Amazon's Lord of the Rings (tv series)

ScourgiousJinx

Sr Member
Fight as you might it is still possible to get run over by the studio. I think it’s hard to lay blame on any single person for a film’s success or failure in this day and age.
If you sacrifice your vision so that a film gets made then that's what kind of director/writer/producer you are. Look at at how many directors have left SW projects over creative differences. Those that left realized that they couldn't work within that system which is far better than having their name attached to something they really couldn't stand behind.
 

Eruonen

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
If you sacrifice your vision so that a film gets made then that's what kind of director/writer/producer you are. Look at at how many directors have left SW projects over creative differences. Those that left realized that they couldn't work within that system which is far better than having your name attached to something you really can't stand behind.
You’re right. But some one will direct it eventually, and they’ll be a sock puppet for the studio.
 

Joek3rr

Master Member
He did when he made LOTR for sure.
I assumed it was hubris that caused the Hobbit to turn into a bloated CGI crapfest.
Was it studio meddling?
Things went sideways pretty quickly in production. There was disagreements with New Line, about money from merchandising. Guillermo dropped out, forcing Peter to take over. Warner Bros as I recall forced a third film. Peta was breathing down their necks about how the horses were being cared for. (I suspect that led to that weird CGI horse for Legolas)

Yes Peter got a little enamored with all the improvements in CGI. And became easier to shoot everyone separately and combine them digitally, then to monkey around with the forced perspective stuff. But they had a lot of practical stuff prepared at the start. I recall hearing they had made a full Azog suit. And pretty much all of the orcs that fight in the old ruins of Dale are practical suits.
 

Eruonen

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Things went sideways pretty quickly in production. There was disagreements with New Line, about money from merchandising. Guillermo dropped out, forcing Peter to take over. Warner Bros as I recall forced a third film. Peta was breathing down their necks about how the horses were being cared for. (I suspect that led to that weird CGI horse for Legolas)

Yes Peter got a little enamored with all the improvements in CGI. And became easier to shoot everyone separately and combine them digitally, then to monkey around with the forced perspective stuff. But they had a lot of practical stuff prepared at the start. I recall hearing they had made a full Azog suit. And pretty much all of the orcs that fight in the old ruins of Dale are practical suits.
The original Azog was practical version of what became Bolg apparently, but with the expansions and the change to keep Azog alive, they ended doing 100% CG for both because they were already well into production and changes were still happening. Crazy production to say the least
 

joberg

Master Member
I think that people, in general, have a tendency to forget that Tolkien books are part of History. They're part of a collective, just as StarWars is and other known books (the list is too long). They were written in the '50s...not long ago but long enough to be part of the past. Now, it seems that the zeitgeist is calling to remove, suppress, change drastically or simply invent characters and events in the hope that they'll change History itself:rolleyes: Wrong philosophy and strategy! Changing things just because you can is never a good reason to do so...:oops:
The collective (us, readers, fans, etc) knows these books by heart and it's normal that such a reaction is happening everywhere!
 

joberg

Master Member
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Mottrex

Sr Member
It's funny that no one ever accepts blame or responsibility for projects with their name attached when they fail or are sub par but are all about it when they succeed. Part of being a good director/producer/writer is working within the system, advocating for yourself and your vision to still produce good content.
Not sure thats how it works or Ever has...many a great Writer Director have been badly burned by the Studio system...
Some have submitted their finished work only to have Studio Hacks/ Moneymen swoop in and re cut edit an entire movie.
Writers fair even less well... you only have to read a novel then watch what passes by name only as the same Story..
Some obviously can have some level of control but Its basically dependant on where the money comes from and the faith they have in you..
 

ScourgiousJinx

Sr Member
Not sure thats how it works or Ever has...many a great Writer Director have been badly burned by the Studio system...
Some have submitted their finished work only to have Studio Hacks/ Moneymen swoop in and re cut edit an entire movie.
Writers fair even less well... you only have to read a novel then watch what passes by name only as the same Story..
Some obviously can have some level of control but Its basically dependant on where the money comes from and the faith they have in you..
So if the system has always been basically impossible to manage then how does one account for the slew of excellent films and shows in the past? It's certainly not been the studios with the original creative vision for the most part. It's been talented writers and directors who have stood up for their vision and found a way to get their film made the way they wanted. Until story, art, originality and expression are priorities above all else for more film fans, writers, directors, producers and studios we're going to continue get what we've been getting.
 
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Mottrex

Sr Member
So if the system has always been basically impossible to manage then how does one account for the slew of excellent films and shows in the past? It's certainly not been the studios with the original creative vision for the most part. It's been talented writers and directors who have stood up for their vision and found a way to get their film made the way they wanted. Until story, art, originality and expression are priorities above all else for more film fans, writers, directors, producers and studios we're going to continue get what we've been getting.
I didn't say it was Every Movie/TV did I....
And if your a big player you get to see your vision to fruition. If your Johnny New Pants you get stomped all over Fact.... You might have the most unique Story in All the land but if Big Boy Barry and the Board don't like it... They Will ask/make alterations...

You only have to look at "The House of Mouse" to see how quickly they remove a writing team and Director if they don't play ball..
 

Eruonen

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I didn't say it was Every Movie/TV did I....
And if your a big player you get to see your vision to fruition. If your Johnny New Pants you get stomped all over Fact.... You might have the most unique Story in All the land but if Big Boy Barry and the Board don't like it... They Will ask/make alterations...

You only have to look at "The House of Mouse" to see how quickly they remove a writing team and Director if they don't play ball..
I mean but look at people like Ridley Scott. Studios have recut his movies without his permission for decades. It’s not been until recently that he’s allowed to have his own final cuts.
 

Mottrex

Sr Member
I mean but look at people like Ridley Scott. Studios have recut his movies without his permission for decades. It’s not been until recently that he’s allowed to have his own final cuts.
Exactly my point..
Ridley has had as many if not more misses than hits..even The Last Duel wasn't a commercial success and every loss depletes ones power..
 

ScourgiousJinx

Sr Member
I didn't say it was Every Movie/TV did I....
And if your a big player you get to see your vision to fruition. If your Johnny New Pants you get stomped all over Fact.... You might have the most unique Story in All the land but if Big Boy Barry and the Board don't like it... They Will ask/make alterations...

You only have to look at "The House of Mouse" to see how quickly they remove a writing team and Director if they don't play ball..
I understand what you're saying, really. It still comes down to money over content no matter what way you look at it. It's still a choice to have your movie made with a studio that will destroy your vision to get a paycheck. There are always alternatives. Quite a few great directors/writers have made amazing films very early on in their careers and didn't sacrifice their vision.

If more said no to the status quo it would change.
 

Mottrex

Sr Member
I understand what you're saying, really. It still comes down to money over content no matter what way you look at it. It's still a choice to have your movie made with a studio that will destroy your vision to get a paycheck. There are always alternatives. Quite a few great directors/writers have made amazing films very early on in their careers and didn't sacrifice their vision.

If more said no to the status quo it would change.
I agree or like those that can bypass and create their own Studios.. Distribution is another matter though..
 

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