Captain Marvel

[firesprite]

On YouTube there seem to be a few videos about this movie having low audience expectations and stuff about Brie Larson doing “damage control”... I haven’t watched any of those videos so I can't say what they were all about. I avoid all news so I can go to the screening with a clear head.

I even hear some saying this movie could herald the downfall of the MCU - which sounds utterly ridiculous. (Didn't they say that about Ant-Man?) Even if it was bad it would take much more than one film to wreck the MCU fandom.

I have my tickets for the end of this week so I'll see for myself. The only way I might be disappointed is if it ends up wearing a feminist message too much on its own sleeve - which is not how I recall Ms. Marvel from the comics of the 1970's and 80's. The comics would have been cringey if she, say, constantly battled against symbols of male chauvinism. I thought the comics made a stronger statement by simply depicting her with inherent credibility and independence. As a teenager I just thought she was a cool character with a cool design standing toe-to-toe with other superheroes who also had nothing to prove.

Those comments appear to be mostly heralded by a disproportionate degree of anger generated by Brie Larson demanding a more diverse press pool for the coverage of the film (more women, more people of color, rather than the usual endless parade of white dudes), and by her saying that she wants a more diverse audience as well (again, more women, more people of color). Some guys hear that and take it as an attack on them for some reason.

 

[dascoyne]

Those comments appear to be mostly heralded by a disproportionate degree of anger generated by Brie Larson demanding a more diverse press pool for the coverage of the film (more women, more people of color, rather than the usual endless parade of white dudes), and by her saying that she wants a more diverse audience as well (again, more women, more people of color). Some guys hear that and take it as an attack on them for some reason.

Ahhh... For arguments’ sake even if it was the case, that’s a far, far cry from defining a bad film, much less the “end of the MCU.” Gee whiz, if that’s all she said, then her opinion isn’t dissimilar to 98% of Hollywood.

I did cringe when Chris Evans (and 90% of Hollywood) prematurely condemned those Covington School kids in D. C. (before the facts surfaced), but Brie’s statement, in comparison, doesn’t seem worth the attention. And this is coming from someone who is, admittedly, easily provoked by “SJW” hyperbole.

 

[firesprite]

Found a story about the original comments that started the furor

Brie Larson Calls for Diversity in Movie Reviews in Speech

 

[CutThumb]

Its been interesting to see how certain areas of social media have quickly shifted their attention from Star Wars TLJ, Star Trek: Discovery and onto Captain Marvel.

I stand by my comment made years ago in TLJ thread that everybody involved now in making these films and TV series needs to carefully consider the impact from any press and social media coverage about any comments that they might make, no matter how innocuous, its just being seized on as used to propagate negative feedback .

And where as I don' t disagree at all with many of the critisisms levelled about "The Last Jedi" / ST: Discovery at all, because of the often poor writing and character development, I have grown fed up by the constant attacks on everything perceived as even slightly threatening to some, which is all being driven by the need to push up how much money certain people can make from the various social media streaming platforms.

Unfortunately this has now seems to have transferred itself onto CM. I find myself wondering if the same will apply to the new "The Black Widow" movie ?

Out of interest prebookings for CM are well ahead of "Wonder Woman" and "Aquaman" at the moment, but in comparison to other MCU movies there is no current information.

Disney has also said it be the first MCU film that will not be available to Netflix, as all that content is now flipping to the Disney streaming service, which makes sense if they are trying to build a catalogue of content to rival other services.

CM is not predicted to take the massive box office that other MCU films have done, origin first stories generally don't, but it is thought it will do quite well if not better than most of them, ie Ant man, Thor, Dr Strange, Captain America etc

But I think many people are now wondering about just how the BO performance of single female lead action characters is to be dealt with and what effect all this negativity will actually have going forward.

Certainly the BO results from "Alita", "Ghost in the Shell", "Tomb Raider" and "Atomic Blonde" have not been that strong at all, compared to the investment , the exception to the rule being "Wonder Woman", though it was a pretty damn impressive one it easily remains my favourite DC film by a large margin.

The best movies and series I have seen of late seem to be ones where, as in real life, the character mix is just right.

"Russian Doll" , "The Umbrella Academy", "The Expanse", "Game of Thrones", "The Orville" are all powerful examples of this. The writing is excellent, all the characters are well treated and get great development over the story arcs. I don't care about the gender politics as long as they hold my interest. My absolute gold star for a series last year was "Killing Eve" and perhaps this year "Russian Doll" where it is the lead female character who is as badly flawed as the male but its compulsive watching what they do on screen to save eachother from their own sins..

So I don't think "Captain Marvel", given the range of the cast involved, particularly Sam Jackson,as Nick Fury, will be any different, even with Brie as the first female lead I think it will be an absolutely great and entertaining MCU movie

 

[dascoyne]

I don’t think any of the stats for female lead films applies here, just as stats for all black cast movies didn’t apply to Black Panther. This is what Hollywood speculators still don’t get. Black Panther wasn’t a hit because it was a “black movie.” It was a hit because it was a good story with solid characters riding on the back of the MCU. I think CM will succeed or fail based on those same qualities. That won’t stop Hollywood from sophomorically interpreting success as a demand for more female superheroes (c.f. WW) and interpreting a failure as evidence of public sexism (c.f. Ghostbusters 2016).

 

[firesprite]

I don’t think any of the stats for female lead films applies here, just as stats for all black cast movies didn’t apply to Black Panther. This is what Hollywood speculators still don’t get. Black Panther wasn’t a hit because it was a “black movie.” It was a hit because it was a good story with solid characters riding on the back of the MCU. I think CM will succeed or fail based on those same qualities. That won’t stop Hollywood from sophomorically interpreting success as a demand for more female superheroes (c.f. WW) and interpreting a failure as evidence of public sexism (c.f. Ghostbusters 2016).

I think it's more complicated than that, to be honest. There is an extremely vocal contingent on the Internet that sees something that is not geared specifically to appeal to the stereotypical 18-45 white male demographic as some sort of attack on them personally and they are very aggressive about retaliation.

For example, if you look at Rotten Tomatoes right now, the audience "want to see" score for CM has been plummeting because of this contingent. Seriously. Go and look at the comments. Most of the "not interested" votes have nothing to do with the film and everything to do with being mad about the star stating she wants more diversity around the film.

For some reason, there is a perception that representation is a zero-sum game. That somehow if a superhero film is intended to appeal to women, or people of color, or both, that it is somehow taking away from the white male contingent (again, look at the words the comments are using regarding CM), when the reality is that there is unlikely to ever be an actual shortage of media geared toward the white male audience. There just seem to be some who can't stand to share, and I find that incredibly disappointing.

 

[Snikt]

I just dont want her to single handedly beat Thanos/Save the day in Endgame. The Russos even said they had to depower her a bit cause she is too strong, especially for the MCU. Because in the infinity gauntlet storyline in the comics, she isnt even in it. But the IG storyline involves a lot more philosophical elements, and the infinity gauntlet itself is way more of a burden than it is in the MCU. Guess we will wait and see.

 

[dascoyne]

I think it's more complicated than that, to be honest. There is an extremely vocal contingent on the Internet that sees something that is not geared specifically to appeal to the stereotypical 18-45 white male demographic as some sort of attack on them personally and they are very aggressive about retaliation.

For example, if you look at Rotten Tomatoes right now, the audience "want to see" score for CM has been plummeting because of this contingent. Seriously. Go and look at the comments. Most of the "not interested" votes have nothing to do with the film and everything to do with being mad about the star stating she wants more diversity around the film.

For some reason, there is a perception that representation is a zero-sum game. That somehow if a superhero film is intended to appeal to women, or people of color, or both, that it is somehow taking away from the white male contingent (again, look at the words the comments are using regarding CM), when the reality is that there is unlikely to ever be an actual shortage of media geared toward the white male audience. There just seem to be some who can't stand to share, and I find that incredibly disappointing.

I agree there's an outspoken group but I also believe they represent an insignificant minority of folks compared with the general viewing public regardless of what their specific core issues might be with Brie's statements.

Whenever there's a production that raises any controversy, whether positive or negative, there is likely a vocal an active group that will disproportionately influence the pre-screening "want to see" RT stats. The general public doesn't really have enough interest to vote for the "want to see" stats. In these cases it, therefore, invalidates the relevance of that percentage because it doesn't speak for the general public. Self-proclaimed Hollywood pundits who predict poor reception based on those stats don't understand simple statistical sampling error.

Didn't the "want to see" RT stats for BvS track at >90% before release? In retrospect these stats were inflated by a vocal minority who also didn't reflect general public or critical sentiment.

It only takes a handful of folks to be offended and probably most of them are provoked by second-hand information. My point is that while those outspoken folks may be white and male I think they represent but a small portion the "stereotypical 18-45 white male demographic." Unless she said something that was overtly hostile I really don't see most men caring to let that affect their viewing experience.

The weakness of my perspective is that I am still avoiding reading any direct accounts of Brie's statements. It's entirely possible she might have said something that I consider sufficiently offensive enough to bias my premiere viewing experience. So I accept there could even be a slight possibility I might change my tune when I start reading articles after this week. But given what you've described so far it doesn't seem to be the case.

My point is only that the low "want to see" RT stats are meaningless. Unless there's other information in the news I've been avoiding I suspect the film is going to do reasonably well - if only for the fact that it's a vital prelude to Endgame.

 

[firesprite]

I just dont want her to single handedly beat Thanos/Save the day in Endgame. The Russos even said they had to depower her a bit cause she is too strong, especially for the MCU. Because in the infinity gauntlet storyline in the comics, she isnt even in it. But the IG storyline involves a lot more philosophical elements, and the infinity gauntlet itself is way more of a burden than it is in the MCU. Guess we will wait and see.

I really doubt that she will be the one to single-handedly fix Thanos' handiwork. I'm quite certain it's going to require lots of science-y stuff and finesse, and Carol has always been much more of a "I just want to punch the problem" kind of gal.

I wouldn't worry too much. I'm 99.9% sure the the resolution of the IG storyline will be a team effort.

 

[Snikt]

I really doubt that she will be the one to single-handedly fix Thanos' handiwork. I'm quite certain it's going to require lots of science-y stuff and finesse, and Carol has always been much more of a "I just want to punch the problem" kind of gal.

I wouldn't worry too much. I'm 99.9% sure the the resolution of the IG storyline will be a team effort.

If she does though, youre going to hear about it firesprite.

 

[firesprite]

If she does though, youre going to hear about it firesprite.

Pft. Bring it. I'd love to be in the sort of position where I could influence the MCU. LOL

 

[dascoyne]

I just dont want her to single handedly beat Thanos/Save the day in Endgame. The Russos even said they had to depower her a bit cause she is too strong, especially for the MCU. Because in the infinity gauntlet storyline in the comics, she isnt even in it. But the IG storyline involves a lot more philosophical elements, and the infinity gauntlet itself is way more of a burden than it is in the MCU. Guess we will wait and see.

Well this Infinity Gauntlet storyline seems to be incorporating elements of the earlier Thanos/Cosmic Cube story in which Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell) is pretty important.

 

[CutThumb]

Ha, this negative review thing has got out of hand. Rotten Tomatoes has disabled it and certain youtubers have predictably reacted to that. Your average cinema goer will show little interest in it anyway.

 

[Paul Andrew]

Going to buy my tickets today. My 11 and 13 year olds are going to have a blast on opening night.

 

[firesprite]

Going to buy my tickets today. My 11 and 13 year olds are going to have a blast on opening night.

I'm torn. I kind of want to go to the big shindig Regal is doing Thursday night. They're giving away military-style challenge coins which look SWEET... but, you know... people are kind of gross and part of me would rather go to a (theoretically) less crowded matinee.

 

[Paul Andrew]

I'm torn. I kind of want to go to the big shindig Regal is doing Thursday night. They're giving away military-style challenge coins which look SWEET... but, you know... people are kind of gross and part of me would rather go to a (theoretically) less crowded matinee.

We usually hit opening night at the local Harkins, baby permitting. The Thursday showings are definitely getting fuller now, but we still get decent seats most of the time.

 

[Dessa]

I'm torn. I kind of want to go to the big shindig Regal is doing Thursday night. They're giving away military-style challenge coins which look SWEET... but, you know... people are kind of gross and part of me would rather go to a (theoretically) less crowded matinee.

AMC is doing it too, looks like. But there's only 5 theaters in the Seattle area doing it. I want the coin, too, but...

 

[Egon Spengler]

This just looks bad to me. I'll see it eventually, just as I've seen all the MCU films, but this really has nothing in it that draws my interest except maybe seeing how Fury loses his eye, if that's even in it at all. Personally, I'd rather that be left a mystery in the MCU. If it turns out the cat is a Skrull and it takes his eye, that's just stupid.

 

[firesprite]

This just looks bad to me. I'll see it eventually, just as I've seen all the MCU films, but this really has nothing in it that draws my interest except maybe seeing how Fury loses his eye, if that's even in it at all. Personally, I'd rather that be left a mystery in the MCU. If it turns out the cat is a Skrull and it takes his eye, that's just stupid.

So, like... don't see it? No one's holding a gun to your head to make you go see it (or at least, I hope not). There's no rule that says every marvel movie has to be everyone's cup of tea.

 

[matty matt]

I think Marvel has earned the benefit of the doubt here. Do people really think they're going to pull a Ryan Reynolds GL with this one?