3D Printer - Realistic Costs

[nickjm007]

Hello! First post on the forums, but long-time visitor. Here's some info I can share.

PRINTER
Formlabs' Form 1 printer is $3300 and their proprietary printing resin is about $0.15 per cubic centimeter. There are, reportedly, no extra costs for upkeeping the printer as it's meant to be a plug-and-print solution. Once you've created models to print, its included software prepares the model for printing. The printing area is 125mm x 125mm x 165mm (about 4.9" x 4.9" x 6.5"). It has an incredible resolution with a 25 micron (.001") minimum layer thckness and 300 micron (.012") minimum feature. Instead of melting and extruding hplastic like the Replicator and MakerBot style machines, it uses a professional level process called stereolithography (i.e., SL), which means a super accurate laser hardens thin layers until the build is finished. I've just ordered mine and it will arive by May. I'll update with notes and pictures once I've printed my project. Check out the printer and pictures of sample prints on their website: Formlabs - High Resolution Desktop 3D Printer

Hope this helps someone!

 

[moonwalk]

can anyone 3d print a ARES SWORD from XENA for me total length is 31 inches

 

[moonwalk]

sweet i am looking to get a nice 3d printer also but the table size has to be large for bigger props what is the one i should get any help would be great

 

[JOATRASH FX]

Formlabs' Form 1 printer is $3300...

I've been eyeballing the F1 for a while now and there are several similar printers in development that use the same tech for $2500-3500. From all the previews it LOOKS to be perfect for props, scale models and even limited miniatures use BUT I'm very much in the "wait and see some REAL results" space with them. Techs specs and such promise a LOT. They cost 1/10 of the printers that commercial places use yet they claim to be close in quality, so naturally I'm skeptical. I HOPE that they really do deliver and if so, I'm definitely considering getting one but time will tell.

 

[toddbg]

I've been eyeballing the F1 for a while now and there are several similar printers in development that use the same tech for $2500-3500. From all the previews it LOOKS to be perfect for props, scale models and even limited miniatures use BUT I'm very much in the "wait and see some REAL results" space with them. Techs specs and such promise a LOT. They cost 1/10 of the printers that commercial places use yet they claim to be close in quality, so naturally I'm skeptical. I HOPE that they really do deliver and if so, I'm definitely considering getting one but time will tell.

I've been watching this one as well. I know they had some delays and patent issues, but it appears as though all of those have been resolved (fingers crossed).

The resolution on that printer seems like it would be perfect for many small models and limited run pieces. I wonder what the strength and durability are compared to some of the materials from Shapeways...

 

[Finhead]

It should be almost exactly the same as Shapeways Ultra Detail light cured resin. Not strong at all and unless it's thick enough it will sag. Gets very nice detail but tiny print volume and high resin cost is a draw back, unless you only ever pint small pieces that do not need to be strong.

I've been watching this one as well. I know they had some delays and patent issues, but it appears as though all of those have been resolved (fingers crossed).

The resolution on that printer seems like it would be perfect for many small models and limited run pieces. I wonder what the strength and durability are compared to some of the materials from Shapeways...

 

[salmon]

Other than Formlabs Form 1, which I do not think I will go that route, what about some of the other 3D printers out there like the RepRap type printers? Makerbot is cool and a quick setup, but has anyone used the more kit types out there?

The primary use will be for students to print simple creations from AutoCAD.

Peace,
tom

 

[toddbg]

I've used - but not configured or built - the makerbot kit, mendel, and reprap.

All produced pretty much the same results - which is to say decent but stepped.
I am curious to try the method from a whitepaper a college student did that easily smooths out the surfaces of extruded models.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

It should be almost exactly the same as Shapeways Ultra Detail light cured resin. Not strong at all and unless it's thick enough it will sag. Gets very nice detail but tiny print volume and high resin cost is a draw back, unless you only ever pint small pieces that do not need to be strong.

I doubt it will have the res of the Ultra Detail... maybe the detail. The ultra is insanely fine. Is IS very brittle in thin layers.

 

[Eirinn]

I have a printrbot plus V1 which was about $650-750. It's cheap but it's high maintenance :/

*edit: if you give an item the acetone vapour treatment the lines disappear.

 

[DonS]

I have a printrbot plus V1 which was about $650-750. It's cheap but it's high maintenance :/

*edit: if you give an item the acetone vapour treatment the lines disappear.

Now that's interesting. I've been considering a Form1 but the small build volume was a bit of downer...but this treatment makes the FDM printers look much more attractive.

D.

 

[salmon]

I have a printrbot plus V1 which was about $650-750. It's cheap but it's high maintenance :/

*edit: if you give an item the acetone vapour treatment the lines disappear.

I am old, what is the acetone vapor treatment? In my youth, that would have had a different connotation than I am sure your referring to.

 

[Sigma-LS]

I would be all over a Form 1 because it does exactly what I need in the size and resolution department. My only concern is the software. I can upload a model to Shapeways with more holes than a leaky bucket and it can usually make sense of it.

I don't want to sink 3 grand into a machine only to find out all my 3D work is going to have to be almost completely redone.

But then again, software is updateable and upgradeable...

I'll make a call in December I guess.

 

[darthviper107]

It should be almost exactly the same as Shapeways Ultra Detail light cured resin. Not strong at all and unless it's thick enough it will sag. Gets very nice detail but tiny print volume and high resin cost is a draw back, unless you only ever pint small pieces that do not need to be strong.

It should be stronger than that, the shapeways material isn't quite solid, but the Form 1 material would end up as one solid piece, and it's a stronger material anyways, thin parts should be more bendable than breakable, but only at very very thin parts.

I doubt it will have the res of the Ultra Detail... maybe the detail. The ultra is insanely fine. Is IS very brittle in thin layers.

The Z layer thickness is 50 microns, compared to 16 of the Shapways prints, but, it will have a much much higher quality surface finish. Also, it has a much higher quality on the XY resolution since in that direction the laser is just going over edges, so that dimension should be completely smooth.

I would be all over a Form 1 because it does exactly what I need in the size and resolution department. My only concern is the software. I can upload a model to Shapeways with more holes than a leaky bucket and it can usually make sense of it.

I don't want to sink 3 grand into a machine only to find out all my 3D work is going to have to be almost completely redone.

But then again, software is updateable and upgradeable...

I'll make a call in December I guess.

The only issue is the support structures. Basically any islands (where it doesn't have something to build off of from the bottom) will need a support. Compared to extruder type printers though the Form 1 can have layers that are a pretty good amount bigger than previously printed layers, since each layer is supported by the bottom of the vat as it gets printed.
The supports mean you will have to manually remove them and smooth where they connected. It can be an issue for areas that need a lot of supports in one place, and if you can't get to the supports then you can't remove them. One issue with Shapeways prints though is that the support wax on those doesn't always come off and you can end up with a rough surface on your entire print.

 

[Nwerke]

Hello! First post on the forums, but long-time visitor. Here's some info I can share.

Good luck! You're a braver man than I. As a startup outfit, customers are inevitably taking a bit of a risk signing up off the prospectus. Really hope it pays off for you, though!

From all the previews it LOOKS to be perfect for props, scale models and even limited miniatures use BUT I'm very much in the "wait and see some REAL results" space with them.

Ditto. If this machine delivers then it will be amazing.

I'd be ecstatic if there was such a beast as a home SLS system but AFAIK there's not one in development. Pity.

 

[Redteardrop]

Not sure if the OP got what he wanted out of opening this can of worms so to speak.
I would have to say from all I have found on researching the different machines is that you have to decide how much time and effort you are willing to put into tweaking and calibrating vs price spent.
If you want to have a nice commercial machine that can do overhangs without support material and not tweak things over and over again a machine like the zcorp 150 would be worth looking into at $15000. If you want to go the cheap route to save money now and just keep up with calibration and upgrades, the printrbot would be worth looking at for $700 (that's what I am planning on getting).
There are the in between ones like the replicator and the others in the $2000 range that still have the issues most FDM machines would, but don't require as much labor as the cheaper ones.
Basically the age old adage of "you get what you pay for" is apt.
Of course the difference in price of the replicators and zcorp may be big enough where it's not justifiable for anybody to get without being able to use it in a business or just have money to blow.

 

[JOATRASH FX]

It should be stronger than that, the shapeways material isn't quite solid, but the Form 1 material would end up as one solid piece...

It's not really that simple. Shapeways (and other print places) have lots of different materials to choose from. For example, the "strong flexible" material at SW is VERY tough compared to the detail material. Without being able to actually compare with the F1, it's hard to say, but it LOOKS quite fragile- or at least it seems to have the same visual properties of the more fragile types.

In addition... the "solid" comment isn't really applicable either as again, Shapeways has several materials, only a couple of which are porous in nature (if that was what you meant). If you meant "solid" as in filled-in that also depends on the model.

The Z layer thickness is 50 microns, compared to 16 of the Shapways prints, but, it will have a much much higher quality surface finish. Also, it has a much higher quality on the XY resolution since in that direction the laser is just going over edges, so that dimension should be completely smooth.

Tech specs are one thing... we'll have to wait and see how well itprints in actuality. A lot of the extruder-type printers boast very good tech specs as well, but the results are not comparable.

The only issue is the support structures. ...
The supports mean you will have to manually remove them and smooth where they connected.

The need for a lot of "printed" support (as opposed to wax in the detail material) carries the risk of being a bigger cleanup problem than print lines. On the other hand, the wax DOES take a few baths in strong solvent to get rid of. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Eirinn]

I am old, what is the acetone vapor treatment? In my youth, that would have had a different connotation than I am sure your referring to.

Hack A Day has some really good articles about the subject.

Do be aware that the treatment has a tendency to cause a "subdivision" effect making crisp edges a bit round. this can cause loss of detail.

Search Results acetone vapor

 

[darthviper107]

It's not really that simple. Shapeways (and other print places) have lots of different materials to choose from. For example, the "strong flexible" material at SW is VERY tough compared to the detail material. Without being able to actually compare with the F1, it's hard to say, but it LOOKS quite fragile- or at least it seems to have the same visual properties of the more fragile types.

In addition... the "solid" comment isn't really applicable either as again, Shapeways has several materials, only a couple of which are porous in nature (if that was what you meant). If you meant "solid" as in filled-in that also depends on the model.

The comparison is to the highest quality material that Shapeways offer, which is Frosted Ultra Detail, the only material they have that's really useful to people like us that need the detail. It's much more brittle than the material that the Form 1 uses. If you don't need much detail, like say for a large hull type part, then you can go with some stronger materials.

Tech specs are one thing... we'll have to wait and see how well itprints in actuality. A lot of the extruder-type printers boast very good tech specs as well, but the results are not comparable.

In my experience with printers like the Form 1, the quality ends up being better than what you get from Shapeways at the highest quality, even with some lower tech specs like the Z-axis resolution.

The need for a lot of "printed" support (as opposed to wax in the detail material) carries the risk of being a bigger cleanup problem than print lines. On the other hand, the wax DOES take a few baths in strong solvent to get rid of. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.

Most of the time it's not an issue since you can usually get supports on areas where you won't lose detail by removing them, but you can get issues with something like a figurine with hair where you can end up requiring a lot of supports. Shapeways actually kind of sucks at using their own printers and some stuff ends up with a rough surface that you can't get rid of.

 

[v3d]

Thanks to everybody who posted in this thread. I had the same question about real world costs. I already have 3D Studio Max, so that expense is out of the way and I have models ready to go once I pull the trigger on the purchase of a printer.

Just for some perspective, back around 1992 I paid $1000 for an HP scanner. So the price of these printers is very reasonable.