Carbon-Freeze Vader Saber...an MPP. The Definitive ESB

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by lonepigeon, Feb 5, 2002.

  1. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    Alright, this thing has bothered me for awhile.
    This saber looked like a King Sol based on the trigger button on the side. Now having my replica MPP in my hands and turning it around I have second thoughts.

    What if that supposed trigger button is something plugged into the "E" socket of an MPP? The screw above it and the hole below match the MPP screw and rivet holes. The band is lower than the ANH, but not alot. Considering the band is lower the grips probably aren't as long as believed.
    The known MPP in ESB also has the clamp lower than ANH.

    I was also thinking that the Carbon-Freeze saber might have a shroud like the Barbican version, but the step is too shallow- it matches the MPP's shroud as I originally thought.
    So, MPP clamp, shroud and seemingly the tube as well- so the question is what the heck is in the "E" socket!

    Paul- I need your opinion on this!

    <img src=http://www.partsofsw.com/images/vadbesp.jpg>

    2/9/02 Edit- thread title changed, it's no longer a question it's an MPP.
     
  2. PropReplicator

    PropReplicator Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    Don't do this to me, Chris. Not after I finally got a King Sol after looking for almost a year!!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    You know, the thought crossed my mind several times too, esp. when noticing that screw-like thing above the button.

    BUt I figured that was probably the screw that holds the button-plate there. But the problem with this theory is that if this is so, the shroud should be slightly further away from the screw as the shroud can only go so far in as the edge of the button plate.

    But since I have a great Kign Sol (2, in fact), I would rather believe it's a King Sol.. [​IMG]
     
  4. paul n

    paul n Well-Known Member

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    Yes, * the Psycic Monkey has arrived!

    Holly crap, I think you might be right, if that were a King Sol there should be a plate around thebutton and the little screw, which there doesn't apear to be in the above pic. Can you blow it up any more?

    I wonder if it might be a remote plug that they just cut the wire off of. Or maybe the original owner hard wired the plug, like some Graflex owners did (the Graflex's you see on e-bay with the cord coming out of the glass eye socket).

    It could also be an added pice that they thought would just look cool. I think they payed more atention to little details in makeing the ESB props, like the "B" socket on the main MPP saber being painted red and the second red button on Luke saber.

    Hmm. this is wierd, I never liked this version of the vader sabre so I never payed it any mind, but this has peaked my interest. I wish there were more photo's of the * thing.
     
  5. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    That very pic is what made me skeptical of the king sol. I, can clearly see the landmarks of an MPP there. It just makes more sense that they used another or the same MPP. The sabers didn't disappear until before Jedi..........I'm glad another board member sees what I see.
    Dave
     
  6. yoda201

    yoda201 New Member

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    But!!!!!!!! If you look in teh esb storybook, there is an excellant pic of that and you can see square holes! Food for thought
     
  7. paul n

    paul n Well-Known Member

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    Yoda, Can post a pic?

    ~Paul [​IMG]
     
  8. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please post pics of that square-hole ESB saber! Send to me to post if necessary.

    On the pro-KS side, I also remembered someone on the board saying a while back that they spoke to people in LFL who confirmed that King Sols WERE used.
     
  9. paul n

    paul n Well-Known Member

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    But I didn't think LF made the props, Bapty did. I also kinda doubt they would remeber the kind of flash, it's rally not something that would be important to those guys.

    ~Paul [​IMG]
     
  10. yoda201

    yoda201 New Member

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    I am at school-so I do not have the book, the old ESB storybook has a full page color photo of that-and it looked like square holes to me. Does someone have it? Chris
     
  11. PropReplicator

    PropReplicator Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    I thought Bapty just did ANH?

    I have the book at home, put can't get to it until later tonight.
     
  12. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Paul, it might not have been LFL that the boardmember spoke to - I just said LFL on the assumption that it was.

    HOpe that board member will see this and clarify.
    From (my very hazy) memory, it was someone like Gav, or maybe not... dunno...
     
  13. paul n

    paul n Well-Known Member

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    I'm preaty sure Bapty did both ANH and ESB, that's why there's so many similarities between ANH and ESB props and why the ROTJ stuff is so different. It would also explain how they got an MPP for ESB, I realy doubt they would have known what to look for otherwise.

    ~Paul [​IMG]
     
  14. Shadowknight

    Shadowknight Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    AARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG. You guys are killing me here. That better be a King Sol after what I just went thru to get mine. [​IMG]

    Can somebody post that pic that Chris is talking about.
     
  15. Chingon

    Chingon Well-Known Member

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    I have the ESB storybook that Yoda201 is talking about, but no scanner. The pic in the book looks to be the same pic that Lonepigeon posted, just turned on its side and zoomed in on the sabre.
     
  16. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ok

    what scene is this?

    i dont have the pic, but the scene for the saber im building with larrys mpp is the one where hes test freezing han.

    as long as its an mpp in that scene , im a happy man.

    btw, anyone have any good pics of how the grips are supposed to look on this bad boy? ive seen em ranging from slanted to squared off , etc.

    thanks in advance.
    chris
     
  17. PropReplicator

    PropReplicator Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    Chris, that's the very scene we're talking about. It was always been believed to be a King Sol.....until now.[​IMG]
     
  18. Chingon

    Chingon Well-Known Member

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    Found this pic. Anyone have a better version of it??

    [​IMG]
     
  19. yoda201

    yoda201 New Member

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    Yeah but in teh book it is a clearer pic, I still think it is the sol. Chris
     
  20. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    damnation.

    well, if it IS an mpp im happy. thats the only reason i bought the mpp from larry. i wanted to make this saber, as the vader upper body shot is the pic that i have autographed.

    if its not an mpp, damnation.

    just curious, but if this is the "carbon freeze" scene, what do you call the lightsaber battle scene for it? i thought this was the one where vader was whipping luke like a red headed stepchild and dropped him in the carbonite pit.

    chris
     
  21. PropReplicator

    PropReplicator Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    That's the "lightsaber battle scene".


    [​IMG]
     
  22. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ah.

    see, ive been calling it the "vader whipping *" scene since ive been old enough to see it. i just remember vader owning luke one handed , and then making luke one handed.

    i figured carbon freeze meant when he tried to deepfreeze luke.

    we really need to get together as a group one day and sort out what scenes called what by who. itll help save confusion.

    chris
     
  23. Shadowknight

    Shadowknight Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>PropReplicator wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>That's the "lightsaber battle scene".


    [​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Makes sense to me. [​IMG]
     
  24. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Here's another shot, which is basically the same as the one Lonepidgeon posted, except zoomed out, so you can see the context.

    [attachmentid=448]

    Yoda201, you talking about this pic??

    In the even-more zoomed-out shot, he's standing next to Fett, which makes this the carbon-freeze-shortly-before-lightsaber-fight-and-luke-whupping scene. BTW, another interesting thing to note about this pic is whether bubbles or the circuit board was used.
    If you count those 'things' (mostly covered by the * cloak), you will see that there are actually 6 of those bits, which suggests bubbles. And if they WERE bubbles, that might also suggest an ANH-modified MPP.
     
  25. yoda201

    yoda201 New Member

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    That is what i am talking about, but I was sure you could see teh edges of the circuit board. Chris
     
  26. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    So THAT'S the pic where you saw square holes?

    I can barely see the holes...
     
  27. yoda201

    yoda201 New Member

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    I think that is it. Chris Always looked square to me although there is a higher quality 8X10 floating around as well
     
  28. Reel Fakes

    Reel Fakes Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    From the storybook:
    <img src=http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=560693&size=lg>
    <img src=http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=560694&size=lg>
     
  29. Justin WFCOMICS

    Justin WFCOMICS Well-Known Member

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    *... I knew I should have bought it.

    When I was at Universal Studios in CA, one of the TFAW stores in their mall area (I think there was two) had a postcard with a great shot of Vader in the freezing chamber standing by himself with more of the saber showing. It looks a lot like the shots shown above, but without Fett, it was a head to toe shot and he was turned in a way (or the cape was posed in a way) that more of the saber could be seen.

    Anyone know which postcard I'm talking about?

    Justin =)
     
  30. yoda201

    yoda201 New Member

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    Justin, that is what i was talking about! Now to find it! Chris
     
  31. E.D.C. Studios

    E.D.C. Studios Well-Known Member

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    OK I am convinced its an MPP with bubbles no less.

    Look below, see how there seems to be one hole above that greebly?

    <img src=http://members.aol.com/edcstudios/holes.gif>
     
  32. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Great scans, Jedipunk!

    Justin, looks like you gotta take another trip to Universal Studios!!! [​IMG]

    Hey I know, all this is a ploy to make me sell my 2 King Sol's, isn't it? isn't it? [​IMG]
    Jeez... next thing you'll all tell me Luke's ANH/ESB saber was not a Graflex!!! [​IMG]
     
  33. SinkTube Jedi

    SinkTube Jedi Well-Known Member

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  34. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    All these pictures posted scream MPP with bubbles, no less, and something plugged into the sinc cord socket. The only difference in this and the ANH saber is longer grips guys.
    Dave
     
  35. paul n

    paul n Well-Known Member

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    Can some one zoom in on the clamp? If I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing this might not be a different saber, but the same one that PoSW has a pic of at the top of their ESB Vader page sans one part.

    ~Paul [​IMG]
     
  36. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    There, which one does it look like? Just noticed that under the button/thingy in the real picture, there looks to be a spot, which would seem to correspond to the hole of the MPP where the MPP plate would go.

    hmmm...
     
  37. vaderdarth

    vaderdarth Master Member

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    Those holes for the sinc cord are definitely oval.......look at the reflection, definitely round and not squared off.........which would appear as straight lines.
    Dave
     
  38. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove Sr Member

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    Looks like the MPP to me, and I have had both also.


    Yep, it's an MPP.
     
  39. hydin

    hydin Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    man, its times like this we need Some Dude to go hit the archives and bug some people [​IMG]

    chris
     
  40. paul n

    paul n Well-Known Member

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    Does any one have a better, or higher rez version of this pic?
    I really need a good close up of that clamp.
     
  41. Justin WFCOMICS

    Justin WFCOMICS Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Oohyeah KL wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Justin, looks like you gotta take another trip to Universal Studios!!! [​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>I wish [​IMG]!! I really liked Southern California. *sigh*... finances prohibit a visit anytime soon.

    Justin =)
    "Still stuck in Ohio..."
     
  42. Dan Verdi

    Dan Verdi Well-Known Member

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    Not all King Sols have both the vertical and horizontal socket, as pictured above (Oohyeah KL's pic). I have to go back right up to the top of this thread and ask what Chris is asking: If it's not a King Sol, what is the "button" cusp in one of the "MPP" holes? Until that is definitively answered and identified, I'm sticking with my original King Sol theory.

    -Dan
     
  43. SinkTube Jedi

    SinkTube Jedi Well-Known Member

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    Did not this get hashed out to hell on ASAP!

    Looks like a King Sol to me!
     
  44. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I'm with Paul- Where did that pic come from?
    It isn't the storybook pic or a closeup of the pic of Vader and Fett (that one doesn't show the bubbles, his cape covers the band).
    So that is the third pic to show this lightsaber and it looks like one of the best.

    The button- best guess right now seems like the base of a sync cord, but it doesn't look like the ones I've seen.

    Are the grips longer? or is it just that the band is lower than the ANH? I think maybe a bit of both.

    We need a bigger version of that pic OohYeahKL posted!
    I'll go dig through more I've my reference and see if I can come up with something.
    Edit- that is the same pic as in the storybook but bigger/showing more.
     
  45. Barnstormer

    Barnstormer Well-Known Member

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    Check me on this - the storybook picture shows the whole hilt. To the best of my knowledge, King Sols have a distinct endcap with no threading on the outside and a very narrow rounded/ridged 'coin edge' on the bottom, while the MPP has the thick, straight ridged endcap and threads on the outside. Does anyone have large and clear enough of a scan to see the bottom of the hilt?

    Justin - It's a postcard, man. They can't only exist in California. I've got to run to Chicago Comics and see what they have, I know they have some SW postcards but don't know which ones. Gotta try Suncoast, too. We should be able to find this.

    Checked the inside gatefold to the original soundtrack album, no luck. Gotta go through my piles of reference and see what versions of this photo I may have. This is the sort of pic I usually ignore now, because I've seen it so many times!

    Now, if I find it, I've got to get my scanner working again...
     
  46. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the picture I posted is the same shot as in the storybook pic, except it shows a bit more of the hilt, including the clamp and top part of the grips. But it's the same shot as the storybook pic, so it's of no extra use if we're looking at the button/port holes.

    In fact, it's also the same shot as the pic Chris/lonepigeon posted.
    In other words (just so that we are all clear about this), all pics posted so far are the same shot, apart from the one Sithlife323 posted, which is of the same scene but with Vader turned away more so less of the saber is visible.

    Can't remember where I got my pic from, but if I'm not mistaken it could be from the ASAP Defined thread.

    BTW, interesting to note too that on the sidebar of the clamp, the round greeblie there looks rather large too, unlike what the end of the lever screw would look like, and more like the head of a nail, ie., what we seem to have concluded was used on the ANH version.
     
  47. Corellianexports

    Corellianexports Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Hmm...I think I bought that very postcard while I was at Universal Citywalk just a few weeks back.

    I'll have to check it out.

    I can post it if I've got it.
     
  48. clanger68

    clanger68 Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    Here is a shot which I hope will help.
    I'm afraid my scanner isn't the greatest but hopefully you can make out the image okay. I got a whole bunch of shots at a convention here in the UK a while ago, this is the only one I have with the saber in it. I'm not familiar with the King Sol but this does not look like my HK MPP.
    Has the King Sol button come off in this shot?
    Thats what it looks like to me.
    Hope its useful,
     
  49. Oohyeah KL

    Oohyeah KL Well-Known Member

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    EXCELLENT PIC!!!

    The plot thickens..! [​IMG]

    Does that look like the port holes having a chunk cut out??

    EDIT: hmm... maybe the MPP got wrecked this way, and they put something there (ie, the button thingy) to cover the hole?

    Great view of the 'nail head' on the clamp too. Looks like the type of stepped pin head similar to the one on my Bolsey.
     
  50. Ham Solo

    Ham Solo Well-Known Member

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    I'm starting to think that it's an MPP, not a King Sol.

    This is a great thread. Lots of good pics and theories.
     

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