An Observation on the Graflex

[Tan Djarka]

Something occurs to me... And this might be something interesting for someone with the resources to investigate: Conisdering the number of pieces made by Icons, Master Replicas, Larbel, Parks, et al, is it possible that there are more replica Graflexes in the world than there ever were REAL ones?

 

[H1rg0n]

HA! Never thought of that......good question.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Something occurs to me... And this might be something interesting for someone with the resources to investigate: Conisdering the number of pieces made by Icons, Master Replicas, Larbel, Parks, et al, is it possible that there are more replica Graflexes in the world than there ever were REAL ones?

Well, the thing with Parks and his pieces is that they are actual, functional flash bars. I think he may also be licensed to make the Graflex flashes.

 

[defstartrooper]

They're still replicas albeit functional ones

 

[Tuskin Scout]

My best guess is to say that there were thousands of these out there back in the day...the Speed Graphic camera (which the Graflex flash handle was used on) was in use the world over. In fact, when I was attending school in Rochester, New York in the late 80's to early 90's I came across a box full of Graflex flash handles...approx. two dozen or so...worth a small fortune today :lol

 

[Tan Djarka]

My best guess is to say that there were thousands of these out there back in the day...

Sure, but how many thousand? Ten? Fifty? One hundred? They may have been popular, but they weren't exactly a Kodak "Brownie" either. In fact, a little quick research turned up that for it's intended purpose, the Graflite was actually better functionally.

Now, there are known numbers for the Icons (I think Rebel Scum has a notation on the numbers in their archives), and all the MR pieces, and I'm sure someone could come up with an estimate on Larbel's numbers. Plus Parks sales are ongoing, so if the original number hasn't been surpassed, it may be eventually.

 

[Probe Droid]

Get your head out your arse, the Speed Graphic is the press camera for decades. The great American camera. One of the 20th-century's ten most important inventions.

 

[rmschneider104]

As cool as it would be to think that there are more replica Graflex flashes out there, I would say that it is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of authentic flashes. Although we are a vibrant community, we really are small in number.

 

[Tan Djarka]

Get your head out your arse, the Speed Graphic is the press camera for decades.

Was that really necessary?

I think you misunderstand me. The Brownie may have been little more than a cardboard box with a lens, but it was cheap. available, and put a camera into the hands of just about anyone who wanted to take a picture. It was a camera for the "everyman".

The Speed Graphic was geared toward professionals and high end enthusiasts, and they were most likely manufactured in far smaller quantities than the Brownie.

 

[Tuskin Scout]

I know its hard to detach from todays photo-mania with disposable cameras and the like but the truth of the matter is (for most people) photography was still very expensive back in the day. In addition, the Speed Graphic was just about it as far as choice of camera for professionals, you did not have the multitude of camera makers to choose from like you have today. So in conclusion to the intrigue...MR (or someone else) could produce their sabers for years to come and not surpass the production number of the original flash handle.

 

[nightrider]

I think the fact that in my relatively small town, I could go into a warehouse behind a used camera store and find two in nearly mint condition 60 or more years after the fact speaks a lot about the actual numbers of those things that were probably made. It is a good question though.

 

[Tuskin Scout]

Well said! They were wonderful cameras and took beautiful pictures As a photographer myself, the marriage between the flash handle and light saber is a dream. Hats off to the prop department for such a creative solution for what is now a movie prop icon

 

[Crimsonnaire]

Slightly OT, but I've read that the overall number of MPP's made may be only in the hundreds. Can that be true? How long were they in production?

If so, it's safe to say that Parks probably surpassed the originals by a substantial margin, not to mention HK.

 

[Tuskin Scout]

How much sense would that make? If you were a company producing a product that is used through out the world (a piece of photographic equipment) would you only make a few hundred units? I think not. IMO, it would be more like in the thousands. You have to keep in mind that things were simply tossed away when damaged or broken or worse yet...just not needed anymore. Really, it wasn't until we (the fans) came along and brought back the interest in these things, otherwise they would still be sitting in boxes out in the garage :lol

 

[laszlo]

MPP was mainly manufactured for the UK market - with the bulk going to the armed services and police departments. The Microflash went in to production in the late fifties at a time when that technology was already becoming outdated due to the advent of strobe flashes. I doubt many more than 1000 units were sold at all in the UK as it was probably an undesirably flash choice soon after it was made.

 

[Paul B]

I've lived in Rochester all my life... I've only seen a few authentic Graflex flash handles at local camera shops, fleas and/or garage sales... and they were usually 2 cells and really beat up. I have more replicas in my personal collection than all of the "real deals" I've seen around town! :lol

 

[Tuskin Scout]

I never said that I came across the flash handles at market...I went to RIT where their resources are ten times better than most name brand camera shops :lol We even had 8x10 cameras at are disposal...so yes, the flash handles were plentiful. But just for the sake of conversation, I did locate five Graflex handles (complete units) for my own collection...all by way of the local area. In the late 80's to early 90's there was very little discussion regarding the source for original prop material in reference to the light saber, the internet was still an infant and communication on the world scale barely a whisper. Today, you would be hard pressed to find a photographer or shop owner selling flash handles to be unaware of the connetion...almost everything is flipped on ebay so of course you are not going to walk in somewhere and find a flash handle sitting in the display case. Like most collectibles they are fading from the once infamous weekend shows. So yes, good luck finding flash handles anywhere (including Rochester!!). Just for giggles, browse old images of celebrities such as Monroe or the Beatles and you see a dozen photographers with Speed Graphic cameras. During the period I was attending RIT in the photojournalism program I watched hundreds of old news reels so trust me when I say that the flash handle was everywhere in news publication. IMO, you are greatly under estimating the production numbers for that time both here in the US and in the UK Bottom line is that those days are long gone and so are the days of an easy score :lol

 

[Tan Djarka]

Hmmm... The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to doubt the possibility. But it did make for some interesting conversation.

Unlike the Obi ANH, the Luke ANH from Icons supposedly met the full run of 10,000, plus all the varied editions from MR (including FX?), would put you at right about 25,000, right? Then add in Larbel, Parks, et al, and MAYBE you could double that.

For the original, that would be an average of 1000 pieces per year of production, which seems a bit low. Initially, 10,000 a year may have been likely, though that number would have diminished through it's run as demand waned. So a low number of 250,000 to a high of 500,000 is possible. Even in that case, the originals only outnumber the replicas by 10-to-1.

Given that they have reportedly been thrown out "by the box full", it is possible that there are now more replicas in existence than originals.

 

[Java]

You have to keep in mind that things were simply tossed away when damaged or broken or worse yet...just not needed anymore. Really, it wasn't until we (the fans) came along and brought back the interest in these things, otherwise they would still be sitting in boxes out in the garage

The throw away mentality is new to our generation. People didn't just toss stuff out, they had things repaired. You didn't just run out to Walmart and buy a new one.

Something always made me recoil in disbelief during the height of "Graflex Madness" was the label of "supply and demand" as an excuse for selling a $5 flash handle for $300.

From the numbers in this thread, and the fact that just about everybody here either has at least one, bought one, or sold one shows pretty strongly that these were not rare, nor hard to find.

 

[Tan Djarka]

Something always made me recoil in disbelief during the height of "Graflex Madness" was the label of "supply and demand" as an excuse for selling a $5 flash handle for $300.

Like paying $1500 for an old faucet knob just because it's the same kind that was used in some movie? A knob that would otherwise be virtually worthless, even if it AND it's mate were still attached to a functioning faucet.