VanPersie
Well-Known Member
Fair point
Question about ESB MPP Shroud
- Thread starter Rexermus
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- darth vader esb mpp shroud vader vader saber
Is there any evidence that the shroud was cast in steel if it was steel at all? What's to say it wasn't machined from steel square stock? It really isn't that difficult to do given the simple geometries of the MPP shroud. Time consuming, yes, working with steel, but not impossible. It's certainly a heck of a lot faster/easier to machine than cast.
I still go full Occam’s Razor about this. The simplest solution is probably the correct one, and the most reasonable answer is the prop shroud was made by MPP (even if it was a production variation) and it’s made of aluminum just like all the rest of them.
For me it’s the holes drilled for the reflector that make me believe it’s a factory piece and not made by ILM or a SW prop maker. A custom made shroud for an lightsaber will never need to hold a reflector, what’s the point of adding that detail? Even it you have a broken MPP shroud and it’s your task to replicate a new one in Alu/Steel drilling the reflector holes is a bridge too far for me as a lightsaber prop.
Sure, some will say “How do you know?” or “Why wouldn’t they?” or maybe “Perhaps the maker went above and beyond?” but that all sounds like a stretch by someone who just can’t fathom that it’s just an aluminum shroud factory made by MPP. Occam’s Razor.
Plus, history tells us the immaculate Obi-Wan ANH lightsaber was given to ‘experts’ to replicate and what we got was the Obi Stunt V1/V2/V3 and not a better replica. They could have made an almost-exact replica but they didn’t. Occam’s Razor.
“But ANH was years ago, maybe they got a better machinist to do the work?”. Again, it sounds like a stretch instead of a simpler solution.
For me it’s the holes drilled for the reflector that make me believe it’s a factory piece and not made by ILM or a SW prop maker. A custom made shroud for an lightsaber will never need to hold a reflector, what’s the point of adding that detail? Even it you have a broken MPP shroud and it’s your task to replicate a new one in Alu/Steel drilling the reflector holes is a bridge too far for me as a lightsaber prop.
Sure, some will say “How do you know?” or “Why wouldn’t they?” or maybe “Perhaps the maker went above and beyond?” but that all sounds like a stretch by someone who just can’t fathom that it’s just an aluminum shroud factory made by MPP. Occam’s Razor.
Plus, history tells us the immaculate Obi-Wan ANH lightsaber was given to ‘experts’ to replicate and what we got was the Obi Stunt V1/V2/V3 and not a better replica. They could have made an almost-exact replica but they didn’t. Occam’s Razor.
“But ANH was years ago, maybe they got a better machinist to do the work?”. Again, it sounds like a stretch instead of a simpler solution.
Rexermus
Active Member
To add on to this point, Pre-Production/Negotiations for Empire started mid-1977, Irvin Kershner was hired in 1978 and filming started in 1979. That's a 1.5 year period max for machining "to improve". Personally, I subscribe to the extremely limited MPP production theory, regardless of whether the shroud is aluminum or steel
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To me, it's pretty clear it wasn't machined by production, when you see what they did when they tried to reproduce a MPP shroud the first time, it's pretty clear, they wouldn't go to the trouble or doing something as accurate and complex than the known ESB shroud. That very basic and very assymetrical square shroud saber being a good example of how quick and dirty they did machine a shroud at one point:
And I still think that particular shroud was a found piece…or different pieces cobbled together.
Sym-Cha
Master Member
Here we have the ESB/ROTJ saber in question currently in possession of Stephen Lane ... now take a good look at the edge ... and then compare that with the width of a cut 2-step shroud (I received this in this state ... so no worries) :
If you would have cut it under an angle it would result in a slightly even wider edge, right? Now having watched many episodes of The Repair Shop UK ... I have learned that with certain short cuts (pun intended) you could achieve a very simple made yet screen-accurate ESB shroud.
Here's what I suggest ... the propmakers might have done ... and I know from personal experience in an LA based special effects shop ... there are always handyman on board any large production that have the capacity to create elaborate props/stuff :
... so you take a 2-step MPP shroud, add some additional layers of say clay/wax or whatever to create a 1-step looking thicker edge shroud ... now since these will also be used to stunt with, you can make several castings in metal with sand-molding (as seen done in The Repair Shop) by using the now converted 2-step MPP shroud as a prototype to create sand molds from. Now you can pour any kind of metal in your sand-mold to make the final copy ... drill the additional 2 reflector holes, paint it black add a D-ring and new thumbscrew and voilà :
*This above picture is a resin casting of a Master Replicas 'MPP' shroud with added magic sculpt to recreate an ESB shroud as an example only.
Until a real thicker edge vintage MPP shroud turns up ... this is as good of a theory as any out there . . . in my humble opinion
Chaïm
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Anakin never did learn to take care with his lightsabers…just look at the condition of that thing.
Does he keep it stored in a bucket of water in his “Scary Castle on the Lava Planet”?
Does he keep it stored in a bucket of water in his “Scary Castle on the Lava Planet”?
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ConvergencePro
Master Member
Agreed.
Personally I like the thinking behind the wartime scarcity of aluminum pushing a limited batch of MPP's made in those years to potentially use other materials. Thickness is gonna be up for debate until someone gets calipers on the hero to confirm, but the thinking that an angle cut will appear slightly thicker is correct, if that is indeed what we are seeing vs seeing a truly thicker wall.
Personally speaking I've rarely ever seen blueprints change their geometry along with a material change, unless there is a specific reason for it, which I frankly don't really see here.
This little knob is aluminum:
Imagine somehow the shroud is aluminum and rusted orange while nothing happened to the knob that's not even painted.
The shroud rust looks just like steel rust ,and where the metal shines on the edges it also shines like steel. The D-ring is chromed, but where the chrome is worn it is also rusted.
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Aluminum corrosion looks like kind of white and gray powdery mess ... Maybe if you threat it with some special chemicals might do something different that looks like rust, I'm not an expert, but I've never seen any other type of corrosion on aluminum parts in my life.
Imagine somehow the shroud is aluminum and rusted orange while nothing happened to the knob that's not even painted.
The shroud rust looks just like steel rust ,and where the metal shines on the edges it also shines like steel. The D-ring is chromed, but where the chrome is worn it is also rusted.
.
Aluminum corrosion looks like kind of white and gray powdery mess ... Maybe if you threat it with some special chemicals might do something different that looks like rust, I'm not an expert, but I've never seen any other type of corrosion on aluminum parts in my life.
Sym-Cha
Master Member
'Oh, no, my young Jedi. You will find that it is you who are mistaken . . . about a great many things.'
Chaïm
I have mailed Stephen Lane asking about the metal of the shroud but haven’t received an answer yet.
When the back paint started to wear off from the shroud there was metal below it, now there's rust in the same place ...
I didn't realize the chrome tube was so... streak-y? looks like it was sanded a little on a lathe
I hope he gets back to you, thank you for doing this!
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