Could Disney finally give us the remastered, unedited Star Wars we want?

The BRs are HORRIBLE.

Can't believe I bought them honestly.

and I'm glad I didn't :D

The SE changes were purely for him to see if he could do what he wanted with the prequels. It was a technology test that he got Fox to pay for.

Just like the young indiana jones chronicles before that

This will probably seem like a silly question but I have a laserdisc box set that comes with a hardbound book. Can't remember the name of it (it's been boxed away for years many years along with my pioneer player, and I'm too lazy to google it... :) Would this be a close to original version people are talking about?

edit-wise, yes. Color timing-wise, certainly not. :p
 
This will probably seem like a silly question but I have a laserdisc box set that comes with a hardbound book. Can't remember the name of it (it's been boxed away for years many years along with my pioneer player, and I'm too lazy to google it... :) Would this be a close to original version people are talking about?

What you've got is basically the native form of the "Bonus Discs" from 2006, which were basically DVD rips of the '93 laserdisc set in "widescreen" (actually, letterboxed). They're the last "Non-Special Edition" versions of the OT, along with the THX VHS release from the mid 90s.

The thing is, the '93 set has different color timing (most of the releases have, I think, played with color timing), some differences in the audio tracks, and most importantly, includes none of the cleanup work of the '04 DVDs, and is in 580x480, I believe, which is less than even a DVD (720x480) and FAR less than a blu-ray (1920x1080). Lastly, it includes the "letterboxing" effect, which means that the native image itself has black bars on the top and bottom designed to fit a native widescreen image onto a 4:3 standard TV screen. It does not work on modern 16:9 displays.

The DVD version IS the Laserdisc version, as I understand it. It's literally just a rip of the LD set, and it was done because it was an easy solution to plugging a hole in LucasFilm's revenue stream at the time.

It was never intended as a personal slight to the fans. More like "Well, look, the SEs are my vision of the films (for now). But, I mean, hey, if you want those crappy Laserdisc versions, I'm happy to sell them to you on DVD."

If we're going to ascribe any sentiment to GL for that decision, I'd go with "bewilderment" rather than "spite." Like, I honestly don't think he understands why people like what he sees as an obviously flawed version of his films, nor, for that matter, why they'd actively choose to watch said flawed version on a (then) two-generation-old video format that can't even display properly on modern TVs. But hey, if that's what they want...he'll sell it to ya (or did, for a time -- I don't think they're printing the 2006 bonus discs anymore).
 
The bonus DVDs are from the MASTERS (probably D1 video tape) used to make the Definitive Collection laserdiscs. They didn't just put in an LD and hit play. So they should be slightly better in quality than the fanmade ones, being two analog generations fewer.

Also, the DVD restored the original crawl to just say "Star Wars". No "Episode IV". So that's something.
 
If we're going to ascribe any sentiment to GL for that decision, I'd go with "bewilderment" rather than "spite." Like, I honestly don't think he understands why people like what he sees as an obviously flawed version of his films, nor, for that matter, why they'd actively choose to watch said flawed version on a (then) two-generation-old video format that can't even display properly on modern TVs. But hey, if that's what they want...he'll sell it to ya (or did, for a time -- I don't think they're printing the 2006 bonus discs anymore).

And which is why Disney, looking at ways to monetize this franchise will consider this bottom of the totem pole.

And for those who have used the Mona Lisa argument, looks like the old Masters altered their work quit a bit.

http://io9.com/these-secret-artistic-masterpieces-were-hidden-beneath-1626834333
 
Thanks for explaining, I appreciate it.

What you've got is basically the native form of the "Bonus Discs" from 2006, which were basically DVD rips of the '93 laserdisc set in "widescreen" (actually, letterboxed). They're the last "Non-Special Edition" versions of the OT, along with the THX VHS release from the mid 90s.

The thing is, the '93 set has different color timing (most of the releases have, I think, played with color timing), some differences in the audio tracks, and most importantly, includes none of the cleanup work of the '04 DVDs, and is in 580x480, I believe, which is less than even a DVD (720x480) and FAR less than a blu-ray (1920x1080). Lastly, it includes the "letterboxing" effect, which means that the native image itself has black bars on the top and bottom designed to fit a native widescreen image onto a 4:3 standard TV screen. It does not work on modern 16:9 displays.

The DVD version IS the Laserdisc version, as I understand it. It's literally just a rip of the LD set, and it was done because it was an easy solution to plugging a hole in LucasFilm's revenue stream at the time.

It was never intended as a personal slight to the fans. More like "Well, look, the SEs are my vision of the films (for now). But, I mean, hey, if you want those crappy Laserdisc versions, I'm happy to sell them to you on DVD."

If we're going to ascribe any sentiment to GL for that decision, I'd go with "bewilderment" rather than "spite." Like, I honestly don't think he understands why people like what he sees as an obviously flawed version of his films, nor, for that matter, why they'd actively choose to watch said flawed version on a (then) two-generation-old video format that can't even display properly on modern TVs. But hey, if that's what they want...he'll sell it to ya (or did, for a time -- I don't think they're printing the 2006 bonus discs anymore).
 
Would the D1 Video Tapes have the 'letter box' as part of the image?
Most likely. If they'd transferred it anamorphically, they would've been able to deliver it that way for the DVD, but they didn't. In 1993 there wouldn't have been any reason to do anything but a letterboxed transfer (and a pan and scan one, standard practice at the time).
 
The DVD version IS the Laserdisc version, as I understand it. It's literally just a rip of the LD set, and it was done because it was an easy solution to plugging a hole in LucasFilm's revenue stream at the time.

It was never intended as a personal slight to the fans. More like "Well, look, the SEs are my vision of the films (for now). But, I mean, hey, if you want those crappy Laserdisc versions, I'm happy to sell them to you on DVD."

If we're going to ascribe any sentiment to GL for that decision, I'd go with "bewilderment" rather than "spite." Like, I honestly don't think he understands why people like what he sees as an obviously flawed version of his films, nor, for that matter, why they'd actively choose to watch said flawed version on a (then) two-generation-old video format that can't even display properly on modern TVs. But hey, if that's what they want...he'll sell it to ya (or did, for a time -- I don't think they're printing the 2006 bonus discs anymore).


Yes, but why produce a DVD of the same thing as the LD-rip bootlegs, when he could have sold a better version of it without much effort? Why just corner the remaining market for the bootlegs when he could be getting the ENTIRE bootleg market to RE-BUY it all?

Under normal circumstances GL would always be thinking with the latter logic. He wrote the book on merchandising. And he has traditionally given some pretty large sh*ts about the way his movies get viewed.
 
Well, it would've been SOME effort! They would've had to make new transfers of pre-SE prints. Which is totally doable, of course, but they were going with what they had to work with that was already on the shelf. Transfers are a little bit of a biggish thing to go about just for a "DVD extra." Not that I'm not with everyone else in wanting one, of course.
 
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(and a pan and scan one, standard practice at the time).

Jeepers! Don't remind me. That's a format that nobody today asks for or misses. With widescreen TVs now being the standard and BluRays offering movies in nothing but their original aspect ratio (unless dictated by the filmmakers), there is no reason, no freaking reason that a BluRay release of the original Star Wars would have a 4x3 Letterbox presentation.
 
Well, they still kinda do, it just doesn't hurt it as bad. A lot of cable airings (SW included) will crop or pan/scan a scope picture to fill a 16x9 frame. 2.35:1 films like the OT and Indy movies should still have little letterbox bars, even on 16x9 screens.
 
When you consider the multiple generations of audience, worldwide, of ANH, arguably the biggest movie of all time, and the SE is easily the most "controversial" SE of any movie near this size . . . . I refuse to hear any arguments that GL was risking not making his money back on an unaltered cut of the OT. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

If we were having this discussion about some other movie made by a major studio then we would not be acting like it's a big investment to get a decent unaltered copy made for sale. Even if it's not the ideal copy they could still offer something better quality than a letterboxed VHS/LD. All they need is a fresh scan of an original negative whose pieces are already almost all restored & assembled, or possibly even just a decent scan of another existing secondary source. This is not asking much.

It requires a lot of making excuses for GL to make it sound like this idea was ever much work or financial risk. Right now you can get better-quality home copies of sh*tty old ANH-ripoff movies than you can get for the real thing.
 
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Before the dawn of man...before the dawn of VHS, there was.... Super 8!

Yes, I still have the original Super 8 films of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back that they released before VHS was around. I think I bought them through some company that advertized in Starlog magazine when I was 10 or 11 years old. They do not contain the entire movies mind you but have a lot of the biggest action scenes in them (selected scenes).

I will have to dust off the old Super 8 projector one day and show them to my kids. Then I can say, "See son, back when I was a wee lad we didn't have Blu-ray, and HDTVs and...."

Damn kids are spoiled these days.
 
What's fun is the elements made to create the ESB Super 8 reduction were struck before the final 35mm edit was locked. There are a few editing and sound differences as a result. (Nothing earth shattering, but it's SW, so any variation is of immense interest. ;) ) The folks at originaltrilogy.com discovered this.
 
What's fun is the elements made to create the ESB Super 8 reduction were struck before the final 35mm edit was locked. There are a few editing and sound differences as a result. (Nothing earth shattering, but it's SW, so any variation is of immense interest. ;) ) The folks at originaltrilogy.com discovered this.


Thats cool. I didn't know that. I might have to pick them up someday and a super8 machine. Would just be cool for nostalgia. :)



Ben
 
Most likely. If they'd transferred it anamorphically, they would've been able to deliver it that way for the DVD, but they didn't. In 1993 there wouldn't have been any reason to do anything but a letterboxed transfer (and a pan and scan one, standard practice at the time).

Exactly. Back then, "widescreen" (which was the same as "letterboxed," I believe) was the height of video entertainment because -- for the first time for most people -- you saw the full picture. Most consumers had no idea that their home versions of films were missing a significant portion of the original images. Pan and Scan made sense as a technology for the era (since nobody had widescreen TVs back then), but it's completely obsolete now. The problem is, so is the letterbox format, since it really only works on 4:3 displays. Even computer monitors and handheld devices have moved beyond that.

And which is why Disney, looking at ways to monetize this franchise will consider this bottom of the totem pole.

And for those who have used the Mona Lisa argument, looks like the old Masters altered their work quit a bit.

http://io9.com/these-secret-artistic-masterpieces-were-hidden-beneath-1626834333

Yeah, I agree with this, except insofar as they end up having to restore them for some kind of higher resolution release. If and when that happens, and if and when they can sort out the rights issues, I think they could end up doing that. But for the foreseeable future? It's fan edits/restorations or the '06 DVDs for folks.

Yes, but why produce a DVD of the same thing as the LD-rip bootlegs, when he could have sold a better version of it without much effort? Why just corner the remaining market for the bootlegs when he could be getting the ENTIRE bootleg market to RE-BUY it all?

Under normal circumstances GL would always be thinking with the latter logic. He wrote the book on merchandising. And he has traditionally given some pretty large sh*ts about the way his movies get viewed.

Well, it would've been SOME effort! They would've had to make new transfers of pre-SE prints. Which is totally doable, of course, but they were going with what they had to work with that was already on the shelf. Transfers are a little bit of a biggish thing to go about just for a "DVD extra." Not that I'm not with everyone else in wanting one, of course.

Yeah, it wouldn't have been a trivial expense. In essence, it would've involved rescanning material that had JUST been rescanned for the SEs, possibly redoing various digital enhancements (e.g. removing matte boxes, some of the additional background CGI like Cloud City, etc.). And while we are passionate Star Wars fans who've bought multiple editions of the discs, I tend to agree with Bryan that most consumers are casual fans at best, and therefore would've thought twice about buying the original, unedited versions as either a standalone set, or worse, a boxed set with the same discs they just bought.

You'll note that the '06 release was only released as a combination set, which suggests to me that it was done for the "holdouts" like many of us, who didn't want to spend the money on versions they didn't care to watch. That was done to coax folks like us to invest in the SE by "sweetening the pot" and offering the bonus discs. It's actually a more economical approach, when you think about it. It requires far less effort and money to transfer the masters for the LD set onto DVD and package them with a finished product, then charge maybe $8 more retail for the SEs than it does to rescan and restore the OOT for hi-def release. And, in the process, you get to sell product to people who were already reluctant to buy.

Lastly, I do agree that there's an aspect of this where Lucas is very concerned with the artist's right to define their own work. He's been heavily involved in maintaining the artistic integrity of film -- in the sense of studios and third parties not mucking about with the artist's conception of the work. That, however, has never extended to the artist's own conception of the work, which Lucas holds sacrosanct, and which means that an artist can, effectively, change their mind and subsequently change the work itself. Lucas, I think, believes that people should respect and accept the artist's vision as-is, in whatever format they get it, with whatever changes may accompany the latest release of the work. So, yeah, ultimately, there's an element of "Because I don't wanna" to answering the question, but it's not out of simple petulance or malice towards the fans. It's because Lucas has a very artist-centric view of what art means, and generally disregards the competing view that the audience's participation shapes the meaning of the work. It's your old high school English class debate about artist's intent vs. audience's interpretation, and Lucas -- with his artist-centric view -- hews almost completely towards the former.



One other point. If and when an archival release of the OOT is done, I would be absolutely floored if it was released independently of a megaset, or at least a trilogy set with the SEs. My theory is that releasing an OOT version as a standalone would (A) cause confusion in casual consumers, and (B) lead to competition with your own product. It's a lot easier to just bundle it all together and sell it to people at a higher price than to try to slice and dice the sets so that the hardcore OOT fans can buy JUST that version.
 
Before the dawn of man...before the dawn of VHS, there was.... Super 8!

Yes, I still have the original Super 8 films of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back that they released before VHS was around. I think I bought them through some company that advertized in Starlog magazine when I was 10 or 11 years old. They do not contain the entire movies mind you but have a lot of the biggest action scenes in them (selected scenes).

I will have to dust off the old Super 8 projector one day and show them to my kids. Then I can say, "See son, back when I was a wee lad we didn't have Blu-ray, and HDTVs and...."

Damn kids are spoiled these days.

The original Super 8mm presentation of the first film was already restored and remastered five years ago. Here it is in it's entirety.

.
 
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So I'm on the verge of getting a new flat screen tv, upgrading from a 32" 3:4 tube. I have the 2006 Star Wars DVDs and am eager to show them to my daughter for the first time. Will these DVDs fill the screen, or do I have to do some crazy things with my DVD player? I don't want to leave the impatient 5 year old waiting while I figure technical things out...
 
So I'm on the verge of getting a new flat screen tv, upgrading from a 32" 3:4 tube. I have the 2006 Star Wars DVDs and am eager to show them to my daughter for the first time. Will these DVDs fill the screen, or do I have to do some crazy things with my DVD player? I don't want to leave the impatient 5 year old waiting while I figure technical things out...

If you want to show the OOT to your daughter...the 2006 discs won't really work.

Check out this site for more info on it.

http://savestarwars.com/gout.html

Basically, the image will end up looking like this:

nonanamorphic.jpg


You'll have to either stretch the image side-to-side to fill the screen that way (which warps the image) or zoom the image, which ends up cutting off part of the picture anyway.

The 2006 bonus discs really are not designed for modern displays. You'd be better off showing her the 2006 discs on your current 32" 4:3 tube. Otherwise, you will have to seek...alternate outlets...for a de-specialized version of the OT.
 

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