Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

[Jintosh]

True but the requisite opening bid was lowered after the auction started which to me indicates it isn't all love and poetry behind the curtain.

According to the auction page, a reserve, if any, will be posted today by 7pm. The auction can also just say "reserve not met" at the end, and this sorta ends nicely.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

One curious thing that remains hanging in this thread, for me, was the claim made in post #395 that that Jein Hero had previously been copied (assuming I am reading the comment correctly)?

The follow-up inquiry from JMSupp was never answered (below):

 

[USS Endeav]

One curious thing that remains hanging in this thread, for me, was the claim made in post #395 that that Jein Hero had previously been copied (assuming I am reading the comment correctly)?

The follow-up inquiry from JMSupp was never answered (below):

View attachment 1474729

Because said claim was made by a troll.

You are aware that said Hero was duplicated by its owner?

Page 20. This is when the troll was very much active.

 

[genZOD]

Fake or real: I’m still puzzled by how this was handled. If this prop was a copy made by me, it’s worth (maybe) a few hundred dollars. If it’s a copy made by a known model maker it’s worth a few thousand — a “celebrity” model maker with good access to the GJ prop and it’s worth a bit more. But those numbers are nothing compared to it’s value as an authentic prop. Now we were talking, potentially, hundreds of thousands. This item’s value is 100% it’s story. Different stories will give it a different value. I would have thought that HA would go out of their way to share every possible scrap of evidence. That evidence IS the value of this prop. With real evidence (if it exists) & the RPF would probably become this auction’s biggest hype machine. At the end of the day: one known Trek expert, another secret group of “experts”, and an unverifiable story isn’t much. There is no documentation aside from the sellers’ letters of authenticity, no stories from the period after the slow ended, no pictures (from any person prior to the sale)… nothing.

 

[Gregatron]

Fake or real: I’m still puzzled by how this was handled. If this prop was a copy made by me, it’s worth (maybe) a few hundred dollars. If it’s a copy made by a known model maker it’s worth a few thousand — a “celebrity” model maker with good access to the GJ prop and it’s worth a bit more. But those numbers are nothing compared to it’s value as an authentic prop. Now we were talking, potentially, hundreds of thousands. This item’s value is 100% it’s story. Different stories will give it a different value. I would have thought that HA would go out of their way to share every possible scrap of evidence. That evidence IS the value of this prop. With real evidence (if it exists) & the RPF would probably become this auction’s biggest hype machine. At the end of the day: one known Trek expert, another secret group of “experts”, and an unverifiable story isn’t much. There is no documentation aside from the sellers’ letters of authenticity, no stories from the period after the slow ended, no pictures (from any person prior to the sale)… nothing.

Exactly. To my mind, there are three possible reasons for the lack of transparency: Legal red tape/complications, incompetence, or fraud.

 

[WinstonWolf359]

Exactly. To my mind, there are three possible reasons for the lack of transparency: Legal red tape/complications, incompetence, or fraud.

Right! I'm especially going to ask this since we have folks participating that have experience outside of the prop realm; are there situations in other high profile, high-dollar item auctions where not disclosing the provenance in detail greater like what we've seen from Heritage is normal and/or caused by legal issues?

I ask because the degree of wink and a pinky swear surrounding this prop is surprising when its authenticity is completely riding on the level of detail required to sell the story. Trek props and the history surrounding Trek props are filled with stories from "I guy I know who's connected" and threats of legal action and similar boogymen. A lot of misinformation about the original props took root and sales of fakes flourished because of that environment.

So while the level of vague inference and cloak and dagger nonsense is certainly familiar, when it's surrounding what could be one of the biggest Trek prop discoveries it seems out of place, especially when this isn't some back room deal.

Unless, of course, it is because incompetence and fraud really are at the heart of this whole story.

 

[Gregatron]

Right! I'm especially going to ask this since we have folks participating that have experience outside of the prop realm; are there situations in other high profile, high-dollar item auctions where disclosing the provenance in detail greater than what we've seen from Heritage is normal and/or caused by legal issues?

I ask because the degree of wink and a pinky swear surrounding this prop is surprising when its authenticity is completely riding on the level of detail required to sell the story. Trek props and the history surrounding Trek props are filled with stories from "I guy I know who's connected" and threats of legal action and similar boogymen. A lot of misinformation about the original props took root and sales of fakes flourished because of that environment.

So while the level of vague inference and cloak and dagger nonsense is certainly familiar, when it's surrounding what could be one of the biggest Trek prop discoveries it seems out of place, especially when this isn't some back room deal.

Unless, of course, it is because incompetence and fraud really are at the heart of this whole story.

Yep, it’s all very strange. We’ve had decades of fakes being sold off as real, “experts” and even official licensees lording it over people, hoarding information/images, and passing off lies as truth. And then you end up with people like Gerald Gurian, owner of multiple fakes, which he insists are real (and spreads misinformation about), and which end up being photographed as the real deal for licensed TREK books and whatnot.

Considering this long history of con artists, con victims who refuse to admit they were conned, and huge egos, that’s why the burden of proof on something like this needs to be very, very heavy. “The experts saw it and say it’s real, so place your bids!” is completely insufficient. If this was, say, 1997, okay, sure. A more innocent time when fakes were sold left and right.

But, no, not today. Unacceptable. No one in their right mind should be bidding on this without some kind of actual, concrete information.

 

[ghostryder]

Aren't there usually a flurry of PR pieces and articles featuring big ticket items from some of the other auctioneers like Propstore, Profiles, etc. before their auctions?

 

[USS Endeav]

Live proxy bidding open.

 

[ghostryder]

What's the advantage in keeping further authentication from potential bidders?

 

[genZOD]

What's the advantage in keeping further authentication from potential bidders?

This process is far too opaque -- given the value and historical significance of the prop.

 

[Gregatron]

This process is far too opaque -- given the value and historical significance of the prop.

No kidding. Given their past record, I'd love to give HeroComm the benefit of the doubt on this, but "The experts say it's real" with no further elaboration or forensic research is insufficient. It's been days since that shocking about-face, and nothing but crickets. Unless they're planning on some kind of statement/clarification/article, and aren't bound by any legal agreement/NDA, the whole thing feels highly dubious. We don't even know if HeroComm's people actually got an in-person look at the thing, or were just given a few names besides Jein's, and took them at their word based on reputation.

 

[Bigdaddy]

The whole case for it's authenticity in an "appeal to authority". I can't imagine who would spend money (especially that much!) on such a fallacious claim.

 

[Jintosh]

It may have been mentioned, but HOW does the handle attach on the Jein and HA Hero? They're so aged... are those pegs metal, or wood or something else ?

 

[robn1]

It may have been mentioned, but HOW does the handle attach on the Jein and HA Hero? They're so aged... are those pegs metal, or wood or something else ?

Off the shelf twist lock electrical connectors.

Hubbell-Wiring Kellems HBL7468 :: Flanged Outlet, 15A, 125V, 2P2W, Midget :: Rexel USA

HUB HBL7468 LKG FLG-RCPT, MIDGET 15A 125V, ML-1R, Cat #: HBL7468, Mfr: Hubbell-Wiring Kellems

www.rexelusa.com

Hubbell-Wiring Kellems HBL7465V :: Locking Plug, Midget, 15A, 125V, 2P2W :: Rexel USA

Locking Plug, Midget, 15A, 125V, 2P2W, Valise, Nylon, Black, .22" - .385" Cord Range, NEMA ML-1R, Cat #: HBL7465V, Mfr: Hubbell-Wiring Kellems

www.rexelusa.com

 

[Gregatron]

Yes, for those who don't know, the handle contains batteries. The electrical twist-lock on top of the handle connects to the female port inside the P2 body shell, which is connected to the leads of the grain-of-wheat lightbulb nestled into the clear acrylic P2 emitter.

 

[USS Endeav]

No kidding. Given their past record, I'd love to give HeroComm the benefit of the doubt on this, but "The experts say it's real" with no further elaboration or forensic research is insufficient. It's been days since that shocking about-face, and nothing but crickets. Unless they're planning on some kind of statement/clarification/article, and aren't bound by any legal agreement/NDA, the whole thing feels highly dubious. We don't even know if HeroComm's people actually got an in-person look at the thing, or were just given a few names besides Jein's, and took them at their word based on reputation.

According to Heritage via email, HC never saw it in person.

 

[genZOD]

I’m going surfing with my daughter this weekend. When I get back, I’ll take a stab at using publicly available blueprints (that claim to be based on the GJ phaser) to build the shells for the hero P1 & P2 in CAD. If I can create a convincing mould (one that y’all think is believable), anybody can.

 

[Jintosh]

Here's my paint test.

 

[Jintosh]

The top coat I added made it a bit dark. I'm lightening it up.