Firefox MIG-31 movie aircraft

Discussion in 'Studio Scale Models' started by Firefox3D, May 26, 2015.

  1. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    I could buy a Carbon3D and do it in minutes, oh hang on don't have a spare £10k and £2k per year for support...
     
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  2. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Modified the exhaust to make it a more successful print, pretty close a 0.05mm layers, promises to be even better at 0.025mm, again my phone camera makes it look worse that it actually is.
    Firefox 1-48 exhause V2 50um.jpg
    I need to increase the spacing of the inner part, the gap is so small it's trapping the resin and causing ripples on the outside. Either it will work all the time or will just aim to get one good one and cast it.

    After much messing about due to different software suddenly deciding to resize STL files randomly, too tired to work that out right now, I have a 0.025mm cockpit dash print running.

    More adventures in 3D printing tomorrow...
     
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  3. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    This did kind of surprise me, the 1/48th cockpit dash came out well at 0.025mm layers

    Firefox 1-48 cockpit dash.jpg

    First attempt failed on the midsection so overdid the supports a tad, and pushed the exposure up a second a layer so it could be a bit crisper I think. The limiting factor is the X - Y 0.09mm pixel resolution, but there is no visible layer structure at all, it looks moulded. Again the camera makes it look worse that it is and with my eye I can resolve the quad of upper mid raised sections have 3 then 2 sets of rectangular buttons, the camera can't.

    Bottom part is at 0.1mm, I hacked the print file manually as it saves nearly 3 hours print time, still took around 8! The thin band just above my finger nail is from where the build platform is clearing the top level of the resin. Doesn't seem to happen with the bigger parts, think it must be resin movement/surface tension effect. Now I know it happens I can increase the support length so it misses the printed part.

    Clint in pilot seat.jpg

    Added details to the suit and in the process of adding some finer details to the seat. Just noticed at a different angle Clints left wrist looks a bit anorexic, must fix that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  4. Gheleon

    Gheleon New Member

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    Beautiful work.
    I am very impressed. My first love in movie aircraft.
    Glad to see it being given such a loving treatment.
    Well done.
     
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  5. Martin-El

    Martin-El Well-Known Member

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    As I believe this is the definitive Firefox thread now I wanted to share some revelations I've come across while researching both the miniature and full-size aircraft . Its an ongoing project as there is so little out there but occasionally things crop up and with a bit of delving its amazing what comes to light -

    For example, did you know the full size mockup of the cockpit still exists!?

    FB_IMG_1515183319863.jpg FB_IMG_1515190378072.jpg

    These pictures were taken a few years back and were believed to be in storage at Grant McCune's facility before the contents were sold on. I think its now in private hands.

    And check these out;

    FB_IMG_1515169086551.jpg FB_IMG_1515169086551-001.jpg

    The five-foot miniature being restored for exhibition at the WB museum where it currently resides. Best pictures I've seen of this in a Looong time. I've also been busy on the Apogee Facebook page - now you can only join up if you worked for them as its kind of theor private page but I do have a contact on there and got him to put a question out to some of the guys who worked on the miniature, specifically - what colour the * thing was - and here is his reply;

    From discussions about the firefox model: Michael K Speaker: David Beasley and I sculpted the five foot Firefox. The plane was painted a dark gray with very little chroma i.e. Neither warm or cold color. It was semi shiny and that creates a blue light kick from the blue screen.

    Not exactly the Pantone reference I know but a start...


    FB_IMG_1515183319863.jpg

    FB_IMG_1515190378072.jpg

    FB_IMG_1515169086551.jpg

    FB_IMG_1515169086551-001.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2018
  6. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    Thanks for the panel pics.I've been trying to get some full scale. cockpit measurements for a mock up.
     
  7. Martin-El

    Martin-El Well-Known Member

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    Any update here? :)
     
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  8. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys, sorry it's been a long time since an update. My Mom died just before Christmas, and kind of lost my motivation.

    Had done some work before that, started printing the rest of my 1/24th, and saw that some parts needed more decimation as the Photocentric printer can resolve them. Not that obvious, but I could see it.
    IMG_20171214_123057.jpg IMG_20171214_123205.jpg IMG_20171214_123227.jpg IMG_20171214_123314.jpg

    Good news is 1.5mm walls are strong enough so much less resin is needed than I thought, this part was pretty flexible until it was UV cured but didn't want to break, it feels almost exactly like a model kit part.

    I then drove myself mad with this section as it just didn't look right, I was unsure before but convinced myself it was just the way it looked as an isolated piece. Picked up a Firefox presskit off ebay with an original photograph of the pic in my avatar. It was much better resolution being an original, so it let me see the curvature from the panel lines more obviously. The top curve where it goes from the flat top to the sides was too tight a corner, fixed that and also noticed the front is wider that I had it where the canards are.

    View attachment Firefox lobby pic.jpg

    The photo matching in Sketchup then sent me down the rabbit hole for the past few days. I could not get the model to line up right. I hadn't done this since early on after I had the major dimensions worked out as the complexity of the model caused the software to go so slow or crash it was unusable. Turns out upgrading to an intel i7 and an Nvidia GTX970 helps, then removing the facet heavy exhausts and pilot from the file makes it almost snappy.

    So turns out I had one major screw up that luckily was a relatively easy fix. The wing from the root to the end of the leading edge was too long shrunk that 2% and it all seems to line up. There are details to fix, have to rebuild the neck, AGAIN! as there is now a gap. Still checking the tailplane tilt as another degree made them line up better, but I think both models are a little off, I can see the right tailplane on the one is set further back than the other which I think is throwing the angle off.
    Outer wings were a bit off shape and again a bit too big, shrunk/sized them, but require partial rebuild as it's screwed up the lateral panel lines. I misjudged the size as they needed to be angled down 2 degrees more.

    So these are the model overlaid, thanks Martin for the pics, the one in the crate is good colour reference. but yes it is actually shades of grey in the other pic which looks like natural lighting.
    Firefox photo match lobby pic.jpg Firefox 1-12 2017 photo match WB rebuild in crate.jpg Firefox 1-12 2017 photo match WB rebuild.jpg Firefox photo match studio model top view.jpg Firefox photo match WB museum 1.jpg
    Hard to get a complete match, there is always some lens distortion. I did play around with the lens correction feature of Photoshop on one pic, and it did seem to help maybe, but not knowing what lens was used it's a guessing game.

    Oh in another good start to the year the tray in my Formlabs printer cracked in situ and leaked resin inside the whole printer, after a full strip-down and clean it miraculously still worked, then last week the laser expired. After some detective work including dremelling out the resin in the laser assembly (really don't want you looking inside) I think I can fix it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  9. Hammer3246

    Hammer3246 Sr Member

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    Good to see you back. Sorry to hear about your Mom.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
     
  10. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I can't remember if you sent me an email/PM to send drawings too, realised I can do them directly from Sketchup relatively easily.
     
  11. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I have done a bit of work on the other thing from, jeez, a year ago, and can actually print it now with the Photocentic printer.
     
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  12. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    It is a journey, Jon, on both accounts. My condolences for your mother's passing.
    Kind regards, Robert
     
  13. NS4

    NS4 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure which version of SU you are using, but I saw a marked improvement going from 2016 to 2017 using photomatch.
    In 2016 I could only import part of my model and it was sluggish but in 2017 I can bring in the entire thing and it is quite receptive to being manipulated. No change apart from the update in version - worth considering if your still on 2016.
     
  14. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    I sent you and E-mail and never heard back from you.
     
  15. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    Firefox: I'm very sorry about the loss of your mother.I know how hard it is to lose a parent.My father passed away a few years back.I sent you my E-mail so i don't know if you recieved it or i didn't do it right.John
     
  16. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Got the message :thumbsup will get plans to you over the weekend
     
  17. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I do have 2017, but realised I was using 2015 as most of my files are that format, and have a couple of plug-ins that won't transfer. Also discovered under styles I had transparency enabled which also makes it slow to respond.

    Actually just realised I'm an idiot, you can save as version 2015 in 2017.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
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  18. Gheleon

    Gheleon New Member

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    It's looking great!
    Condolences on the passing of your Mother.
    I lost my Mum in 2010, and i know it's a tough time.
    Stay strong. She will never be far from your thoughts.
     
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  19. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    I was wondering if these measurements were accurate. I have the Mig-31 as being 62 foot 8 inches
    long and 46 foot 7 inches wide. fire1a.jpg
     
  20. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Yes, 62' 8" long, width is 13.2m or 43' 4". The wings are over sized in that pic hence the bigger measurement.

    Doing the plans is not as easy as I thought, I guess you want the outline of the front section with the relative placement of the cockpit interior, like an x-ray?
     
  21. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    the basic measurement would be fine/ Firefox_InsPanel-0002.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    cockpit outside demensions. wuJekTLl.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    Whatever is the easiest for you Firefox.Thanks.
     
  23. 32buds

    32buds Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about your loss mate. I'd an idea it was something serious, but no-one likes to speculate.
    The start of a long road, the only consolation I can offer is the loss gets easier to bear over time.
    Keep busy.
     
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  24. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, it was a surprise when it happened but not a complete shock if that makes sense. The good news is my Dad is doing ok, wasn't sure how much it was going to affect him.

    On a lighter note, I think I have fixed my Form1 printer. Fitted a new laser diode, which was an educated guess from the specs I could gather, Formlabs don't give much away. It's test printing yet another 1/12th canard now with new Photocentric black resin. It looks ok, fingers crossed.
     
  25. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    How is this for a start, can size it so it prints out at A4 or A3 with a sensible scale, this is just rough and ready

    Firefox front side plan.jpg

    Can easily make the measurements show in inches if you like it old school style ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  26. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    Wow !! That's great !!.Thanks Firefox.
     
  27. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    Firefox: I was wondering if you could give me a front,top and bottom view ? Thinking i might be able to fit that on my hovercraft build.Thanks,John
     
  28. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Yes I just posted that for feedback, is cm measurements ok?
     
  29. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    Yes that's fine.I have an app to convert to to inches.
     
  30. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    My Form 1 is fixed and working better than ever. I think the laser diode was on the way out when I bought it as now prints are near perfect and I am getting the claimed 0.03mm resolution or darned close.

    IMG_20180413_195516.jpg IMG_20180413_232701.jpg

    This is with the surprisingly affordable Photocentric firm resin. Learnt from the pilot test that you don't clean/scrub before UV exposure, hence the rough surface and lost detail,
    Just let it sit in isopropyl alcohol for 20 mins or so. The firm is not that firm with small things, the cockpit dash is 2cm across 3/4' or so and the supports caused it to deform a bit. The left side printed last with no support intervention and came out much cleaner. Will probably print with the cockpit tub so it self supports.

    Also annoyingly worked out the Funtodo resin I had been using caused me to think the printer was working way out of spec as I had to reduce the laser power significantly from the stock "grey" setting to get it to work right. The Photocentric resin works virtually spot on at stock, just slightly overexposed. So the Funtodo resin I received was way out of spec, as it way to much photo-initiator in the mix.
     
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  31. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Just about finished the cockpit detailing

    Firefox cockpit render 01.jpg
    Firefox cockpit render 02.jpg

    Tweaked Clint also, printed a 1/24 one and could see the torso was too tall and the right arm too long, shoulders too bulked up and a few minor things, printing another one now.
     
  32. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Went back to try the original Makerjuice resin, pretty good result at 1/24th scale 50 micron layers
    IMG_20180418_114858.jpg IMG_20180418_115001.jpg IMG_20180418_115049.jpg
     
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  33. Martin-El

    Martin-El Well-Known Member

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    Love seeing progress on this - great stuff - approx how tall is Mini-Mitchell?
     
  34. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    I can tell you exactly how big he is because I measured him checking for the shrinkage factor of the resin, 62.6mm from boot bottom to back of the helmet. lol, or about 5cm tall.

    IMG_20180419_231326.jpg

    1/48th scale on the left, as I said I scrubbed a bit too much at the black one when the resin was still soft, does well with the very small details - hard to pick up in the pic.

    I was just using up the green Makerjuice resin as I only had a bit left. It prints well with bigger things, but is not as sharp and tends to clump around the support points. Also I used the orientation suggested by the software for the small ones, where they printed with some support contact points on the front, The big one I orientated so he was lying on his back with his feet in the air, so most the supports points can not be seen.
     
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  35. rbeach84

    rbeach84 Sr Member

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    Too cool!
    Regards, Robert
     
  36. Johnny5

    Johnny5 New Member

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    I took the Dvd and put it on my laptop and got a lot of good screenshots of the Mig-31 and instrument panels. Need to get the theme song on my computer.
     
  37. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    So I started looking at Clints likeness when studying details for the ejector seat, and realised the CG scuplt I bought was much worse than I thought. So a silly amount of hours later, it actually looks like him.

    Clint head original vs new.jpg

    What I bought on the left, vs mine, I really am proud of the difference, surprised myself.
    After about twenty test renders pinned down a realistic base skin colour, discovered a noise bump map brings it to life, essentially simulating the micro skin variations.
    Helmet has a slight reshape, and almost finished what I started doing which was detailing the ejector seat!

    Clint new render.jpg

    Might just put the creases back in his brow, will probably only take about an hour...
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  38. Martin-El

    Martin-El Well-Known Member

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    I figured the scale too small to make out any resemblance to Eastwood but so glad you've made the changes!
    So - must be nearing the finish line for renders by now? When can we expect the kit..??? ;)
     
  39. Marv

    Marv Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  40. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    So, I went to add the crease in his brow and quite a few hours later, the final version. Realised it looked ok to the side or partial, but head on but was way too wide and deep. Really done now as I could probably spend another day on it and not be any closer. Did a photo match in Sketchup and it's right on the money.
    The fact that even at 1/24th his face is only around 5mm high... well once I started I had to get it right.

    Clint render old vs final.jpg

    Clint render 01.jpg

    I will print a bigger one for the hell of it, 1/6th scale or so just see what it looks like.

    Yes, Martin not far off now, I have a few things to finish, body parts are easy to print so those will be direct printed for the kit, still have to get a good engine print, but with my fixed printer that should not be a problem now.
     
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  41. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    I am so into it, I didn't see the obvious joke, Reminds me of Robin Willams when he firrst saw his son, "My god he hung like a bear" Nurse - "That's the umbilical cord Mr Willams"

    Yes, most people want 1/48th scale which will be around 16 inches long, and a few want 1/24th.

    As I have about 6kg of ABS I am contemplating doing a full studio scale 1/12th, although I might have to build an extension to the house for it, lol.
     
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  42. Martin-El

    Martin-El Well-Known Member

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    Gant looks sublime -
    Have you considered stand options yet for the various scales? Something in clear acrylic with an etched movie logo perhaps??
     
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  43. Mig31Enthusiast

    Mig31Enthusiast New Member

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    Hey Firefox,

    I would like to get on your list if you have one for a kit. Let me know what I need to do. The MiG-31 is calling me. Thinking in Russian. Also I may just give up on measuring that 1/35 fox. It’s so angular I’m not sure I can get a accurate measurement. Plus the exhaust areas are not installed yet so I’m measuring to the back of the mold. It’s a real pain in the * and I’m not even sure I’m getting angles and measurements you need. I also suck at measuring so. I doubt you could do a cockpit in 1/35 right? Way to small? Anyways Firefox sorry to hear about your mom. My mom is elderly now and it’s tearing me up. Thank you for doing this. It keeps me engaged in life. I love this stuff and man that cockpit is amazing. I’ve always just dreamed it. You’ve realized it!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  44. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Firefox 21 resin 02.jpg

    Using this pic and taking the width of the bottom of the tailplanes as 4.6 inches I can pretty accurately scale over the pics I have of the 1/36th master

    Firefox 1-36 photomatch 02.jpg
    Firefox 1-36 photomatch 01.jpg

    It's fairly close, the front section is fatter and the nose appears to be a less steep, also it appears to be slightly stretched out in the wing and engine section.

    Working on the stand by digitising the logo from this press pack cover
    Firefox press pack cover.jpg

    The render makes me think of the Atari video game
    Firefox logo 3D.jpg

    Rather than make another rod for my back so to speak I might just keep the stand simple, maybe a piece of hexagonal brass rod for the support so the model will not rotate. Quick mock up

    Firefox 1-48 stand.jpg

    The logo can be full colour printed onto aluminium plate, was thinking of adding a nod to Apogee and Grant McCune.
     
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  45. Martin-El

    Martin-El Well-Known Member

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    Wonderful -
    Can you throw up the original pics of the master? Not seen those before!!
     
  46. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Here you go
    Firefox 21 inch resin.jpg Firefox 21 inch resin 2.jpg fox1.jpg
     
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  47. 32buds

    32buds Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the overlays of your s on top of the original- Yours is superior!
    A work of art indeed!:thumbsup
     
  48. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Still working away, truly very close to done now near the 3 year anniversary of starting this thread, can not believe that much time has passed!

    Doing the photomatch I could see that the underbelly pod and the bottom of the engines did not align right, so fixed those. Also realised the exhausts were too far into the body they need to be further out, and looking at that saw the bottom of the inner exhaust cowling was too far out, thought it aligned with the notch in the top, turns out it doesn't. So although it was a major pain due the complicated geometry fixed that too.

    Firefox museum overlay.jpg

    Have the troublesome front neck spot on now as I could follow the panel lines for the contours. The tailplanes look miles off but I have worked out why. I bought the original unused tailplane casting from Sean (t2sides) so I have a real reference. The bottom would have to be shaped to the contour of the engines because of the angle they are fixed at, so it looks like they all vary a bit. I have to re-do the bottom cut of the tailplanes as they were a too far out from the centreline, so might just add 3-4mm to the height, which seems to make them line up better.

    Firefox 22-05-2018 01.jpg Firefox 22-05-2018 04.jpg Firefox 22-05-2018 03.jpg

    Adding some extra panel markings that I can see, still working so only the side nearest the camera is done.

    One thing I have worked out is the wings have not drooped over time, it does look like they were intentionally angled down

    Firefox wing angle.jpg

    The red line in the pic should line up with the rear of the wing. That part does appear parallel in the high res flat bottom view I have. I tried a slight downskew and it does improve the alignment with two of the photos, not so convincing with two others that are of the other model, so maybe it was an accident?
     
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  49. Firefox3D

    Firefox3D Well-Known Member

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    Just about done, finally.

    Firefox render 48.jpg Firefox render 49.jpg

    They really went overboard with access panels under the engines, especially as you can't make any of it out in the film. Spotted a couple more under the wings to add then that's it.
    Have gone with the slight down-tilt of the wings. Playing around with the photomatch more it does seem to match, even on the ice floe model. It's actually very subtle but it does make sense, especially as they were making RC versions as it would help stability I think.
    Realised something which now seems really obvious, the ice floe model was painted the more plain grey/black to match the footage of the full scale version.
    So there's nothing wrong with using that paint scheme, apart from the fact it's a bit boring ;)
     
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  50. earthdog

    earthdog Member

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    What are your plans for printing this?
     

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