Wooden master and stunt casts

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vader45

Sr Member
This is very interesting. I don't quite get how you would make a mould from that particular one piece round pattern if it was solid. It would be very useful to know. All reference I came across when I was self teaching had 2 piece patterns. The ally sabers quality clearly show to me they were cast by someone who really knew their stuff.
Steven giunta: Unfortunately the video you've chosen to demonstrate this doesn't. At 1.50 he clearly 'glues' on the other half of a 2 piece master. I'll have a look on Ytube see what I can find.

Have you ever heard of a 2 piece mold?
 

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Mouse Vader

Sr Member
Have you ever heard of a 2 piece mold?
Not sure what you're getting at Vader45. Yes I have. It's what I used in my brass casting. We have been discussing the pattern (aka buck) used to make the 2 piece greensand mould & how that can be done from a one piece ( or 2 piece ) pattern. Steve linked a video in which he say the guy used a one piece pattern & I was pointing out he actually used a 2 piece one. Does that help ?
 

Dann

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Mouse, go watch some Youtube videos by MyFordBoy.

The wooden buck most certainly did NOT need to be bisected for aluminum casting.

The guy I linked you to does do some lost (whatever material the part is made of) casting, but he also does some lossless casting.

Either way, his videos are so relaxing to watch. He doesn't talk. He just works his magic.
 

vader45

Sr Member
Not sure what you're getting at Vader45. Yes I have. It's what I used in my brass casting. We have been discussing the pattern (aka buck) used to make the 2 piece greensand mould & how that can be done from a one piece ( or 2 piece ) pattern. Steve linked a video in which he say the guy used a one piece pattern & I was pointing out he actually used a 2 piece one. Does that help ?

It was in response to your confusion as to how a solid piece is molded. I'm not sure how you are confused if you heard of a 2 part mold.
 

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LOM

Well-Known Member
I finally get what you mean Mouse Vader lol. I spent some more time looking for videos of similarly shaped bucks... but I have yet to find something as well. I agree that if in the video I linked, he had to stand on it to get in the mold, I can imagine a buck of this size/diameter would be a lot harder to do. So in theory, it seems possible and we have a lot of people in this thread that know its possible (and as said, the prop guys probably have probably cast a ton of similar things and would know how to do this) but we just need to find a solid example.

Also PoopaPapaPalps , I just noticed the brown splotch from that photo is not present in the propstore auction photos, perhaps it was some sort of glue and was cleaned off? I think it might have been the pour spout or a vent (I don't know the proper terms to use here) since the the metal cast it looks like that is where it was poured:
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One thing that I am definitely going to disagree on now is the buck having been split, as in this photo I don't see any thing that resembles a seam where it looks as if the paint has worn down (on the top of the windvane) If there was a seam line, I feel like it would be visible there:
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PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Now that we know the top part of the neck on the v2 actually slides down Into the bottom part could that be the reason there is a seam there?if they casted it a few times,cut the emitter and top of neck off then recasted just the emitter and neck.sanding down the bottom piece got slide into the piece on top of the windvane. .

I'm of a similar idea. I think they used the single buck to cast multiple parts from it. It is a heck of a lot more work than just to machine something from stock down, but who knows what they were thinking when doing it. The V3 pommel is nearly a dead ringer for the what the buck sports.

...I'm still not 100% convinced that the push it into the sand method works for something with this diam. The examples given of the Jaguar mascot & tool handle don't have the same thickness / displacement (I do believe you both). I'll keep looking for confirmation on how something if this diameter is done...

Most viable method seems to be like in the sword-making video (the flashy "tv show" looking one), where half of the frame was placed on top of a smaller one over the buck, then filled, flipped, and then leveled to complete the other half. Pour gate most likely ran from where the filing marks are on the body, and considering how clean this cast is, I think they degassed their metal and used an extended sprue/gate that ran perpendicular to the negative to keep the metal from sloshing around inside the cavity (trapping air bubbles). Results of my pouring directly into the cavity always leaves defects around the opening of the gate (pockmarking and contraction), and probably had a vent/riser coming from the stump. This is all conjecture until I can actually test it, of course.
 

Mouse Vader

Sr Member
I'm not sure how you are confused if you heard of a 2 part mold.
My problem isn't how a solid piece is cast in a mould - it's how the mould is made in the first place. I've always used a pattern that's in 2 pieces. One half is used to make the first mould 'side', the second pattern piece is then mated to it's corresponding half & the remaining mould 'side' formed on top. We aren't sure how the two mould halves can be made from a one piece pattern that's as bulky as the V2-3.

LOM - PPP: well summarised & I agree with all of it.

Dann - I'm off to look a MyFordBoy :)
 

Mouse Vader

Sr Member
Couldn't find any myfordboy video that covers anything like this saber pattern. He has one for a one piece cylinder pattern but he moulds vertically with a board separator to 'divide' the pattern. I once made a recessed board to use a one piece pattern for a pistol frame as a 2 piece pattern would be fiddly (I never got round to using it). Would be a bit fiddly to make even a silhouette holed board for the saber though as I think you'd have to do the bits for grip grooves. Doesn't mean they didn't of course. Apart from that the method from the fantasy sword quilllon video earlier are all I can come up with so far.
(boy internet is slow today - can't think why :) )

Mould00208.JPG Mould00209.JPG
 

Ridire Firean

Sr Member
Hey Gang! Here's a silly thought for y'all to chew on...

What if the spot on the buck in the clamp area...

ls_1-jpg-jpeg.jpg


...was at one point a dowel rod poking out of the side? The rod would have made it easy to remove the buck after having pressed it into the sand. Since it's a spun part, and both "sides" would be the same, they just repeated the process twice, once on each half of the mold.

Has anyone with a casting ever compared the grain patterns on both "sides" to see if they're identical????

That or it's just a paint chip where a knot in the wood prevented the paint from adhering correctly.
 

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Dann

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Couldn't find any myfordboy video that covers anything like this saber pattern. He has one for a one piece cylinder pattern but he moulds vertically with a board separator to 'divide' the pattern. I once made a recessed board to use a one piece pattern for a pistol frame as a 2 piece pattern would be fiddly (I never got round to using it). Would be a bit fiddly to make even a silhouette holed board for the saber though as I think you'd have to do the bits for grip grooves. Doesn't mean they didn't of course. Apart from that the method from the fantasy sword quilllon video earlier are all I can come up with so far.
(boy internet is slow today - can't think why :) )

View attachment 1285544 View attachment 1285545
Myfordboy has a TON of videos, there's GOTTA be one in there somewhere that'll satisfy what you're wanting to see!
 

Mouse Vader

Sr Member
Ok Dann I'll have another look. Most of them didn't seem to be about casting. I was looking in the video tab, that usually contains everything right?
 

Mouse Vader

Sr Member
Well Dann. I've looked at all 93 of Myfordboys casting video's. Only 4 are about casting odd shapes but one of those is of interest (& I managed to miss it 1st time). Although not a cylindrical item the method could be adapted to cast the saber. In summary something like this:

1st flask half is rammed full - no pattern. A trench is dug in it slightly smaller than the pattern & the pattern pressed in half way. 2nd flask half stacked & rammed as normal & flask split. It's feasible pattern could be removed & the mould used but in Myfordboys case the 1st flask side is knocked out then a new one made against the 2 flask side (which still has the pattern). You would now have a 2 piece greensand mould from a one piece round pattern. Of course they may have used some variation of this or something combining this method & the other one but it looks like a quick eonough & easy enough method to get what we want. I also makes me think that they weren't intent on making that many. Maybe a dozen or fewer. More than that & it would have more time economic to make a 2 part pattern or a pattern board. I think the out of register parts are a result of the removal of the pattern, probably in a hurry, from the side it stuck in when the flask was split.

Thanks for making look at them again. A lot more to see than is 1st apparent . Love all his homemade / adapted equipment.

PPP - Myfordboy uses sodium carbonate (washing soda) in a small foil wrap pushed to the bottom of the crucible as a degassing agent & casts at 650 deg C. Does not recommend drinks cans, food containers etc as scrap for casting. Uses ally that is from cast products. There's lots of useful stuff to on his castings video playlist.

 

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steven giunta

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
That round spot looks to be a hole,My guess is either a peg to keep it from moving when doing the mold or a peg they would use as a pour spout. Could be both.
C8FD3369-42EE-4B65-ADFA-A38D1A20568C.png
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I’m now starting to believe the blank cast is a recast.. hear me out

The casted then wood buck with pommel

Can’t get it to fit in the lathe

Lathed down there cast blanks pommel

Started casting the new machined blank..

Idk I’m just sitting down and having dinner now been a long day
 

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