Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

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Read up art forgeries. There are plenty of ways to age old paintings, sculptures and other objects to make them look dirty and worn with realistic weathering.

This also applies to old guns and even cars. All those things have been forged or altered to appear older than they really are. (Or to be associated with historic people or events that they have no connection too like a "7th Cav rifle" or "Hitler's PPK")

Seriously, like I said earlier, I'm looking at this from a different perspective. This has all the tell tales of a fairly well executed con with some effort made to create a convincing new "just found" prop and a seemingly plausible story that covers a multitude of sins. ("It's different because it was repaired")

The story itself, which really can't be checked as the main players are dead.

The fact that no documentation exists to match the story, like say a work order to Chang found in the memos that have been published for "phaser prop repairs" or even any work after his initial work was completed.

Or any references to him having this after the show ended, from anyone, at anytime. No one says, "He mentioned he had one still" or "He showed it to me when I interviewed him" or anything like that.

The fact that it can't be screen matched to any of the four known hero phasers.

That means there is a fifth, previously unknown hero, that was never captured on screen or referenced in any memos. And if the P1 and P2 are supposed to NOT originally be a matching pair, that means that there were TWO previously unknown heroes. (One that is now this P1, and a second that is now the P2 matched to the P1.)

Then look at the object itself. At first glance the construction techniques and wear, etc, look convincing. But then look closer:

The fiberglass on the P2 is thicker than the Jein.

The construction technique with the inlet side rail was not used on the original hero prop. This was something done by early replica prop makers and carried over by others later.

The Velcro is the modern type, not the correct vintage type.

The handle is noticeably different than the Jein handle in shape and size. The handle base plate seems to match a modern commercially available plate.

The nozzle is different from known screen caps AND matches a modern replica nozzle commercially available.

The location of the side knob.

The shape of the side rails that matches the Diamond Select shape.

All those things should be setting off warning bells and red flags. At this point, now that some current production replica parts have been found that appear to have been used (the nozzle, and handle baseplate), I can't imagine how anyone can really believe this is a 55 year old, previously uknown, prop and not a well done fake.

A real test would be buy one of those modern nozzles from eBay and compare it straight across with the auction piece in person. And then compare it to the Jein. I bet in person that modern nozzle will match the one in the auction piece exactly and have even more noticeable differences from the Jein.

Same for the handle baseplate.

Preceisely. The one thing which has me flummoxed is how and why Jein, his associates, and now HeroComm are calling it real.

Is it possible that it IS real, and that they have access to information we don’t? Sure.

But, given the preponderance of the evidence (the incongruities in the piece itself, the extremely shaky providence, etc.), I just don’t see it.

There are way too many convenient answers to troublesome questions here. What, are ALL the incongruities and differences to be handwaved with, “Oh, it was built after the first four heroes, so that’s why it’s different!”? Or, say, “Oh, the piece needed repairs, so the owner used some eBay parts to complete it!”.

We need some hard facts here. Why would Chang be in possession of the prop after his main association with the show had ended? Why would he just give it away? Why is it a dead ringer for the Jein? And so on.
 
Then look at the object itself. At first glance the construction techniques and wear, etc, look convincing. But then look closer:

The fiberglass on the P2 is thicker than the Jein.

The construction technique with the inlet side rail was not used on the original hero prop. This was something done by early replica prop makers and carried over by others later.

At this point, now that some current production replica parts have been found that appear to have been used (the nozzle, and handle baseplate), I can't imagine how anyone can really believe this is a 55 year old, previously uknown, prop and not a well done fake.

A real test would be buy one of those modern nozzles from eBay and compare it straight across with the auction piece in person. And then compare it to the Jein. I bet in person that modern nozzle will match the one in the auction piece exactly and have even more noticeable differences from the Jein.

Same for the handle baseplate.
I agree with you but I have to be the devils advocate for a moment.

By now, surely everyone knows the side rails were glued to the surface. That screen used assets, while they had intricate P1 mechanicals, had a poor approach to attaching the side rails. Why wouldn't our would-be conman do this the same way as the originals??

Fiberglass thickness will never be exact no? It's applied in layers inside the mold so, that can vary no? Like when I'm making a lasagna, maybe the builder had a few extra sheets and didn't want to waste them.

We can certainly look at the eBay parts and say they look the same but short of measuring with a micrometer, we can't be anything more than that.
Though I too would like to see which way the pendulum would swing, towards the GJ or the eBay part.



EDIT:

Could this have been a replica made years ago, say before people took a hard deep dive into the GJ and knew the rails were just glued on and the person made it then waiting for the right time to spring it forward as a real prop? This person would have had to have waited for enough living historians to have passed on. It could account for the side rails when it seems like such an obvious detail a forger could do correctly if doing it today.
 
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A real test would be buy one of those modern nozzles from eBay and compare it straight across with the auction piece in person. And then compare it to the Jein. I bet in person that modern nozzle will match the one in the auction piece exactly and have even more noticeable differences from the Jein.

Same for the handle baseplate.

Excellent post. But, as to this part, you just know that if anyone did it, the "oh, it was repaired over the years" backstory would be invoked to explain it away.

Or, say, “Oh, the piece needed repairs, so the owner used some eBay parts to complete it!”.

In other words, this,. That's exactly what HA and others would say.
 
Read up art forgeries. There are plenty of ways to age old paintings, sculptures and other objects to make them look dirty and worn with realistic weathering.

[...]

A real test would be buy one of those modern nozzles from eBay and compare it straight across with the auction piece in person. And then compare it to the Jein. I bet in person that modern nozzle will match the one in the auction piece exactly and have even more noticeable differences from the Jein.

Same for the handle baseplate.
This is my slightly re-sculpted Diamond Select phaser. It has the metal parts that people are referring to. Mine isn't meant to look like a prop replica, but like a "real" phaser. FWIW, I installed a very powerful blue laser into it. Fun but stupidly dangerous... Anyway, as people have noted, I don't think the DS shell will ever get you to the dimensions of the GJ/HA phasers. I do think that someone could use any number of techniques to create a mould from the Wand Company's phaser. The metal parts I used have their own "tells", I'm sure.

I can't believe how lumpy the paint look in these close up photos. I swear it looks nice in person... Oh well, apparently it's miles better than the "real thing". :)
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Firing the laser -- this has nothing to do with our discussion. It's just fun...


I have a friend who works as a conservator at a museum. She isn't an expert at detecting forgeries. But, every item they take in is reviewed by experts. MOST importantly, experts from different fields. Lets say a forger did create a perfect looking copy of a production phaser. Did that person also use exactly the right period correct materials. Did they use undetectable tricks of the trade to age & whether their copy? Are the tool marks correct? Finally, is there historical evidence that can be corroborated by a source other than the seller? You could make a red shirt from all the flags this "lost phaser" is throwing up.
 
I agree with you but I have to be the devils advocate for a moment.

By now, surely everyone knows the side rails were glued to the surface. That screen used assets, while they had intricate P1 mechanicals, had a poor approach to attaching the side rails. Why wouldn't our would-be conman do this the same way as the originals??

Fiberglass thickness will never be exact no? It's applied in layers inside the mold so, that can vary no? Like when I'm making a lasagna, maybe the builder had a few extra sheets and didn't want to waste them.

We can certainly look at the eBay parts and say they look the same but short of measuring with a micrometer, we can't be anything more than that.
Though I too would like to see which way the pendulum would swing, towards the GJ or the eBay part.



EDIT:

Could this have been a replica made years ago, say before people took a hard deep dive into the GJ and knew the rails were just glued on and the person made it then waiting for the right time to spring it forward as a real prop? This person would have had to have waited for enough living historians to have passed on. It could account for the side rails when it seems like such an obvious detail a forger could do correctly if doing it today.

The person who made it might not have have known for sure how the side rails were attached. He may have thought they were inlet and just missed somehow that they were just glued on.

Or possibly it was not originally made to be passed off as an original. Someone may have just made a nice "well aged" replica, based on the details known of the Jein and from replicas, for his own amusement. In that case getting every detail right wasn't as important. He just wanted something that looked like a real screen used Phaser after 50 years of "wear and tear" and used construction techniques he was familiar with and shortcuts like using commercially available parts. (Nozzle, baseplate)

Heck, maybe the side rails he used are commercially available but require they be inlet to fit correctly! That would explain that detail.

So it's possible that the person that made this might not be the person who is trying to pass it off as original. Who knows how many hands it passed through between when it was made and the auction? (What would be funny if the original builder turned up and said, "Hey, I made that!)
 
The person who made it might not have have known for sure how the side rails were attached. He may have thought they were inlet and just missed somehow that they were just glued on.

Or possibly it was not originally made to be passed off as an original. Someone may have just made a nice "well aged" replica, based on the details known of the Jein and from replicas, for his own amusement. In that case getting every detail right wasn't as important. He just wanted something that looked like a real screen used Phaser after 50 years of "wear and tear" and used construction techniques he was familiar with and shortcuts like using commercially available parts. (Nozzle, baseplate)

Heck, maybe the side rails he used are commercially available but require they be inlet to fit correctly! That would explain that detail.

So it's possible that the person that made this might not be the person who is trying to pass it off as original. Who knows how many hands it passed through between when it was made and the auction? (What would be funny if the original builder turned up and said, "Hey, I made that!)
The side rails that I purchased do indeed require a channel to fit properly.
 
Preceisely. The one thing which has me flummoxed is how and why Jein, his associates, and now HeroComm are calling it real.
Even the experts get fooled. Remember, the expert wants it to be real, consciously or subconsciously. They look at it and see "The things that look right" and the predispositions them to believe it is real. It's not an ego thing, it's basic human nature. (Although once ego gets involved it gets harder for them to retract their opinion. No one likes saying, "I was wrong.")

Read about forgeries and you'll see this happen time and again. The experts are presented with a fairly well made forgery and, only seeing "the things that are right" (and "that no could possibly have faked") they declare it to be real. And then someone else comes along, someone with maybe not the same level of expertise, but who looks at it more objectively, and points out the discrepancies. And, over time, the fake is revealed. (Usually. I'm sure there are plenty of not yet identified fakes of all kinds of things in museums and collections)

In this case the "other expert who came along" was crowd sourced.
 
I agree with you but I have to be the devils advocate for a moment.

By now, surely everyone knows the side rails were glued to the surface. That screen used assets, while they had intricate P1 mechanicals, had a poor approach to attaching the side rails. Why wouldn't our would-be conman do this the same way as the originals??

Fiberglass thickness will never be exact no? It's applied in layers inside the mold so, that can vary no? Like when I'm making a lasagna, maybe the builder had a few extra sheets and didn't want to waste them.

We can certainly look at the eBay parts and say they look the same but short of measuring with a micrometer, we can't be anything more than that.
Though I too would like to see which way the pendulum would swing, towards the GJ or the eBay part.



EDIT:

Could this have been a replica made years ago, say before people took a hard deep dive into the GJ and knew the rails were just glued on and the person made it then waiting for the right time to spring it forward as a real prop? This person would have had to have waited for enough living historians to have passed on. It could account for the side rails when it seems like such an obvious detail a forger could do correctly if doing it today.

Possibly.

Even the John Long P1 from circa 2006 used the slots for the rails in its instructions. Detailed photos of the Jein have been circulating since at least around that time. The phaser “autopsy” video from the 90s has also been floating around for at least a decade.

This is my slightly re-sculpted Diamond Select phaser. It has the metal parts that people are referring to. Mine isn't meant to look like a prop replica, but like a "real" phaser. FWIW, I installed a very powerful blue laser into it. Fun but stupidly dangerous... Anyway, as people have noted, I don't think the DS shell will ever get you to the dimensions of the GJ/HA phasers. I do think that someone could use any number of techniques to create a mould from the Wand Company's phaser. The metal parts I used have their own "tells", I'm sure.

I can't believe how lumpy the paint look in these close up photos. I swear it looks nice in person... Oh well, apparently it's miles better than the "real thing". :)
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Firing the laser -- this has nothing to do with our discussion. It's just fun...


I have a friend who works as a conservator at a museum. She isn't an expert at detecting forgeries. But, every item they take in is reviewed by experts. MOST importantly, experts from different fields. Lets say a forger did create a perfect looking copy of a production phaser. Did that person also use exactly the right period correct materials. Did they use undetectable tricks of the trade to age & whether their copy? Are the tool marks correct? Finally, is there historical evidence that can be corroborated by a source other than the seller? You could make a red shirt from all the flags this "lost phaser" is throwing up.

As Robn1 noted, the auction piece’s side ribs flare out at the front, which does not match the Wand, or pretty much any other commercial replica. Very strange. If it is based on a casting of the Wand, modifications would have been made.

You could make a red shirt from all the flags this "lost phaser" is throwing up.

Best quote of the entire thread.
 
Has Heritage said how the consigner came into possession of the piece?
Nothing that has been publicized beyond that which the auction states.

So, they purport WMC was in possession of the P2, repaired or not is unknown. It is possible he did not perform the repair. If the show was cancelled, he may have shelved it, never performing a repair for which he'd not be reimbursed.


The P1 was acquired by a member of the production crew after filming completed on a second season episode. Now this is strange, the show was in the second season, why dispend a prop that is used rather frequently?

This time line is backwards, though this is how the auction presents it. On the one hand, the P2 was placed with WMC for repair but then the show was cancelled. It is not known when this took place but one can safely conclude this would be the third season and probably the latter half of it.

Why would the P1, which by all accounts is the primary weapon, have been gifted to a production member in the second season while filming is still taking place. Why would the P2 even be repaired since by now, the P1 was gifted to someone?
 
Nothing that has been publicized beyond that which the auction states.

So, they purport WMC was in possession of the P2, repaired or not is unknown. It is possible he did not perform the repair. If the show was cancelled, he may have shelved it, never performing a repair for which he'd not be reimbursed.


The P1 was acquired by a member of the production crew after filming completed on a second season episode. Now this is strange, the show was in the second season, why dispend a prop that is used rather frequently?

This time line is backwards, though this is how the auction presents it. On the one hand, the P2 was placed with WMC for repair but then the show was cancelled. It is not known when this took place but one can safely conclude this would be the third season and probably the latter half of it.

Why would the P1, which by all accounts is the primary weapon, have been gifted to a production member in the second season while filming is still taking place. Why would the P2 even be repaired since by now, the P1 was gifted to someone?
Stranger still: No still or publicity shot of HA’s P1 & P2 have been found. Their back-stories suggest that they didn’t start out as a pair— is there another, never before seen, P1 & P2 out there?

Outside of the seller’s story and the expert evaluation— there doesn’t seem to be any corroborating evidence. No documents, no stories from people who saw them or tried to buy them, no photos… nothing. Nobody’s kids remember playing with them (or wishing they could) in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 2000’s… ever.
 
Re-reading the auction ad copy it states that the current owner of the P-II got it from Wah in the late 60s. So the timeline they're laying out is very short...Studio needs a repair, sends it to Wah, show gets cancelled so Wah just...keeps the phaser? (I hate to belabor that point but it just seems so bizarre) and within six months of Trek being cancelled this unknown person enters the picture and buys or is gifted an incomplete phaser prop. Which they hang on to for 50 years.

I will admit the idea of a prop walking off at the end of the second season doesn't ring as false and the story of the P-II. The writing was on the wall for Trek to be cancelled at the end of the second season, so I'm sure a few things probably end up as mementos at that point. I still question WHY would you take such an ugly prop if you had the opportunity to get one of the better looking ones?

But that would mean that the show began season three with a hero pistol that was missing its hand phaser. And at some point during season three they apparently needed "a" hero pistol repaired. What was the damage, and how did it get damaged? I don't recall any "action" scenes involving a hero in season three, and maybe only one in season two.
 
Re-reading the auction ad copy it states that the current owner of the P-II got it from Wah in the late 60s. So the timeline they're laying out is very short...Studio needs a repair, sends it to Wah, show gets cancelled so Wah just...keeps the phaser? (I hate to belabor that point but it just seems so bizarre) and within six months of Trek being cancelled this unknown person enters the picture and buys or is gifted an incomplete phaser prop. Which they hang on to for 50 years.

I will admit the idea of a prop walking off at the end of the second season doesn't ring as false and the story of the P-II. The writing was on the wall for Trek to be cancelled at the end of the second season, so I'm sure a few things probably end up as mementos at that point. I still question WHY would you take such an ugly prop if you had the opportunity to get one of the better looking ones?

But that would mean that the show began season three with a hero pistol that was missing its hand phaser. And at some point during season three they apparently needed "a" hero pistol repaired. What was the damage, and how did it get damaged? I don't recall any "action" scenes involving a hero in season three, and maybe only one in season two.
In defense of the story as told:

1. Props do get "misplaced" or outright stolen during a show's production run. So a hero phaser turning up missing at the end of S2 is reasonable.

2. There didn't need to be an "action scene" for a prop to get damaged. It could have just been dropped at some point, and not even while filming a scene. And any scene where a prop is used it could get dropped, get knocked off a table, or something. I think it was Shatner who had a phaser fall off his belt while breaking Khan's glass tube in "Space Seed."

This doesn't change the fact I now think it's a "replica/fake." I'm just saying don't agonize over small details of the story that do seem possible and focus on the bigger picture.
 
I have a friend who works as a conservator at a museum. She isn't an expert at detecting forgeries. But, every item they take in is reviewed by experts. MOST importantly, experts from different fields. Lets say a forger did create a perfect looking copy of a production phaser. Did that person also use exactly the right period correct materials. Did they use undetectable tricks of the trade to age & whether their copy? Are the tool marks correct? Finally, is there historical evidence that can be corroborated by a source other than the seller? You could make a red shirt from all the flags this "lost phaser" is throwing up.

That has been my concern all along. It would be one thing to look at this auction phaser, look at just the GJ and say "well, it's different but within the limits of what you'd expect from something hand made" and conclude based on that it must be authentic. But where I think this piece really begins to unravel is when you compare it to modern replicas and modern parts and find so many things that match perfectly. I suppose much like a broken clock being right twice a day it is possible whoever machined those nozzles back in 1966 made one that looked less like all of the others and more like one you could buy on eBay in 2021...but that doesn't seem very likely to me.

When I look at the phaser build ups using those eBay parts I see the same kind of weathering/aging techniques at play on the auction phaser.

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I just wonder if GJ saw some of the replicas out there right now if he'd still feel that the auction phaser must be real just because it seems close enough...
 
I just want to know when/if we're going to hear WHY Jein, his associates, and those at HeroComm have dubbed it as genuine. What are those reasons? I hope they come clean, because what's stacking up are many strikes against it being the real deal.
 
That has been my concern all along. It would be one thing to look at this auction phaser, look at just the GJ and say "well, it's different but within the limits of what you'd expect from something hand made" and conclude based on that it must be authentic. But where I think this piece really begins to unravel is when you compare it to modern replicas and modern parts and find so many things that match perfectly. I suppose much like a broken clock being right twice a day it is possible whoever machined those nozzles back in 1966 made one that looked less like all of the others and more like one you could buy on eBay in 2021...but that doesn't seem very likely to me.

When I look at the phaser build ups using those eBay parts I see the same kind of weathering/aging techniques at play on the auction phaser.

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I just wonder if GJ saw some of the replicas out there right now if he'd still feel that the auction phaser must be real just because it seems close enough...


As I said upthread, I immediately thought of the Lussier midgrade builds with their heavy weathering when I saw the auction photos.
 
Soooo, anyone think this thing is going to be pulled before the auction closes? No sale, no reputations damaged, no harm done... but a great deal of publicity for the auction.
 
True but the requisite opening bid was lowered after the auction started which to me indicates it isn't all love and poetry behind the curtain.
 
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