Carbon-Freeze Vader Saber...an MPP. The Definitive ESB

[paul n]

I can see them, but I've been looking at the stupid thing for a week straight now

I'll have to do some side by sides of the variouse pics. The main reason I think its wires is because the wires that are seen in the other pics are in the exact same spot that the supposed button is and they curve in just the right way to be mistaken for a round object, also you can see the port hoes under the suposed button (see EDC's earlier post). All the MPP tells are there, the little screw under the shroud and the atachment point for the MPP badge are both there, not to mention the shroud and the yellow disk on the clamp, oh and the bubbles. I'll try and post something about this tommorow, I can see how it's hard to swallow, especialy since it's been accepted to be a King Sol for so long.

~Paul

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

Ill post a side shot of my model later tonite.

You know the more I stare at that greebly on the clamp, the more I think is may be a nut. I mean stare at it a bit and you can kinda make out six sides....this would make the MOST sense, since something may have been neede to fasten the clamp down.

Ever think that thos may not be MPP side plates? or that the threads on the plate may have been stripped? We do know the lever was probably busted off right?

More food for our already over-indulged thought

 

[Reel Fakes]

Here's what I think:
<img src=http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=566768&size=lg>
Thanks for the idea for the clamp Ham

All I had was black wire, so that's what I used.
What do you think?

 

[lonepigeon]

I could've sworn that I posted this image in my last thread, sorry about that.
<img src=http://lonepigeon.home.att.net/anhesbcompare.jpg>

And here's a larger scan of the pic from PoSW still in it's background:
<img src=http://lonepigeon.home.att.net/dvesbsaber.jpg>

Yes, believe it or not that's it. That sucker was the best I could find when putting that saber page together. So you'll have to forgive the imprecise outline, it was never meant to be used as scaling reference- I only cleaned it up best I could to show the ESB saber.
It came from the Star Wars Heroes and Villians coloring book by Golden Books circa 1997. The same pic appears even worse on a ESB coloring book cover from 1980. I've looked for a better version of this pic for a long time, no luck. The full image has Vader standing dead center (hands on belt) and a Stormtrooper on each side of him, bright red background.

 

[tk421mv7]

Paul,

Sorry, but I have to disagree... Illusion or not, something is protruding in a distinctly round-ish fashion. I'm referring to the left "side" of the shot of the saber where *something* is extending beyond the tube of the saber.

In the other shots of the saber (where you can see the wires) there is nothing to suggest the round shape we see in the Carbon Chamber pic.


Eh, if it IS an illusion it's a darn odd one.

 

[Oohyeah KL]

Hey Punk, that's pretty damn good!

Now go trim those grips down a bit and you'll be 99% there!

Alex, I too have doubts whether the carbon freeze pic shows wires, or something else, but one thing is for sure (IMO), and that is the saber is definitely an MPP (or at least, NOT a King Sol). Too many MPP landmarks on it, and not a single King Sol landmark apart from that supposed 'button'.

I would tend to agree it's probbaly wires though, as it would make more sense given that we know with 95% certainty that that was what was used in other parts of the movie (ie., see the B&W pic, and the PoSW pic). All the markings of those 2 sabers can be seen in the CF pic too, so it's all too likely that they are one and the same saber.

 

[jvasilatos]

Are we now also writing off the circuit board in the clamp as opposed to the bubble display? From what I am reading into now, if this is an MPP the only differences between it and the MPP from ANH are the wire thingy, longer grips, and a round bolt on the clamp. Which means a conversion would only require longer grips, calc bubbles for the clamp and a round disc for the opposite side of the lever? (The wire thingy looks so much like it was just a mistake and not meant to be seen, doesn't seem anything aesthetic about it from a propmakers p.o.v. but that's just my opinion.)

Dang. And I liked my King Sol conversion. I'm keeping it anyway ;-)

JV

 

[Oohyeah KL]

Me too!

On the circuit board/bubbles issue, aren't there other pics showing a circuit board?

 

[vaderdarth]

For what it's worth, I'm beginning to see six sides on the "nut" on the clamp too!!! It really does look six sided in the Chronicles book! Wow!!! what a thread this has become. This has shed more light on the ESB saber than ever before. How cool.
Dave

 

[Lordsandy]

Great pic Ham!

I never thought I would be convinced...but I am.....damn I loved my King Sol too!

Theres is no doubt in my mind that there are two wires in the holes of the MPP.

Once you acknowledge that fact and then look at the FC picture you can make out the wires and see how the brightness between them gives you the illusion it bumps out.....but does not.

Great work everyone!!!!

Here is a pic of my real MPP with real Bubble strip.....now I just need to deal with the clamp nut.

 

[Ham Solo]

Thanks, guys!

The parts were easy to find and cost about $1.00 total. It looks dead-on to me(the clamp, that is).

Now I think I'm going to weather my saber to give it more character. It just looks too clean right now.

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

Paul,

Here is the side shot you requested, I thik it should line up pretty well.

<img src=http://members.aol.com/edcstudios/mppesb01.gif>

 

[paul n]

Wow! Thanx Chip, I'm gonna' try and do some imaging tommorow, I'll try and do a side by side then.

Also, maybe this pic will help with the yellow du-dad debate, I'm sure you've all seen it before but it's the only pic of the side of the clamp oposite the disk that I know of. It also clearly shows the bubbles in the clamp.

Hope this helps a bit, sorry if you've seen it before

tk421, trust me, it is an opticle illusion. I'm trying to figure out some way to illustrate how it happened. I'm still positive the CF saber is the same saber that's in all the other pic here, with the red wire and the black and white wire.

Oh, one last thing, you guys are all making me really jealous, with all these Vader ESB sabers! My flash is still sitin' on the table barely touched! I'm waitin' till we get EVERYTHING nailed down solid. It'll almost be kinda sad when I finnish it, I've been working on this since I've been in this hobby, I'll have finnaly nabed my "White Whale". Hmmm. Oh, You guys that have King Sol sabers, DON'T Get rid of them, I've got two Vader sabers I made using HR flashes and I still love them! They're my throw around sabers, I'll have to post pics some day.

MTFBWY!

~Paul

 

[paul n]

Hmm. Looking at my own pics I'm wondering if that isn't a bolt there. I just noticed the "head" of what ever that is is the same width as the side bar (maybe just a bit smaller). Chip mentioned he thought it looked like a nut on the other side (the side seen in all the other shots). If there is a machine screw head there then the nut theory seems very viable.

Asuming they used the same flash as in ANH, which had a nail or some like object used to hold the clmap together, it is posible that the threads in the side plates were stripped, and hence the need for a screw and nut set up to hold it together. It would also explain the posible use of the lock washer that Chris pointed out.

Thoughts?

~Paul

 

[lonepigeon]

To answer the circuit board question. No photos were ever found showing a circuit board. The ESB saber at the Barbican exhibit is the only Vader saber known to have the board.

I think Jim's setup with the binding post looks pretty good. If you remove the washer from the one side it would match photos of both sides. Also it reminds me of the ESB DL-44 bracket setup. On that blaster there's a threaded washer and the threaded rod sticks out of the center of it. The head of the fastener looks round to me. The picture's not in focus enough to prove much.

I'm not sure on the piece (washer/post end) actually being brass/gold color. I think brass would really stand out more, the piece in question only has a hint of yellow to it. It could just be oxidation of the metal.

 

[jvasilatos]

Are there any pictures of the ESB saber with the circuit board from the Barbican exhibit?

JV

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

ANH and ESB Vader Sabers...just about to spec, have not yet added the wires, or the proper clamp greeblies.

<img src=http://members.aol.com/edcstudios/mpps01.gif>

 

[Reel Fakes]

Okay, so HOW long should my grips be? Do we have a concensus?

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

Right now 4.125" seems to be about right

 

[Oohyeah KL]

So, the Barbican saber is the only ESB saber showing the circuit board, eh?
haha! Man, what a revealing thread this has become!
Now I would say that it's likely that circuit boards were never used for the Vader, and the Barbican can be ignored - we all know how 'accurate' that one is!!!

The only other factor which is pro circuit board is that the ROTJ saber could well have used the circuit board (see the Kenner sabers, as well as my Metal Vader statue which is meant to have been made with reference to LFL archive materials. The MOM saber suggests something totally different, but I'd say thte MOM was most likely the stunt version (hence the brass rod).

Anyway, I would say that even if the ROTJ sabers had the circuit board, it is most likely that it only started in ROTJ, based on the fact that the saber was Luke's ESB graflex.

Conclusion: ESB Vader continued to use the bubbles.

Chip, can you do another side-by-side of the ANH and ESB, but from a side angle? That would make it easier to see the relative clamp positioning and the grip lengths.