SinkTube Jedi
Well-Known Member
how can you see the wires in that pic?
Carbon-Freeze Vader Saber...an MPP. The Definitive ESB
- Thread starter lonepigeon
- Start date
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Paul, there's somethign funny with this pic you posted:
The bulb release doesn't line up!
If you draw a straight line from the end of the bulb release of the ANH saber down, it won't line up wiht the end of the ESB bulb release.
The clamps of both sabers are therefore almost equidistant from the bulb release!
But in any case, it seems obvious now that it's a case of lower clamp, longer grips, as lonepigeon pointed out.
Lordsandy - interesting pic of the Graflex - does that look like the clamp at 12 o'clock??!!
The bulb release doesn't line up!
If you draw a straight line from the end of the bulb release of the ANH saber down, it won't line up wiht the end of the ESB bulb release.
The clamps of both sabers are therefore almost equidistant from the bulb release!
But in any case, it seems obvious now that it's a case of lower clamp, longer grips, as lonepigeon pointed out.
Lordsandy - interesting pic of the Graflex - does that look like the clamp at 12 o'clock??!!
KL, Chris filled in the button assembly for the pic because it was obscured by the cape, here's a quote from above:
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>It was trimmed from a black background, the edges might not be perfect and I had to fake in the bottom half of the trigger assembly which was completely obscured.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
What was the length of Johns ESB grips again?
One Request from any one here: Does any one have the SW Encyclopedia? on pg 323 there's a nice pic of Vader from ESB. You can't see much of the saber but the Black and White wire going between the ports is visible and the pics in color. If any one has that book could ya' maybe scan it in and post it here?
~Paul
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>It was trimmed from a black background, the edges might not be perfect and I had to fake in the bottom half of the trigger assembly which was completely obscured.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
What was the length of Johns ESB grips again?
One Request from any one here: Does any one have the SW Encyclopedia? on pg 323 there's a nice pic of Vader from ESB. You can't see much of the saber but the Black and White wire going between the ports is visible and the pics in color. If any one has that book could ya' maybe scan it in and post it here?
~Paul
Johns's grips are 4.375" for the ESB and 3.7" for the ANH.
Edit - Forgot to put in a " for inches.
Edit - Forgot to put in a " for inches.
E.D.C. Studios
Well-Known Member
A related question I guess, why did the grip length of the grafle all of a sudden become 3.70"
I always thought it was 3.625" to match the length of the graflex bottom...it also makes a bit more sense that its a rounder number, so to speak.
I always thought it was 3.625" to match the length of the graflex bottom...it also makes a bit more sense that its a rounder number, so to speak.
OK, so his ANH grips are preaty good but the ESB ones are about 1/4" too long. Again, I think the clamp should be farther back than on the ANH version just like the comparison pic above illustrates.
Hmm. Chris, maybe you should change the tittle of this thread to the defined Vader ESB saber or something like that, it's becaome so much more than just the "Carbon-Freeze Vader Saber...an MPP?" thread
~Paul
Hmm. Chris, maybe you should change the tittle of this thread to the defined Vader ESB saber or something like that, it's becaome so much more than just the "Carbon-Freeze Vader Saber...an MPP?" thread
~Paul
Okay, I might have missed something above, but...
If it's an MPP, what the heck is that round button-thingy? I don't think that's an illusion. It's a thingy for sure.
As far as I can tell, that's the only thing that points to it being a King Sol. Otherwise, it could most certainly be a bastardized MPP.
Amazing how much and how little this lousy picture has provided. Well past the "thousand words" at this point!
I won't be selling my Sol, but I'm very glad to have gotten both versions of Larry's MPP.
If it's an MPP, what the heck is that round button-thingy? I don't think that's an illusion. It's a thingy for sure.
As far as I can tell, that's the only thing that points to it being a King Sol. Otherwise, it could most certainly be a bastardized MPP.
Amazing how much and how little this lousy picture has provided. Well past the "thousand words" at this point!
I won't be selling my Sol, but I'm very glad to have gotten both versions of Larry's MPP.
vaderdarth
Master Member
I think it's pretty obvious from looking at that fantastic side by side pic that the clamp is moved down and the grips are longer as well. I kinda figured the bulb release assembly had been tampered with in the esb photo. Everyone needs to keep in mind that several things can happen to change the full length of the flashes in these pics:
for instance on a graflex......the clamp holds the top and bottom loosely with almost a full 2mm of movement under the clamp............the MPP end cap may not be screwed down as tightly from pic to pic, saber to saber. The shroud position depends on the hole that the holding screw falls into.........may not even be in the hole in some of the pics which displaces the shroud ever so slightly. I know this sounds hokey, but having disassembled my heilands over and over, I know that these things can really vary alot and mess you up on placing grips etc.....
Dave
for instance on a graflex......the clamp holds the top and bottom loosely with almost a full 2mm of movement under the clamp............the MPP end cap may not be screwed down as tightly from pic to pic, saber to saber. The shroud position depends on the hole that the holding screw falls into.........may not even be in the hole in some of the pics which displaces the shroud ever so slightly. I know this sounds hokey, but having disassembled my heilands over and over, I know that these things can really vary alot and mess you up on placing grips etc.....
Dave
Oohyeah KL
Well-Known Member
Excellent points, Dave.
mkstewartesq
Sr Member
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>tk421mv7 wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Amazing how much and how little this lousy picture has provided. </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
And further amazing how obscured this point is after twenty years. Given the information age, and, the fact that almost every other fact about these films is so well known, it's almost criminal that (major) details like this still elude us.
Mike
And further amazing how obscured this point is after twenty years. Given the information age, and, the fact that almost every other fact about these films is so well known, it's almost criminal that (major) details like this still elude us.
Mike
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>If it's an MPP, what the heck is that round button-thingy? I don't think that's an illusion. It's a thingy for sure. </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
Ya' need to go back and read through this thread carefully, it is preatty evident that the button was an optical illusion created by wires placed in the port holes on the MPP. Basicaly as far as I can tell there is only one saber (sans the ANH one shown for refrence) pictured on this thread in all the pics. It's amazing what can happen when you take objects, line them up just right and add film grain distortion, or pixilation; heck just being far away can do it. All the clues and new pics seem to lead to the conclusion that it's just wires. I'll have to do some more pic comparison to show what I mean (not tonight though
)
Chip, I don't think he's saying that the Luke ANH grips are 3.7" long just the ANH Vader grips. Maybe some one can do a side by side of the ANH Vader and Skywalker sabers.
Again any one have the SW Encyclopedia? I'd really love to see a blowup of the pic on pg. 323!
~Paul
Ya' need to go back and read through this thread carefully, it is preatty evident that the button was an optical illusion created by wires placed in the port holes on the MPP. Basicaly as far as I can tell there is only one saber (sans the ANH one shown for refrence) pictured on this thread in all the pics. It's amazing what can happen when you take objects, line them up just right and add film grain distortion, or pixilation; heck just being far away can do it. All the clues and new pics seem to lead to the conclusion that it's just wires. I'll have to do some more pic comparison to show what I mean (not tonight though
Chip, I don't think he's saying that the Luke ANH grips are 3.7" long just the ANH Vader grips. Maybe some one can do a side by side of the ANH Vader and Skywalker sabers.
Again any one have the SW Encyclopedia? I'd really love to see a blowup of the pic on pg. 323!
~Paul
E.D.C. Studios
Well-Known Member
OK how does this look guys?
<img src=http://members.aol.com/edcstudios/esbmpp.gif>
Nearest I can figure this is what it would look like for esb.
I didn't make the little greebly thing brass, and have not yet added any wires.
Oh and yes the model of the flash comforms to exact measurements of the MPP...since everyone on the board is always asking so many saber questions, grip and clamp orientation etc... I thought some nice clear 3d models that are put together according to the facts we know would make a great reference source.
<img src=http://members.aol.com/edcstudios/esbmpp.gif>
Nearest I can figure this is what it would look like for esb.
I didn't make the little greebly thing brass, and have not yet added any wires.
Oh and yes the model of the flash comforms to exact measurements of the MPP...since everyone on the board is always asking so many saber questions, grip and clamp orientation etc... I thought some nice clear 3d models that are put together according to the facts we know would make a great reference source.
vaderdarth
Master Member
Chip,
that looks dead-on accurate to me. Here is something I have been wondering about the "brass" doodad though........is it possible that the Brass color is an illusion caused by the distinct orange glow of the chamber scene. Chrome can look brass when a reddish or orange reflection comes off of it. What do you guys think? Could that thing still be chrome?
I'm not trying to muddy the waters, I just can't tell what's actually what color in that very Red looking scene.
Dave
that looks dead-on accurate to me. Here is something I have been wondering about the "brass" doodad though........is it possible that the Brass color is an illusion caused by the distinct orange glow of the chamber scene. Chrome can look brass when a reddish or orange reflection comes off of it. What do you guys think? Could that thing still be chrome?
I'm not trying to muddy the waters, I just can't tell what's actually what color in that very Red looking scene.
Dave
</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>I have been wondering about the "brass" doodad though........is it possible that the Brass color is an illusion caused by the distinct orange glow of the chamber scene?</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
No, since the yellow disk is actually more visible in other pics not from the Carbonfreeze scene, like the full saber pic from PoSW and a few others like the Dinner room scene (where there red wire is also visible.
~Paul
No, since the yellow disk is actually more visible in other pics not from the Carbonfreeze scene, like the full saber pic from PoSW and a few others like the Dinner room scene (where there red wire is also visible.
~Paul
SinkTube Jedi
Well-Known Member
I don't know, I think folks are assuming to much. The wire thing is from out in left field.
SinkTube Jedi
Well-Known Member
I am not jumping to conclusions, there just is not enough "for sure" pics. I wish the damn DVD was out. Curse you George!!
