Am I REALLY the only one disappointed with TFA?

...This bullsheet line JJ is spewing, "Well, at the time I thought Chewie should focus on Finn instead of Leia.", and, "Well, actually, Leia and Rey DO know each other--through the Force, you see. So it made total sense that they would find each other to embrace and mourn Han's death...umm, even though they never *really* had met one another.".

Jyeah, okay, JJ...whatever you say.

The Wook
I can't help but wonder if there actually is some form of previous relationship between Leia and Rey that will be revealed in Episode VIII or IX, and this is the best rubbish J.J. could come up with while trying to explain that scene without giving anything away.
 
I don't get it... what do people think JJ's intentions WERE with that scene then?

Why is it BS?

They don't agree with it, fine, but why do people think he's BS-ing the reason behind how it went?

"Look, Lawrence... I hate Chewie... you hate Chewie... neither of us want the awesome Carrie Fisher to have to touch that gross costume a second time."

"I dunno JJ... Rey and Leia, the only two women in Han's life should meet - since, you know, it's her kids fault she was in mortal danger. But the fans will want to see the hug between that damn Wookbacca thing and Carrie. It will ruin the moment."

"Screw em. I hate Chewie... I'm glad he never got a medal. He's not hugging Leia and I have just a way to awkwardly shoot the scene that no one will ever notice."

They mis-shot it and screwed up. And he owned up to it.

I've been working on a flick for 3 years, there are 200+ people on it... I've seen it 100 + times in various versions... dozens of people have read the script... There's 56 days to go and I found an error 2 days ago.

Too late now. The scene should have been staged completely differently and no one, not the directors, creators, writers, animators, layout guys... no one noticed til last week. And I found it by mistake... and can't be changed at this point.

It's frustrating cuz there are so many people putting so many hours into a flick, and when it hits the theaters and someone points out a mistake it's "Oh my god you hacks!" from the fans and there's no explanation that will appease them.
 
...They mis-shot it and screwed up. And he owned up to it...
I think it's his explanation for the mistake, not the mistake itself, that people are questioning simply because it doesn't make much sense from a storytelling perspective. Leia consoles a young woman that she (allegedly) hardly knows, but ignores a character that has been a good friend and partner to her former lover (and maybe husband) for decades? In the overall context of the story that we're aware of, I don't quite buy it. And I fully acknowledge that mistakes happen, but J.J. should simply have said, "Yeah, we missed an opportunity there. Sorry," and left it at that.

I'm hoping story issues like this, even though it's a relatively minor issue, will make some sense once we've seen Episodes VIII and IX and "everything" has been explained.
 
I think story wise it makes complete sense that she would hug Rey... Where the problem was is that Chewie wasn't supposed to be in the way.

They wanted that moment... so they decided Chewie would rush Fin out of the Falcon, to a medic (his back WAS ripped open). Then Leia would walk out while Chewie ran to get Fin attention... he wouldn't be ignored, because Leia would never have seen it. It's also why Leia never ran out to see the injured man who helped save all of their lives with the craziest plan imaginable...

And then Rey and Leia could have their moment mourning the guy they both shared huge moments of their life with.

Then they buggered it all up in shooting.

I hate how the scene played out... but I can see what they were going with.

He should have said "missed opportunity, sorry" but the internet doesn't work that way, and would never have let him leave it at that.
 
It's just catching Abrams copying SW again awkwardly.... Leia comforting Luke for the loss of his new mentor friend Obi-wan and also her only hope so they share that loss somewhat. Chewie? Wasn't on his mind. Copying an emotional beat from SW was.
 
I can't help but wonder if there actually is some form of previous relationship between Leia and Rey that will be revealed in Episode VIII or IX, and this is the best rubbish J.J. could come up with while trying to explain that scene without giving anything away.

Time will tell, Zombie. But with 2-4 years to find out, they shouldn't be showing us stuff now that on its face is so inexplicable--especially to the exclusion of other stuff (a Chewie-Leia moment) which should've been shown to us.

He should have said "missed opportunity, sorry" but the internet doesn't work that way, and would never have let him leave it at that.

It was an egregious error in the film. So people should be griping about it, as they have been. So whether JJ gave his cockamame excuse or copped a simple mea culpa like you suggested, the internet is gonna continue to gripe about it whenever this film's flaws are discussed. The film has myriad flaws, but this is one of its most baffling and depressing--that they thought it was more important for Leia to hug a complete stranger after Han's death, than Han's best friend of 50 years. A 5-year old child on set could've said, "Why isn't the Princess hugging Chewie??".

The Wook
 
Now don't get me wrong... I think it should have happened (Leia hugging Chewie...)

BUT...

An important moment to fans is not the same as an important moment to story... and while he's an OT icon, it wasn't Chewie's movie. Rey was the protagonist so the focus is on how the events affect her.
 
Now don't get me wrong... I think it should have happened (Leia hugging Chewie...)

BUT...

An important moment to fans is not the same as an important moment to story... and while he's an OT icon, it wasn't Chewie's movie. Rey was the protagonist so the focus is on how the events affect her.

Fine, have the protagonist get her hug. After the wookiee!

The Wook
 
I've said it before, JJ is a hack and a sloppy filmmaker. It seems that every movie he makes he has to apologize for some mistake, or explain something that didn't make sense in the film. I'm amazed TFA was as good as it is.

But here his explanation is pretty much what I expected. A Leia/Chewie dis doesn't make sense, they did hug when they met earlier in the film. The only real problem with the scene is Chewie being visible as Leia approaches Rey, even though he clearly is following Finn. The "Force" thing between Leia and Rey also makes sense, as some have even guessed. When Leia reacted to Han's death, I wondered was she feeling a connection to Han or Rey's reaction?
 
...He should have said "missed opportunity, sorry" but the internet doesn't work that way, and would never have let him leave it at that.
Well, hell, he explained it and we/they didn't leave it at that. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :lol

...An important moment to fans is not the same as an important moment to story... and while he's an OT icon, it wasn't Chewie's movie. Rey was the protagonist so the focus is on how the events affect her.
I don't disagree, but the focus is on Rey for at least half of the movie. They couldn't give established and beloved characters like Leia and Chewbacca one little moment to share their grief on screen to appease those of us who have supported the franchise for nearly 40 years?

By the way, I sincerely appreciate and respect your "insider" perspective on these issues. It's interesting to me to hear from people who actually make movies and explain why they do what they do on any given project...well, except for J.J.. ;)
 
I've said it before, JJ is a hack and a sloppy filmmaker. It seems that every movie he makes he has to apologize for some mistake, or explain something that didn't make sense in the film. I'm amazed TFA was as good as it is.

A hack. A hilarious blanket statement.

He gets these gigs and is respected in the business because he's a phenomenal COMMERCIAL director. He loves popcorn flicks and that's what he's making.

Hacks don't pull off a movie like this. This movie would KILL most people. The crazy amount of pressure, money, people under him. You think he's just sitting on a chair in a green screen room with a crew of 15?

Hack's don't get 90% approval.

Hack's don't pull off a schedule like this.

He must have a thick skin to put up with Star Wars and Star Trek fans... cuz I would be going all Jon Favreau in "Chef"... (which is probably a nod to people who attack his work)

NSFW


Damn I love that flick. heh.
 
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By the way, I sincerely appreciate and respect your "insider" perspective on these issues. It's interesting to me to hear from people who actually make movies and explain why they do what they do on any given project...well, except for J.J.. ;)

Heh, no problem... I'm one of those guys who works in the industry and still enjoys movies... believe me... it's a rare thing.

But that's what I like about JJ... he really loves making movies. It's not just a paycheque for him.
 
Abrams certainly finds himself involved in a lot of materials that are directly or indirectly derivative of other's creations. hmmmmm.
 
I think it's fair to criticize JJ for his flaws, and the man does have them as a storyteller on both the small and big screens.

JJ's biggest flaws, as I see them, are:

1. He looooooves crafting a mystery, or at least raising questions in the audience's mind. The thing is, sometimes I think these questions are unnecessary to the story you're trying to tell, and sometimes I think he doesn't actually know the answer to the mystery. It's a great way to build excitement, but I think he sometimes leans on that trope a bit too heavily (e.g. "Is Cumberbatch Khan?" "Is the island just purgatory?"), and can often fail to deliver with the big reveal. In this case, though, I suspect that they've already mapped out Rey's journey, her backstory (which is the mystery the audience currently faces), and know how they're going to get from A-to-B-to-C with it. In a way, it's less a true "mystery" and more just "information that hasn't yet been revealed to the audience."

Mostly, I believe this to be the case because TFA -- and Star Wars in general -- is no longer the work of a single auteur, subject to such auteur's whims. Lucas threw in the "No. There is another..." line in ESB without really knowing who that other is. He made Leia Luke's sister so that Luke would have a reason to go nuts when Vader threatens to turn her in ROTJ (without regard for the previous romantic tension he'd laid out in ANH and ESB). He made it up as he went along, basically, and changed his mind at times, too. That's not likely to happen with the new Star Wars material. First, you have the Story Group riding herd on what's being told, and second, with a mix of directors, you don't have the entire story subject to a single director's whims. The stories are being developed collaboratively. That means that for the next person to step in and take over, they need to know the direction they're supposed to go. How they get there may be up to them, but the direction is pre-determined.

2. JJ has blindspots in storytelling and/or allows other people involved to let their blind spots go unchallenged. As a director, he sometimes seems to (erroneously) assume that the info is all there for the audience to see,or simply thinks that some info isn't important when it is. Case in point, the whole issue with the difference between the Resistance and the Republic, and the 30 years of backstory. There may be some 400-page version of the TFA screenplay that includes a mass of scenes and exposition that were cut or never filmed at all, which lays this stuff out. But the film, as shown, is missing a LOT of backstory, and it leaves folks confused. This is doubly problematic when you have the "competing narrative" of the EU, which was allowed to exist for 20 of those 30 years, and then was summarily fired out an airlock into "Legends" continuity. With this Chewie thing, JJ probably just...missed it. It was a mistake. He didn't read how the scene would play to certain audience members. It just...never occurred to him. Now that he's been asked about it, he recognizes the mistake, and has a reason for why it was shot that way, but...yeah. It's a mistake. Due to blind spots.

3. JJ has a short attention span. Rather than craft a long, overarching narrative, I think he's a lot closer to, say, a Spielberg who wants to just tell a story and move on. Spielberg isn't making Minority Report 2, or War of the Worlds: Aftermath or whatever. Aside from the Indiana Jones films, and maybe a production credit on Jaws 2, Spielberg has largely just done standalone films. JJ, to me, is far more like that. I think it's hurt him in his TV endeavors because he just...you know, gets bored and wants to move on. I don't think he's as good as young Spielberg is (because almost nobody is), but I do think he's on par with the Spielberg of the last, oh, 10-15 years.


As for JJ's derivative approach, I mean, folks, we're talking about the Star Wars franchise. The whole thing is derivative. Lucas literally lifts shot compositions and lines of dialogue from several other films in ANH alone. Stylistically, he's just telling a Buster Crabbe Flash Gordon serial, mixed with western elements, and a few Kurosawa and jitai geki references thrown in. Is JJ derivative in his style? Absolutely! But...so what?
 
I loved TFA and I think JJ did a great job. I think he made some editorial and pacing choices that I would ding, but in general he deserves a lot of credit for pulling this off as well as he did. Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of his per se, I like some of his stuff like Trek '09 but I am kind of meh in Cloverfield and Super 8. So my love fir this film is not predicated on the director.
 
I'm not actually that big on JJ's movies... Super 8 didn't do anything for me, and while I do like Trek 09 (fun film) Trek as a whole has never really done anything for me.

Loved MI-3 though. Great villain.

I knew JJ as a writer before anything else. I had this old Premier magazine that had an article about a young screenwriter who created a show called "Felicity" that apparently had a pilot script so strong every studio was trying to get it. I made a note to check it out, and then kind of forgot about it when it looked like just another "Dawson's Creek" (which it wasn't).

A couple of years later when I was driving across country with a friend, we found the box set at a used DVD place and I picked it up to watch when I got back. Check out this guy. We ended up just throwing it on a laptop while we drove across the prairies (nothing else to look at) and were both blown away.

This JJ guy seemed to be credited with story or had written on almost every episode (I always like when a creator is heavily involved in their show), and the stand out was the characters and dialogue. He had a great knack for writing strong, characters (female characters!), and his dialogue was sharp and funny without being cheesy.

Since then I've followed a lot of what he does, and even on the movies or TV I'm "meh" about, the characters are always stand outs.

It's also great to see him re use his friends and actors from previous shows and movies. I love playing "Spot Greg Grunberg" (his childhood friend). He's kind of Joss Whedon that way... making movies should be fun... work with your friends!

I need one of my friends to get a gig where they can make me an X-wing pilot.
 
I loved TFA and I think JJ did a great job. I think he made some editorial and pacing choices that I would ding, but in general he deserves a lot of credit for pulling this off as well as he did. Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of his per se, I like some of his stuff like Trek '09 but I am kind of meh in Cloverfield and Super 8. So my love fir this film is not predicated on the director.

You put the words right into my mouth! The ability to reboot the ST Franchise and then take on the biggest Sci-Fi franchise ever is no small task. I don't think I could nor even want to do it. You're never going to hit every target. We got an AMAZING movie and I Thank the Maker for it... :)
 
2. JJ has blindspots in storytelling and/or allows other people involved to let their blind spots go unchallenged. As a director, he sometimes seems to (erroneously) assume that the info is all there for the audience to see,or simply thinks that some info isn't important when it is. Case in point, the whole issue with the difference between the Resistance and the Republic, and the 30 years of backstory. There may be some 400-page version of the TFA screenplay that includes a mass of scenes and exposition that were cut or never filmed at all, which lays this stuff out. But the film, as shown, is missing a LOT of backstory, and it leaves folks confused. This is doubly problematic when you have the "competing narrative" of the EU, which was allowed to exist for 20 of those 30 years, and then was summarily fired out an airlock into "Legends" continuity. With this Chewie thing, JJ probably just...missed it. It was a mistake. He didn't read how the scene would play to certain audience members. It just...never occurred to him. Now that he's been asked about it, he recognizes the mistake, and has a reason for why it was shot that way, but...yeah. It's a mistake. Due to blind spots.


I think the lack of exposition in TFA can be attributed more to Kasdan than Abrams. One of the big magazine interviews released in conjunction with the film recounted a conversation (and alluded to an ongoing theme) between the two in which Kasdan was encouraging JJ to worry less about the details and backstory and let the audience figure it out.

I'll see if I can dig up that interview.

As for the Chewie/Leia thing - major oversight. No argument there.
 
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