Well, he's 1 - 2, as far as Star Wars movies go. I try to forget about the 2 turds he laid, and remember the 1 masterpiece he penned for us.
The Wook
Am I REALLY the only one disappointed with TFA?
- Thread starter sithman66
- Start date
Well, he's 1 - 2, as far as Star Wars movies go. I try to forget about the 2 turds he laid, and remember the 1 masterpiece he penned for us.
The Wook
So that is the surly teen you were talking about ...
If we look at ANH, how much exposition did we get there? The opening crawl, then a bit of exposition about the imperial senate being disbanded, a few sentences about the jedi order and how Lukes father was murdered by Darth Vader, but that´s it. I´d say not more than one page of dialogue in the whole script? Anyone care to correct me?
What they did with TFA, and I suppose it´s been done intentionally, keep us on the short leash wanting much more ad being ready and hungry for the next installment. Except for the Wook, maybe. TFA is faster paced than ANH, TFA builds upon an already established universe, granted with holes for the audience to fill in via books etc. but nonetheless already very well established elements.
Where in TFA would have you placed more exposition than what we got?
It is really sad that Paul/JetBeetle left us so soon. He could have given a great lecture on exposition.
Don't misunderstand - I agree with you. The Star Wars movies - well, the good ones, anyway IMO - have always been fairly light on exposition. My comment was aimed at attaching the responsibility to the appropriate person.
Solo4114
Master Member
It's a valid theory, but it sort of calls into question an underlying issue: what story are you really trying to tell, and what information is most essential to telling that story?
Is the story "What's going on in the galaxy?" or is it "What's happening to these specific characters?" Or is it "Here's the story of how the Force returned at a time when the galaxy most needed it"?
The question of what story you're really trying to tell is absolutely key because, depending on what that story is, you focus on different things.
That, however, is a separate issue as to whether the story that was told was the story you wanted to see, and I think that's where much of the criticism comes from. Many people went into this wanting to know the story of "And then what happened?" after ROTJ. But they wanted the whole story, not just "We pick up 30 years later as a bunch of stuff is happening and go from there." When the story didn't cover enough of that, I think some people were really disappointed. Especially considering the state in which the movie opens, and where that leaves the OT heroes.
I had similar complaints about the PT for years. I was really annoyed that Lucas didn't bother telling (to my view) how the Republic fell, what happened during the Clone Wars, and how the Empire rose. Instead, he focused mostly on Anakin's personal journey. On the whole, looking back with some distance, I think that Lucas told the story he seems to have wanted to tell....eh...decently. The problem is that the story he wanted to tell was one I found ultimately uninteresting. I didn't really care about how Anakin's abandonment issues led him to be easily manipulated into turning into a villain. I especially didn't care when that story came at the expense of the larger story about the galaxy and the fall of the Republic. I wanted a story that showed Anakin's fall as mirroring the Republic's fall, and his transformation into Vader mirroring the rise of the Empire. Lucas' story, I could agree, flowed ok from A-to-B-to-C...I just didn't find it interesting or engaging.
I can see where some folks might look at TFA and find that it doesn't tell a story they really want to see, particularly when it doesn't lay the groundwork for "Wait, but what happened in between there and here?" Instead, because it jumps right into the middle of the action and (so far) only very briefly reveals what happened immediately after ROTJ to the present, it just ends up looking like "Uh...we couldn't figure out a way to build drama if ROTJ's ending was just left as a total victory, so....everyone's life sucks now." That doesn't mean everyone's life always sucked immediately after ROTJ. In fact, things probably only slowly eroded once the war really ended. But we don't get to see that....because that's not the story they're telling.
Which brings me back to Kasdan. From Kasdan's perspective, I can see where a lot of that backstory stuff really just isn't relevant to the story he's telling, or at least doesn't warrant the kind of exploration of backstory many old school fans might want to see, mostly because there just ain't enough time for it. Personally, I think some of the action sequences could've been trimmed (e.g. rathtars) to make space for some more exposition, but aside from that, I expect things will be revealed gradually in the subsequent films. We'll see, though.
Fair enough, but mine is beat to hell, says "Graflex", has 2 red buttons and screws in the grips... Which is DEFINITELY not Rey's (from a certain point of view)
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ha, yeah. I really shouldn't talk like that... she's a ridiculously good kid and I'm CRAZY lucky to have a kid who's more into academics and, unlike her parents, never wants to drink or get tattoos or do any of the weird crazy crap she see's us doing.
But yeah, she does tend to walk by us a lot, roll her eyes, and call us nerds.
Jaitea
Master Member
But thats the way Star Wars is,...we didn't know what happened between the end of ANH to ESB,.....talk of running into bounty hunters etc,.....to explain what happened in 30 years wouldnt have been in the style of how the rest of the films connected,....I'm totally fine with the way it was
J
J
TFA's lack of exposition / backstory:
We are so, so quick to forget where the filmmakers were sitting a year or two ago. (And this applies to SO, SO MANY things about TFA.) It seemed like Lucas's PT had absolutely exhausted the public's patience for sitting through backstory/exposition.
I'm not saying Lucas did everything that he should have in this area. But with the stuff he did, I'm saying he used up way too much screen-time & attention span doing it.
TFA was the anti-prequel. Part & parcel to that was keeping it very light & fast on exposition. Maybe it's too light & fast in hindsight . . . but there's that pesky H-word again.
Jaitea
Master Member
One of the main things that made the Original film different to any movie and is still praised to this day was how it just dropped you there in that universe,.....no explanation to who is good, who is bad,....theres no one to guide us really until it settles & we meet Luke & Ben.
J
J
Hey Daddy, y'all keep sayin' that they needed to rip off ANH to rebooquel the franchise, and that the next episodes, and spinoff films, will be chockablock full of creativity, with new stories, new worlds, and new ship designs, et cetara. And they will not be mere remakes of the rest of George's OT. So, I'll be going in to see them, opening night, spoiler-free and optimistic, that they're gonna give something new in all the right ways, as well as old in all the right ways. Cautiously optimistic, but optimistic, nonetheless.
The Wook
Darth Lars
Master Member
I don't think that the average movie-goer had any problem with a lack of back-story. It might be mostly the hardcore Star Wars fans that are curious about what happened the thirty-so years in-between the movies.
There were mostly two questions that I have seen over and over again in threads about the movie on different forums:
- "Was that Coruscant?", and
- "What is the relation between the Resistance and the Republic?"
And yes, the lack of answer to those questions in the movie is a flaw, because they should have been answered in the movie.
Luckily, they could be fixed in a fan-edit with the help of a better opening crawl and perhaps some inserted dialogue.
There were mostly two questions that I have seen over and over again in threads about the movie on different forums:
- "Was that Coruscant?", and
- "What is the relation between the Resistance and the Republic?"
And yes, the lack of answer to those questions in the movie is a flaw, because they should have been answered in the movie.
Luckily, they could be fixed in a fan-edit with the help of a better opening crawl and perhaps some inserted dialogue.
Jaitea
Master Member
I don't think its a flaw,....if you see a city in a film do you automatically think its New York,.....there are cities all over our world,.....theres more than one desert on our planet ......more than one ice cap..... more than one forest
J
Sakura1618
Active Member
I think like Star Trek: Into Darkness it was trying too hard to be a remake of a previous entry in the franchise. Not that I really hold that against either film.
As if ANH didn't leave any questions lingering in the audience's minds? Or ESB?
If TFA's unanswered questions qualify as flaws then the bar is being set ridiculously high for TFA.
I give JJA props for admitting he made any mistakes in his movies.
GL didn't admit those kinds of mistakes. Doesn't mean he didn't make any.
If TFA's unanswered questions qualify as flaws then the bar is being set ridiculously high for TFA.
I give JJA props for admitting he made any mistakes in his movies.
GL didn't admit those kinds of mistakes. Doesn't mean he didn't make any.
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... SO wanting to totally geek out and probably PLAY with star wars toys and stuff, but held in check by that damn puberty stuff that forces her to set herself apart from her parents ;-)
But maybe now the lightsaber is calling out to her ...
Hey how about a hidden speaker and mp3 system in.front of that lightsaber display triggered by a motion sensor, playing the mix that Rey hears during her vision?
Just to mess a little with a surly teens head. I know thats like playing with a grenade without the security pin.
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...and if people were paying attention, they mention the name of the planet/system in the movie...
Solo4114
Master Member
Well, to be fair, Lucas' original approach to the OT was heavily based on Flash Gordon, which featured single-biome planets (well, planet fragments, anyway). So, it's not unfair to look at a planet in Star Wars and assume it's yet another of the single-biome planets we've already seen (e.g. before you knew Jakku was Jakku, you'd be fair in thinking it's Tatooine).
Jaitea
Master Member
Yeah I suppose so.....but in a galaxy like Star Wars showing another City planet is hardly a flaw in the film?
I can't really think of anything that will not confuse us from now on,.....we've seen quite a lot of them
Water
Forest
Tropics
Lava
Desert
Mars like Desert
Gas
City
Artificial
Snow
Yellow Venus (sink planet)
...& quick glimpses of weird Avatar type CG worlds in RotS
J
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