Captain America Costume Discussion

[nick daring]

Here's a quick review of the previous incarnations of Cap's screen appearances.

First there was the Captain America (1944) Movie Serial with Dick Purcell playing our hero. However the character was more of a basic vigilante versus the mob character with practically none of the traditional comic's story elements. No shield, no super serum, no nazis, and worst of all no little wings on his head. :rolleyes

Then there was the two 70's tv movies with Reb Brown. They are pretty terrible and the costume and shield are about as retarded as you can get.

Next up we have the 1990 version of Cap starring Matt Salinger ( Son of JD Salinger!)

The first ten minutes of the flick are kinda cool. You have Steve Rogers, the super serum, Nazis, a creepy looking Red Skull and pretty cool lighting and dramatic set design.

As per the conventions of Marvel history Cap gets stuck in ice and then we get an hour of sucky Cheesy sitcom "fish out of water" stuff with Steve Rogers and we find out that Red Skull is no longer has a Red Skull (and he's portrayed as italian instead of German? WTF??? ) ????

Red Skull without the "red skull" = terrible.

We also have to put up with Ned "Mista Lutha" Beatty for far too long in the flick as well. And seeing Cap's colorful costume in broad daylight through the rest of the film is just hard to deal with. The costume even gets made fun of by the characters as Cap is about to be dropped into the Nazi stronghold. I hate when they do that in superhero movies.

The best nugget of weirdness about Cap's costume in this flick is the rubber ears. If you look at many of the fan costumes you'll notice how when they turn their head the cowl's ear holes have a tendancy to strech and deform the solid look of the mask. Instead of building an under helmet structure they went with simply attaching rubber ears. Sigh...

As lame as the rubber ears are, my main beef with this costume are eyeholes actually. The material between the eyeholes is about a half inch to wide and causes him to appear continuously cross-eyed. If you look at the first picture, you'll see what I mean.

There you have folks Cap on screen.

Nick

 

[jedi.si]

I always preferred the "spandex" type cossie over the WW2 version, but like's been said it looks terrible if worn by the wrong type of build, loving this thread.

 

[CyberLieutenant]

With all due respect to the many varied opinions, I am going to say that I would have to go with the 'classic' comic style every time.

As a former soldier I would have laughed out loud if someone turned up in the WW2 get up. Whereas (ironically) the classic style fits with a super hero where you are already suspending your disbelief. Hey if it is good enough for Spidey and Superman on the big screen to not change, why meddle with an icon?

I would caveat my opinion by stating that as a non-American my thoughts on the icon should not necessarily carry the same weight as those of a US citizen.

 

[dualedge]

Man, what were they smoking when they came up with that Reb Brown costume with the vertical stripes that go over the shoulders? That's crazy... I mean, all of those Reb Brown tv costumes were annoying because of the helmets and the clear shields but that costume in particular was just awful.

I actually enjoyed the Salinger Captain America movie though I gotta agree on the ears. That has always mentally plagued me... why did they go to the trouble to have rubber ears? Would cutting a hole in the rubber make it at risk for tearing or something? It just makes no other sense to me and the photos where the ear bends horizontally just drive me insane.

I don't mind most of the main elements of the classic costume but I definitely find the head fins to be too much. I just find the "Ultimate Universe" Cap to be much more believable... Colorful but not Mardi-Gras-parade colorful

 

[KnightAsylum]

I did really like the 1990 movie version of his shield. It had some raised texture to the stripes and star which I really liked. That is what I am looking for in a fan made shield as well (and why kiddie snow slide will not work for me):rolleyes

A little sad that I have seen that movie a few times and never noticed the fake ears...

 

[Solo4114]

I think there are several key components to a Cap that looks good.

1.) The right kind of actor with the right kind of build. I'm talking about being more than just a lantern-jawed guy. Cap is muscular in a particular way. He's incredibly strong and powerful but he's also nimble and athletic instead of bulky. Finding an actor with that build would be crucial to filling out the costume and not having it look bad. Again, Brandon Routh's Superman is physically excellent for the role. I thought Tobey MacGuire's Spiderman was also quite good. These guys were physically built well enough that they believably filled out their respective costumes. To a lesser degree, I thought Ben Affleck's Daredevil was, physically speaking at least, the right kind of look for the character.

2.) Costume material. This is CRITICAL because the wrong material will make the right build look like crap and will make the whole thing look low-budget. Reb Brown is an INCREDIBLY beefy guy (just ask the MST3K guys -- Big McLargehuge! Slab Steakfist!) but the 70s spandex doesn't mold to the body well enough. Likewise, Matt Salinger LOOKS like he's a pretty muscular guy, but his costume doesn't really let you see it clearly except in silhouette. There's nowhere near enough detail. By contrast, the Spidey and Superman costumes contour to the body well enough that they make the characters look muscular even though they don't acheive comicbook levels of muscle definition. Affleck's costume was good too, but they went a different route with the molded leather look. That fits Daredevil, and might work for Cap as well, at least material-wise. The other thing that's critical is how the costume retains shape. If the material is too bulky and thick, it'll ripple like you see in the one shot of Salinger's shoulder. So costume material is a really fine balancing point.

3.) The mask. This is probably one of the hardest parts of the costume to do well because comic book style masks DON'T EXIST. Wolverine's head fins, while cool looking, wouldn't work without some plastic, leather, or something like that underlying the fabric. Cap's mask has to be thin enough to look believable, but thick enough to retain a shape so it doesn't warp, stretch, ripple, etc. The Daredevil compromise (again, shaped leather or some sort of latex) works...ok...for the film, but still looks weird. A good Cap mask would be an amazing feat of costume design, I think, and it'll involve a good bit of subtle engineering under the cloth.

 

[Darth Mule]

I think they have the same tailor! :lol

 

[KnightAsylum]

I just wanted to point out that if you look at what we had for "real" versions of comic book heroes in the 70's (like the capt A above or even the TV Spidey) when I was a kid, you may better understand why I don't gripe and complain more about the current superhero movies...come on...look how far we have come. Even the worst current movie, sooooo much more what I wanted to see as a kid over the 70's stuff that I ended up with.:rolleyes

 

[TMP]

Well i whould imagine a similar mask to the new Dark knight (batman) This new batman mask is no cowl as we normaly know. Its a neck then a seperate armored mask so he can move his head normal.

I also belive the suit will be of a cevlar type armor.

A cevlar vest with crotch peice. almost like a swimsuit, with armored shoulder bicep and gauntlets. I will try to draw one up how i think i whould made him.

 

[fettster]

I think this would translate onto film well, in fact, im very tempted to make this a wearable cowl myself.

 

[darkesword2020]

Check out Jarvis's thread from the dented helmet, (through me, here : http://therpf.com/showthread.php?t=45453) - Original thread,


And here's a quick copy and paste of the original thread to this thread.

Darkesword 2020 is posting this for me, I'm Jarvis from the Dented Helmet.

"I wanted to show a Capt. America sculpt I was working on, the design of wich came from the Ultimates storieline, When finished it would have leather straps to connect the chin piece. I'm starting a new Army of Two sculpt and might be tearing this sculpt down to do it. Before the tear down does anyone have any feedback on weather or not to mold and cast this piece?
Thanks
Jarvis on the ( TDH )"

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Fixer2020/Picture045.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Fixer2020/Picture047.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Fixer2020/Picture052.jpg

 

[Darth Mule]

So I was working on my designs for a production of Sweeney Todd I'll be working on in the fall and decided I needed a little change of pace, so I found myself coming back and reading over this thread. My money's still on the WW2 cap for a 40s setting, and it seems the majority of us are in agreement on that. However, I still wanted to mess around with the modern look.

I took alot of the suggestions and ideas in this thread and played around with them until I came up with something I liked. I found myself amalgamating several of the ideas discussed here (sorry, no spandex tho).

Some ballistic type armor for the chest and shoulders, sculpted leather (ala DD) on the torso and helmet. Helmet, gloves and boots inspired by the Ultimate Cap. I kept the BDU pants idea, because it's far more functional and realistic for a soldier than tights.

I still kept wanting to put chainmail on him, but was having trouble dealing with the idea of it until I remembered the woven fabric mail that we used to simulate mail when I worked at Utah Shakespeare, that was later adopted and used purposefully for its stylized look on camera for Jafaa (sp?) armor on Stargate.Thought it would be the perfect way to faithfully fill in one of my least favorite aspects of Cap's costume... Those stupid white sleeves!!!

Still not sure about the wings though. I left them off this time.

I know not everyone is going to like this interpretation. It's the nature of the beast. Can't please everyone. I would however welcome comment. What do you think? I've always been fascinated by the costume design transition from page to screen. Thought I'd give it a go and share it with my fellow RPFers.

Sorry, no color yet. If anyone wants to dabble in photoshop, feel free.

 

[cavedwellar]

I like that!

 

[The Manlet]

I think there are several key components to a Cap that looks good.

1.) The right kind of actor with the right kind of build. I'm talking about being more than just a lantern-jawed guy. Cap is muscular in a particular way. He's incredibly strong and powerful but he's also nimble and athletic instead of bulky. Finding an actor with that build would be crucial to filling out the costume and not having it look bad. Again, Brandon Routh's Superman is physically excellent for the role. I thought Tobey MacGuire's Spiderman was also quite good. These guys were physically built well enough that they believably filled out their respective costumes. To a lesser degree, I thought Ben Affleck's Daredevil was, physically speaking at least, the right kind of look for the character.

2.) Costume material. This is CRITICAL because the wrong material will make the right build look like crap and will make the whole thing look low-budget. Reb Brown is an INCREDIBLY beefy guy (just ask the MST3K guys -- Big McLargehuge! Slab Steakfist!) but the 70s spandex doesn't mold to the body well enough. Likewise, Matt Salinger LOOKS like he's a pretty muscular guy, but his costume doesn't really let you see it clearly except in silhouette. There's nowhere near enough detail. By contrast, the Spidey and Superman costumes contour to the body well enough that they make the characters look muscular even though they don't acheive comicbook levels of muscle definition. Affleck's costume was good too, but they went a different route with the molded leather look. That fits Daredevil, and might work for Cap as well, at least material-wise. The other thing that's critical is how the costume retains shape. If the material is too bulky and thick, it'll ripple like you see in the one shot of Salinger's shoulder. So costume material is a really fine balancing point.

3.) The mask. This is probably one of the hardest parts of the costume to do well because comic book style masks DON'T EXIST. Wolverine's head fins, while cool looking, wouldn't work without some plastic, leather, or something like that underlying the fabric. Cap's mask has to be thin enough to look believable, but thick enough to retain a shape so it doesn't warp, stretch, ripple, etc. The Daredevil compromise (again, shaped leather or some sort of latex) works...ok...for the film, but still looks weird. A good Cap mask would be an amazing feat of costume design, I think, and it'll involve a good bit of subtle engineering under the cloth.

You have to take into account in both the spider man and the latest superman film they used muscle suits. In spidey 3 toby was no where near the shape he was in for the first film. In spidey 3 he was from what i understand 5'10 and 148 So that would make us both the same size while spidey 3 was shooting. With out the muscle suit toby would look more like the ditko spider man. If they use a spandex or stretch lycra for the costume a muscle suit would be used with out a doubt. That stuff compresses your body and hides any muscle definition.

And I'd cast my vote for this Cap suit

 

[KnightAsylum]

I never have understood why Cap needs ammo pouches? He doesn't even use gadgets?
I understand that the idea is just an artist way of giving him an older military look, but since it seem like that is the only reason it just does not work for me. There must be some other way to give him a WWII look then to thow some useless Army gear on him. Unless he is using them for something they just look bad to me. I suppose if you gave him small folding shields to pull out of the pockets and throw, a cap-grapple gun, and some Red,White & Blue smoke bombs or something at least he would have a reason for the belt, or better yet just give him a gun, then he can carry ammo in his ammo belt.:rolleyes

 

[dualedge]

You have to take into account in both the spider man and the latest superman film they used muscle suits. In spidey 3 toby was no where near the shape he was in for the first film. In spidey 3 he was from what i understand 5'10 and 148 So that would make us both the same size while spidey 3 was shooting. With out the muscle suit toby would look more like the ditko spider man. If they use a spandex or stretch lycra for the costume a muscle suit would be used with out a doubt. That stuff compresses your body and hides any muscle definition.

And of course, it's worth mentioning that it's not just muscle suits either but as we all know, the Spidey suit was further enhanced with the screen-printing to make the musculature more defined. I don't know if they did as much of that on the Superman Returns costume but they definitely had the slim muscle suit underneath to enhance Routh's own muscles. And with modern muscle suits, they're made so much better that there's less chance of that folding muscle look from the Salinger Captain American suit or even from some of the earlier Batman suits.

I just hope they find a good balance between updating it while still keeping enough of that classic look. Not everybody is gonna be happy obviously but hopefully they'll find the right look.

Knight, good point about the ammo pouches! I like the look of them but never stopped to think why he'd have them

 

[Talisen]

Come on! He keeps his candy bars and energy drinks in them!

Though the red, white, and blue smoke grenade would be a killer idea!

 

[The Manlet]

I never have understood why Cap needs ammo pouches? He doesn't even use gadgets?
I understand that the idea is just an artist way of giving him an older military look, but since it seem like that is the only reason it just does not work for me. There must be some other way to give him a WWII look then to thow some useless Army gear on him. Unless he is using them for something they just look bad to me. I suppose if you gave him small folding shields to pull out of the pockets and throw, a cap-grapple gun, and some Red,White & Blue smoke bombs or something at least he would have a reason for the belt, or better yet just give him a gun, then he can carry ammo in his ammo belt.:rolleyes

I always thought he carried rations and maybe a first add kit.... Jut my thought on it

 

[Darth Mule]

I never have understood why Cap needs ammo pouches? He doesn't even use gadgets?
I understand that the idea is just an artist way of giving him an older military look, but since it seem like that is the only reason it just does not work for me. There must be some other way to give him a WWII look then to thow some useless Army gear on him. Unless he is using them for something they just look bad to me. I suppose if you gave him small folding shields to pull out of the pockets and throw, a cap-grapple gun, and some Red,White & Blue smoke bombs or something at least he would have a reason for the belt, or better yet just give him a gun, then he can carry ammo in his ammo belt.:rolleyes

I always thought he carried rations and maybe a first add kit.... Jut my thought on it

That's what I figured GZ. I mean, soldiers wear pouches. Doesn't mean they've got a Batman grapple gun in there. You CAN put more than gadgets in a pouch if you're a superhero. I particularly like the detail on the WW2 cap where he has a canteen strapped to his side. What kind of gadgets do you think he had in there? Water maybe?

Also... Hasn't Cap carried a gun in one or two incarnations?

 

[KnightAsylum]

That's what I figured GZ. I mean, soldiers wear pouches. Doesn't mean they've got a Batman grapple gun in there. You CAN put more than gadgets in a pouch if you're a superhero. I particularly like the detail on the WW2 cap where he has a canteen strapped to his side. What kind of gadgets do you think he had in there? Water maybe?

Also... Hasn't Cap carried a gun in one or two incarnations?

Well, Sarcasm aside - Then give him a gun, or take them away HEY ARE AMMO POUCHES, even if he is using them for another purpose - in a world were no one eats, drinks or seems to get first aid all that stuff seems useless. PLUS he is a super soldier, not needing any of that. Carrying canteen for water :confused
The answer was there the whole time, forget the enhanced speed and strength, or the indestructible shield, all the Red Skull needs to do is take away his canteen of water, he will not be able to re-hydrate in the middle of battle and will weaken and fall.:lol
Actually since we never see him pee in the comic either, I don't see a reason he should carry water - with no way to "get rid of it later".