Captain America: Civil War

[dascoyne]

After seeing everything there is so far i can't help but feel as if this isn't what im expecting from a CW movie. CW being one of my fav stories and which was on such a grand scale seems to have diminished quite a bit. I do hope that im wrong and that there is more at stake then purely cap defending bucky.

When CW was initially announced anybody who was a fan of the comic had to understand that it couldn't be the same story at all. I had always imagined that CW would some day be done as a series of films and across TV so I was also disappointed ... but that was over a year ago. Since then I've had time to process what the film might actually entail and I got over my disappointment but my expectations remained pretty low. So the trailer was a pleasant surprise.
Were you expecting a faithful adaptation in a single film?

 

[Mektar]

nope ofc not else this would have to be split up into multiple movies. I was merely referring to the scale of it. Just doesnt seem to be that grand as of what you would expect from a civil war movie. After seeing the movie i could be totally wrong but atm i just dont see it.

 

[third3ye]

I'm fine with the smaller scale of CW. It's very much a Cap-centric story that focuses on relationships between the key stakeholders, and seems to do justice to the Captain America part of the film's title. Let's face it - if they made it Avengers 2.5 with big scale battles, people would complain it's not a Cap film and has too much going on, and vice versa. Given the size of the MCU thus far, I think Marvel took the right approach here.

Also keep in mind we're trying to judge the scale of a movie from the first trailer alone. We know the heroes need to put aside their differences to stop Zemo towards the end, so who knows if there's some sort of grand battle to stop a McGuffin during the climax. Let's just hope Disney marketing doesn't pull a BvS and show them banding together against Zemo in a trailer 4 months before the film release facepalm Kinda hard to sell on the hero vs hero aspect when you already spoiled them joining forces, even if it's something we all expect.

 

[Pikezer1337]

I'm fine with the smaller scale of CW. It's very much a Cap-centric story that focuses on relationships between the key stakeholders, and seems to do justice to the Captain America part of the film's title. Let's face it - if they made it Avengers 2.5 with big scale battles, people would complain it's not a Cap film and has too much going on, and vice versa. Given the size of the MCU thus far, I think Marvel took the right approach here.

Also keep in mind we're trying to judge the scale of a movie from the first trailer alone. We know the heroes need to put aside their differences to stop Zemo towards the end, so who knows if there's some sort of grand battle to stop a McGuffin during the climax. Let's just hope Disney marketing doesn't pull a BvS and show them banding together against Zemo in a trailer 4 months before the film release facepalm Kinda hard to sell on the hero vs hero aspect when you already spoiled them joining forces, even if it's something we all expect.

You're talking about the first CW trailer vs the 3rd trailer for BVS. If the third trailer comes out for civil war and doesn't show them vs Zemo in it I'll come back to this post and apologize, however I'm willing to bet money on that they will or were going to until BVS had some backlash

 

[The Mad Professor]

While I think the main thrust will be Cap trying to defend Bucky, the Sokovia Accords will also play a decent role.

Most of this trailer breakdown is supposition and educated guesses, but they are quite well founded and reasonable guesses.

Here's a screen capture of the front of the Sokovia Accords:

Sorry for the potato quality, but they took a small section of the screen, rotated it to where it can be read properly, and expanded it to fill the screen.

It says:

SOKOVIA ACCORDS: Framework for the Registration and Deployment of Enhanced Individuals

Also note the United Nations logo, meaning that this is an international law coming into play. It's outside the purview of the United States, and is therefore more far reaching, meaning that you can't just escape it by fleeing to another country, unless that country is not a member of the United Nations.

An additional document (purportedly from the Sokovia Accords) can be found in the Marvel Phase II Box Set

The Accords are being put into place to establish supervision and control over The Avengers and other enhanced individuals to ostensibly make sure that their actions have consequences and that they can be held accountable if they mess up.

This is where the rift comes into play.

On the pro side, it's a good thing because a situation can be apprised and analyzed before a brawl begins to determine which person should intervene and whether or not the fight can be taken elsewhere to minimize damage and casualties. Plus, I would imagine it provides legal protection for any damages caused in the course of taking down a bad guy as well as providing a better framework for dealing with the superpowered bad guys,

On the other side, you are forcing enhanced individuals to register themselves with the United Nations and to only act if and when the UN gives consent to do so, basically turning them into glorified UN Peacekeepers. To people like Captain America (who parachuted alone behind enemy lines and stormed a HYDRA facility to rescue hundreds of POWs despite being specifically ordered to stand down), being tied down waiting for the higher ups to make a clear-cut decision when lives are on the line is not within his nature.

I imagine that the thing with Bucky is, in addition to being a direct point of conflict (Stark wants to bring in The Winter Soldier to answer for his crimes while Rogers wants to prevent his best friend from paying for crimes he was forced to commit against his will), a way to show a fundamental flaw with the Accords in that they are designed to be black and white, while the world is shades of gray.

 

[Fly4v]

The fundamental flaw with the accords, at least from Cap's stand point ... as I see it, should be that it ignores the US constitution and the sovereignty of the United States.

Cap is not just pro-America but 1940's pro-America. I doubt he is very happy with much of the 21st Century.

While he worked for SHIELD, he didn't like what they did and probably didn't care for the 'world council'. In TWS he stated the prime reason he was in SHIELD was because Peggy was one of the a founders. No Peggy, I doubt he would have stayed as long as he did.

Steve is a stand up guy and this is should be a great movie. But, I do find it odd when he confronts Bucky... "do you remember me" and the response is I remember you mom! Those are fighting words.

 

[kegas76]

The fundamental flaw with the accords, at least from Cap's stand point ... as I see it, should be that it ignores the US constitution and the sovereignty of the United States.

Yeah, there is no way a Republican congress would sign this treaty and give up rights to the UN. Taking his shield would in effect be taking away Cap's right to bear arms.

 

[nwjedidave]

So some of spidey's costume will be CGI ? Take it with a grain of salt. From yahoo:

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/s/spider-mans-costume-captain-america-041434151.html

"Captain America: Civil War co-director Anthony Russo chatted with a Brazilian entertainment website while attending Comic-Con Experience 2015 (CCXP) and he provided some details regarding the Spider-Man costume that Tom Holland (In the Heart of the Sea) will be wearing in the film.Keep in mind, Russo's responses were published in Portuguese and have been translated to English.
The site, Super Interessante, began by mentioning the rumors of multiple Spider-Man costumes in Captain America: Civil War and wondered what Russo could say on the matter. "Well, we researched a lot and do a lot of experiments for all the characters. We did the same with Spider-Man," Russo offered. "We knew it had to be someone young, it was very important because we wanted to give this essence to the character, it is something unique in the Marvel Universe. Tom Holland is an amazing Spider-Man, people will love it. It was a very experimental process, placing it with other actors, especially with Downey Jr., we were learning as we did and are very happy with the result. But we are still working on some things, like the uniform. He's not ready because so much will be produced with special effects."
Civil War is loosely-based on Mark Millar's comic book mini-series. The Russo brothers had to change things up quite a bit but wanted to capture the essence of Millar's work. One small element from that story arc is that Tony Stark provides Peter Parker with a red-and-gold Spider-Man costume. Will we see a version of it in the film? "The film will show a mix of what everyone is waiting for and a little twist," Russo said. "So yeah, that's what I can tell."

 

[nathanial91]

I am very interested to see how the Spidey's costume comes out and how he is going to be part of the story, compared to the original Civil War

 

[Laspector]

They better not be animating Spidey's eyes. I can't stand that crap in the cartoons.

 

[Father]

SOKOVIA ACCORDS: Framework for the Registration and Deployment of Enhanced Individuals

Also note the United Nations logo, meaning that this is an international law coming into play. It's outside the purview of the United States, and is therefore more far reaching, meaning that you can't just escape it by fleeing to another country, unless that country is not a member of the United Nations.

This is where the rift comes into play.

On the pro side, it's a good thing because a situation can be apprised and analyzed before a brawl begins to determine which person should intervene and whether or not the fight can be taken elsewhere to minimize damage and casualties. Plus, I would imagine it provides legal protection for any damages caused in the course of taking down a bad guy as well as providing a better framework for dealing with the superpowered bad guys,

To people like Captain America (who parachuted alone behind enemy lines and stormed a HYDRA facility to rescue hundreds of POWs despite being specifically ordered to stand down), being tied down waiting for the higher ups to make a clear-cut decision when lives are on the line is not within his nature

I guess Tony figures he's cleared himself of any guilt from his company's weapons being sold on the black market and used to kill civilians by suiting up and "privatizing world peace". So now he's onboard for any kind of nonsense like this. What a sellout he's become.

Why are Barton and Rhodes on the accords? Neither of them are enhanced. One has a bow and arrow and one has an Iron Man suit. Take those away and you have an operative and an Air Force Colonel. Nothing terribly enhanced about either of them beyond their physical prowess and commitment to saving lives. That's like saying a tank driver is an enhanced being.

Putting enhanced individuals under UN control is as much of a joke as the UN itself and if I were Cap or any of them I would find it insulting that it was even being proposed, let alone supported by the US, that I only operate under UN approval. Preventing large scale casualties and saving innocent lives has never been a strong point of the UN or bureaucracy in general. The only redeeming purpose to this is moving the battle away from collateral damage and civilian casualties. Of course... that sounds a lot easier on paper. It's certainly worked wonders for US forces in Iraq.

That's why this storyline and this movie are so much more appealing then BvS. So much more thought provoking than "How could Batman possible beat Superman?"

 

[Father]

Need a Photoshop of Cap holding his shield with the UN Logo on it and his chest.

 

[The Mad Professor]

Why are Barton and Rhodes on the accords? Neither of them are enhanced. One has a bow and arrow and one has an Iron Man suit. Take those away and you have an operative and an Air Force Colonel. Nothing terribly enhanced about either of them beyond their physical prowess and commitment to saving lives. That's like saying a tank driver is an enhanced being.

They put the entire Avengers team under UN control, which includes Barton and Rhodes.

 

[Father]

They put the entire Avengers team under UN control, which includes Barton and Rhodes.

I guess Barton didn't go into INACTIVE status at the end of AoU then?

 

[The Mad Professor]

I guess Barton didn't go into INACTIVE status at the end of AoU then?

Well, he did, but INACTIVE is not the same as RETIRED. Inactive means that he can return, but he's taking a leave of absence. Therefore, they want him to sign it in case he does come back (or he came back in the meantime).

 

[Father]

Well, he did, but INACTIVE is not the same as RETIRED. Inactive means that he can return, but he's taking a leave of absence. Therefore, they want him to sign it in case he does come back (or he came back in the meantime).

Is Thor on that list as an Avenger?
If so, how do they make someone from another world register to serve the UN?

 

[The Mad Professor]

Is Thor on that list as an Avenger?
If so, how do they make someone from another world register to serve the UN?

No, he's not, and neither is Bruce Banner:

I imagine the reason for this is that you cannot force a sovereign citizen of another world to sign a document such as this, especially since for all intents and purposes, he would have Diplomatic Immunity, given that he is the next in line to the Asgardian throne.

As for Banner, even if he did willingly and voluntarily sign it, any competent psychiatrist would rule that Banner is not responsible for the actions of the Hulk, as the Hulk is technically an alternate personality. Basically, Banner is not mentally fit to sign such papers and have them stick legally.

 

[Father]

No, he's not, and neither is Bruce Banner:

http://i.imgur.com/nGscJ0z.jpg

I imagine the reason for this is that you cannot force a sovereign citizen of another world to sign a document such as this, especially since for all intents and purposes, he would have Diplomatic Immunity, given that he is the next in line to the Asgardian throne.

As for Banner, even if he did willingly and voluntarily sign it, any competent psychiatrist would rule that Banner is not responsible for the actions of the Hulk, as the Hulk is technically an alternate personality. Basically, Banner is not mentally fit to sign such papers and have them stick legally.

So how is The Vision categorized? He's a sentient AI in a body constructed in Korea by a sentient AI... with the mind stone from another world in his forehead.

Also... I love that the Phase Two box set comes with what I'm guessing is a applicable Hispanic Scott Baio tattoo. Marvel is so awesome. Only way they could have topped it would be to include the doll Gary made of Tony.

 

[Krull]

Imagine the fun the UN is gonna have when the folks from Guardians of the Galaxy show up.....

 

[Father]

Imagine the fun the UN is gonna have when the folks from Guardians of the Galaxy show up.....

Ha.... I was thinking that too. First things first.... The US needs to collect back taxes from Peter Quill for the last 25 or so year.