Why has nobody tackled the Shredder Helmet??

[d_osborn]

i'll do some digging over the next week. i'm sure i have several old magazines with potentially good reference... i know of at least one collector with some TMNT 1 shoulder armor, which i THINK has the same surface material as the helmet.

if no one else posts screen caps, i'll go through the film and nab as many good frames as i see....

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

TMNT 1 shoulder armor, which i THINK has the same surface material as the helmet.

that sound helpful, yeah see what you can come up with.

 

[The Death Curse]

Okay, here are a couple of my best helmet detail caps...

Ryan

 

[The Death Curse]

Well, I've been examining a few pictures of mine since I made my last post here.

I am starting to think that, instead of chain mail, what we are ACTUALLY seeing is layer upon layer of some notched material over the entire surface of the helmet...Kinda like the outside walls of a house would have those ...board things that are angled outward.

Whether it's an add-on or sculpted in, I can't say. I drew out a picture of what I think I see...Let me know what you guys think:

Ryan

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

I think its suggestive of mail....as seen on various effigial sculptures:

Or he could be


"King of the wicker people"

 

[The Death Curse]

Originally posted by Durasteel Corporation@Feb 26 2006, 09:23 PM
I think its suggestive of mail....as seen on various effigial sculptures:

Or he could be


"King of the wicker people"

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:lol But seriously, I doubt it's wicker OR a weave...

I stand by my previous statement. I think the "gaps" in the detail are too far apart - and WAY too straight-edged - to be chainmail. Plus, I don't see rings in those images. If it was chainmail, we would be able to see rings around the back edge of the helmet. Instead, I see a flat pattern that cuts off in an abrupt line at the edge of the helm. I think the way the light plays off of the surface makes it harder to tell it's that simplistic, though.

C'mon, people. Let's get some EXTREMELY high-res pictures up in here. I know some of you can cap stuff...

EDIT: Another reason it couldn't be chain mail, is that the "pattern" becomes more widely-spaced as it goes down toward the edges of the helm...Chain mail usually stays entirely uniform and evenly spaced.

Ryan

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

I agree. Its not chain mail...but I think its suggestive of it.

His helmet would be a nice lawn chair/prop in the summer time if it were a wicker wannabe.

 

[Kylash]

can we say sculptin time?

 

[allosaur176]

if that was actually made from chainmail, wouldn't that sucker be pretty heavy to wear on your head???

 

[The Death Curse]

Originally posted by allosaur176@Feb 27 2006, 09:17 AM
if that was actually made from chainmail, wouldn't that sucker be pretty heavy to wear on your head???

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Hell, if any part of that helmet was metal - ESPECIALLY the blades - it would be fantastically heavy to wear. You can see in those pics that whatever that helmet blade is made of, it's certainly not a hollow "casting" or "shaped plate"...It's solid all the way around. I'd be more apt to think of that thing as a solid resin casting that was sanded extremely smooth, then painted "metal" moreso than a real, heavy, metal attachment...Especially since they had Henson Studios doing the costuming for the film. Those people are absolute geniuses when it comes to costumes.

Hmm...Come to think of it, Shredder wasn't very apt to making quick, jerky head motions in TMNT I or II....So that helmet must've been a real pain to wear, regardless.

Ryan

 

[The Death Curse]

:eek WHOOOAAA.. Hold the phone...I just found some compelling evidence for the "Wicker King" believers...

Check out the top right of the helmet, right under the blade. You can see a piece or two of the "weavework" sticking out.. This also offers a good view of the underside of the mask and helmet...I seem to see some kind of helmet "base" underneath that the weave pattern wraps around.

None of that "metal" stuff looks like real metal to me. I see sculpt lines. I'd be willing to bet that it's all a bunch of painted resin.

They also obviously used the same helmet - or even the same mold, if there was one - for TMNT II, because it has the same "weave" pattern on it under all the extra stuff they added. (It can be seen from rear-view shots.)

Ryan

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

if that was actually made from chainmail, wouldn't that sucker be pretty heavy to wear on your head???

Hell, if any part of that helmet was metal - ESPECIALLY the blades - it would be fantastically heavy to wear. You can see in those pics that whatever that helmet blade is made of, it's certainly not a hollow "casting" or "shaped plate"...It's solid all the way around.

Again....I dont think their attempt was to simulate wicker....

CRASH COURSE IN ASIAN ARMOR

http://www3.uakron.edu/worldciv/china/ch-armor.html

http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/3505/
this can take a few seconds to load but its a great site)

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html

http://www.fsinet.or.jp/~usa/historyus.html


And....guys, I make, sell and wear real armor....
http://www.partsandtechnical.com/historicalarmour.html

e.g.:

En generalmente,

the average steel helmet is 7lbs.

Add chain mail and it can up to 10lbs

HOWEVER, before ya freak out, *think* distributed weight.

It means that you dont feel all that weight at once in the sense of 17 lbs pressuing one single inch of your noggin.

Just as an aside, my suit of armor is 85 lbs..granted Im 6'7 and the weight is proportionate to my size....but each part is only a few lbs so its not like its all weighing on my shoulders........a normal guy would have worn 45-60 lbs of armor.....again NOT all on the shoulders....

.....and do you drive a car?

Was it hard at first... yeah sorta....but you got used to it, you got used to hitting mail boxes and pedestrians.....as time progressed, no sweat right.

Same with armor...these "warriors of old" wore armor at a young age and were quite used to it...

but if you held a helmet you might freak out....MY GOD, its 17lbs....

....yeah, if you lift it with just your trapezeous muscle or bicep....

but your neck muscle is one of the strongest muscles in your body ....

and with a chinstrap (DING DING DING) the weight is suddenly disapated.



So real, presumed armor VS.... movie prop....yeah I get it.

Just wanted to elucidate some points.

btw, my fiberglass vader helmet is about 7 lbs. Is that impossibly heavy?

 

[Durasteel Corporation]

that photo angle above also betrays a solid material...look how close it is to his chin.....I do agree looks solid in some photos especially the back...just worth mentioning.

 

[LordFett]

I've always thought his helmet was a weave, maybe not bamboo but a metal weave?

 

[Kylash]

gah...id start sculpting this thing right now if my half finished movie Dr Doom wasnt sitting on my sculpting bust

 

[dr_slurpee]

I think people are forgetting that it doesn't really matter what real asian armor or real helmets would be made from, what matters is matching what the helmet looked like on screen...unless you guys are looking for an idealized version, which I assumed you weren't.

Perhaps real helmets wouldn't have been made of wicker, but to me that is exactly what it seems they were trying to replicate. In a "realistic" sense I doubt it would have been a helmet for actual combat but rather one for ceremony or something like that. I could be completely wrong but I thought I'd put my two cents in.

 

[The Death Curse]

Hrm. Those are good points, Durasteel...and good links. I guess it wouldn't be that heavy, afterall. I'm unfamiliar with armor in general, sadly. Thanks for the info.

Come to think of it, a helmet WAS crushed in a trash compactor at the end of the film, and its blade compacted like a tin can...So there was at least one metal helmet blade on set. They may have even crushed the hero helmet itself, blade and all. ( )

So with THAT in mind, we can be pretty sure that the helmet's huge, three-pronged blade was fashioned of metal.

By the way, the Shredder helmet in the first film didn't have a chin strap. You can see this plainly when he pulls off the face mask at the end of the film. It just fits rather snugly on his head.

As for the helmet "solidity"...If it is indeed wicker-weaved on the outside surface, I would expect there to be some kind of guide cap and sides of the helm that were molded and then used as a base for the wicker for stabilization and shape purposes. I mean, in every front-on picture I've ever seen of it, there are no visible openings in the helmet's surface. In newest pic I posted, I can even see what seems to be a portion of the base's somewhat rounded edge protruding out of the weave...and it looks as though that weave wraps around the corner of something.

LordFett: I certainly hope it's not a metal weave. :lol As far as I can tell, it doesn't have a metallic glare...It looks more organic, if anything.

Ryan

 

[The Death Curse]

Originally posted by dr_slurpee@Feb 27 2006, 02:05 PM
I think people are forgetting that it doesn't really matter what real asian armor or real helmets would be made from, what matters is matching what the helmet looked like on screen...unless you guys are looking for an idealized version, which I assumed you weren't.

Perhaps real helmets wouldn't have been made of wicker, but to me that is exactly what it seems they were trying to replicate. In a "realistic" sense I doubt it would have been a helmet for actual combat but rather one for ceremony or something like that. I could be completely wrong but I thought I'd put my two cents in.

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I agree with this post completely.

I want a look that is accurate to the movie, not accurate to historical armor.

As long as the replica looks accurate, I think shortcuts are almost needed on this project...or else this helmet (and the part 2 helmet even moreso) are going to end up costing a bajillion dollars to buy. Although accuracy is a BIG must, if there is something metal in the film that you could manufacture more efficiently and cheaply (say, in resin for example) and still keep the look, shape, and details, then I say go for it. Otherwise, each of these things are going to end up costing something like $500 to $600 a piece...A price which is presently so far out of my range that I can't even see it with binoculars.

Ryan

 

[allosaur176]

Originally posted by The Death Curse@Feb 27 2006, 03:39 PM

I want a look that is accurate to the movie, not accurate to historical armor.

As long as the replica looks accurate, I think shortcuts are almost needed on this project..

Ryan

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I agree with you... I think that there must be some sort of resin or fiberglass incorperated into this project.. I would love for this piece to be 100% movie accurate, and not sure that 100% metal will do that, but DS knows for sure what he can and cannot do, so I trust his judgement

 

[nick daring]

I always thought it was wicker when I watched it.

Nick