Not with anything this new.
Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)
- Thread starter Anakin Starkiller
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Not for non-organic (living) materials like metals, rocks, etc... Especially something so recent (less than 50 years)
I believe rock testing tells roughly when the rock was formed, which in geologic time frames can be millions of years - and always with a certain margin of error. This washer is so recent that the margin of error is bigger than the 50 years that have (potentially) elapsed.
For metals, they rely on how much oxidation and pitting has occurred based on the environment the item has been sitting in. Some environments are more corrosive than others, and thus a forger could accelerate the aging process by putting the piece in with chemicals that would cause the metal to look as if it was older than it actually was.
You can get copper and brass to take on a quick patina with chemicals, or as simply as in a box with hard boiled eggs.
Laser ablation can tell what the chemical composition is, but that only helps if manufacturers have stopped or changed the way they make whatever metal you are testing during certain known time periods.
I believe rock testing tells roughly when the rock was formed, which in geologic time frames can be millions of years - and always with a certain margin of error. This washer is so recent that the margin of error is bigger than the 50 years that have (potentially) elapsed.
For metals, they rely on how much oxidation and pitting has occurred based on the environment the item has been sitting in. Some environments are more corrosive than others, and thus a forger could accelerate the aging process by putting the piece in with chemicals that would cause the metal to look as if it was older than it actually was.
You can get copper and brass to take on a quick patina with chemicals, or as simply as in a box with hard boiled eggs.
Laser ablation can tell what the chemical composition is, but that only helps if manufacturers have stopped or changed the way they make whatever metal you are testing during certain known time periods.
USS Endeav
Sr Member
I suspect that any test to determine age will not be 100% and would be invasive, meaning a sample removed for analysis. It is highly unlikely the consigner would agree to any test which which confirms what many of us are thinking. I emailed with ASU and was told that testing the metal would not narrow the date because the manufacturing and processing of the metal is similar enough today as it was in the 1960's. Perhaps if the prop used metal known to have certain impurities (ie; the pipe used was of a specific alloy) but the current prop used a different metal all together relying on the paint to prevent anyone from seeing the difference. That would be a smoking gun.
Trekfan
Well-Known Member
Wow. That is a pretty good fake.
feek61
Sr Member
Yes indeed it is! FWIW, HA told me that their phaser was not a RS kit because it was not polyester resin. Not sure if they actually tested their P2 but that would be good information to release if they had. It has been said many times before but the baffling thing about HA is how they disclose no information, threaten lawsuits and pressure you if you disagree with their expert and ignore any and all evidence that points to it being a forgery. They just want everyone to believe this fantastic story with no evidence while dismissing troubling issues with this phaser. Very strange behavior and would give me great pause to believe anything they say, much less consider purchasing anything from them. In my correspondence with them, when the evidence pointed to it most likely a forgery, they simply stopped communicating with me which pretty much shows their motivation$.
Shanko's shells were undersized. I have one. And Long's p1 (kit) was notorious for being too long and the wrong proportions. (Oh, do I remember those battles...) But he did create the "mystery phaser." Just stating facts. (Gotta go pop some corn now...
Yeah the JLong P1 is kinda funky in its shape and length. I love my hero phaser pistol, but the slight inaccuracies in the shells (JLong P1/S & B P2) do nag at me from time to time. If only Rob’s shells had existed when I built mine. Ah, well!
At least I can say that I achieved the dream, and built accurate, working hero replicas of the phaser, communicator (DStines Beta hero, but I still have a DStines Alpha hero kit waiting to be built), and tricorder (from the awesome TrekMe/Jayeff run). When I first got into the hobby, that goal seemed like a pipe dream.
I own the AA/DST versions of the props, and built up the three HMS/Rodd.com kits with electronic lights/sound (and some accuracy mods), but my accurate heroes (Working phaser mechanisms! Communicator stopwatch! Removable tricorder data disc/ejector!) are my favorites.
You really appreciate the thought and craft which went into the original props (which were built knowing they’d only be seen on low-res, CRT TVs of the 60s) when you build accurate replicas for yourself.
To clarify here, do we know for sure that HA has actually threatened anyone with a lawsuit? Or was it just trolls and people acting on their own initiative? I don’t recall HeroComm explicitly connecting their own emails to HA with the lawsuit threat which got them to back down.
…and at least he tried to replicate the TMOST phaser, which is one of the three “lost” heroes, instead of, y’know, the Jein. (slaps forehead)
QuasiOdo
Well-Known Member
Built a Jlong kit and assembled and painted MANY props myself. It's the classic stuff that is my focus of fascination though for reasons you cited. It's modern archeology. And in that field, and in art, forgeries (not admitted replicas) exist for one reason: To be exposed as such. So I guess we'll see!
The TOS phaser really is a perfect design. The original pilot’s laser was a wee bit too 1950s raygun in its design, and Jefferies’ subsequent phaser design gave us a sleek-yet-functional weapon with multiple interesting features and uses (Cutting torch! Improvised explosive!). You have the small and simple hand unit for covert missions, and the pistol body for more power. The removable handle/powerpack is also genius.
Nothing else since has come close. The TMP redesign is technically more futuristic and sleeker, but lacks visual interest. The TSFS version is a nice throwback to the original design, but is kinda clunky and impractical, with that not-very-ergonomic handle. The assault phaser is a bit chunky, and the ammo clip a little too present-day. The TNG/DS9/VOY designs are all DustBuster-ish. The ENTERPRISE phase pistol feels derivative. The chrome number from the franchise-killing Abramsverse, with its moronic, pivoting stun/kill core, is just, well, moronic. And the STD rehash of the TOS classic is, like everything else on that ****show, an overdesigned, soulless rehash of past glory that’s long gone.
In the end, there can be only one. The TOS phaser is surely in the top three sci-fi weapons of all time, and that’s why we need to be thorough in authenticating any potentially-original props.
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QuasiOdo
Well-Known Member
Agree 100% on all points. Eventually, I need to own one with a blue cutting laser in it. Then I could die happy.
Borg69
Active Member
USS Endeav
Sr Member
Please note that I do absolutely LIKE many of the later designs. But the original phaser is still the best!
You realize just how much the time line changed in the reboot of Star Trek, that OLD Spock has a photo of TOS actors as his friends, right?
Some ideas can't be changed, even if they're changed.
genZOD
Sr Member
There really is something magical that happens during that first rush of creativity. TOS, the original Star Wars trilogy, the first two Aliens films, Blade runner… they just exploded with designs that became iconic. Later interpretations added their own now classic designs (refit Enterprise, Reliant, Darth Maul, BB-8…) but not at anything like the pace of the originals.
USS Endeav
Sr Member
You mean, Leonard Nimoy with the cast of the abrams films? That only exists because of the abomination that is jj _sshole. The same _sshat that brought us the WFT ending in Lost, the anti climactic Cloverfield and the B movie, Overlord. You can subtract all of his "contributions" to the film industry and he wouldn't be missed.
Hungry, talented artists with things to say producing art vs. today’s corporate products/franchises run by suits and hack committees, which are kept going just to make money.
ghostryder
Legendary Member
Does "endorsed" mean "authenticated" - ? Don't understand the semantic jiu-jitsu.
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