fandom on the part of the producers, directors and writers.
So it is great that each new generation gives us new music. But if all they wanted to do was produce punk, new wave, hip hop, rave and grunge covers of Johnny B. Goode I would get sick of it all.
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Cephus
Master Member
Except that's not what's going on. Instead of providing for new voices, it's just taking existing properties and driving them into the ground. I wouldn't say if they were making something new. They're not. Hollywood is terrified of risk. They're trying to destroy the things that already exist because they have a built-in audience, without actually caring what that built-in audience wants.
robstyle
Master Member
Star trek is more a victim of terrible circumstances of intellectual rights and property management. CBS and Paramount each own separate prices of the pie. It's why JJ Trek exists. I've said for many years the film and TV industry is railroading down the same path that destroyed the record industry. It's a path of decimal points and zeros. Don't watch, don't download, don't go to movies, don't subscribe, don't buy merch..... Completely boycott anything you don't care for in the entertainment industry true to the meaning. But stubborn hold outs won't. They feel invested by time and memories of something thats past its own life expectancy. With trek how many movies did the fans get with the original cast? Even got movies directed by the original cast. How well did that turn out? Then a new series is created and another and another... JJ Trek wasn't made for those hardcore fans. It was made for a new generation. It's no comparison to the original franchise.
Wokemess, for the incredibly small percentage of people involved, has ruined pop culture all around. So don't support it. Don't feed the machine. Those decimal points and zeros make the decisions.
I like to imagine Lee Marvin rising from the grave to end wokemess. But that's a script best left for JetBeetle. Just as in life, sometimes the best ideas can never happen.
Wokemess, for the incredibly small percentage of people involved, has ruined pop culture all around. So don't support it. Don't feed the machine. Those decimal points and zeros make the decisions.
I like to imagine Lee Marvin rising from the grave to end wokemess. But that's a script best left for JetBeetle. Just as in life, sometimes the best ideas can never happen.
What we’ve seen again and again now is art becoming the victim of its own success. Punk rock being bought out by megacorporations and turned into by-committee garbage. STAR WARS was dreamed up and overseen by one man for decades, and as soon as he let it go, Disney/Lucasfilm ran it completely into the ground, and generated years of hostility from its longtime fanbase by actively antagonizing it.
In the case of STAR TREK, even those who succeeded Roddenberry and his original team still tried to respect the ethos and the lore while also trying new things. They weren’t always successful, but the DNA of the real thing was still in there. Then, it fell victim to corporate rights issues (much like how the long-term seeds of Marvel’s destruction were planted by the movie rights being split up across various studios back in the 90s), and was handed over to Abrams and his hack squad.
For all intents and purpose, STAR TREK—the Rolls-Royce of science-fiction franchises, beloved by generations of nerds obsessed with the most minute details—was handed over to a group of dumb jocks who hate nerds and don’t care about details at all. It has become the antithesis of everything it once stood for.
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