Why has nobody tackled the Shredder Helmet??

Discussion in 'Replica Props' started by allosaur176, Feb 21, 2006.

  1. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    I've been wondering this for awhile, I always wanted a movie version of this helmet, and it seems like a pretty simple task for some of the talented members here to make.... Has anyone here attempted to make this??
     
  2. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    i think they're just being nice, since they know my head would explode if one ever came available. i appreciate it, guys.

    an even easier prop from the TMNT film would be the casey jones hockey mask. someone made a custom designed mask a while back, but nothing accurate to the first film.
     
  3. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    Yes, that I have from design fx, its not bad actually, but I do wish it was more spot on
     
  4. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    my apprentice suggested we make this.


    It just seemed like there were so many versions.

    Id love to make one, shoot me an email.
     
  5. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    Your apprentice is a pretty smart fellow... :)

    Email sent
     
  6. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    I'd most DEFINITELY be interested in a Shred replica. His helmet and mask are my Holy Grail of prop collecting.

    By the way, I have LOTS of screen caps of the entire helmet from the first film taken from nearly all angles...Whoever's interested in taking a shot at extreme accuracy on this, let me know. I'll zip and send these pics on over to ya.

    Ryan
     
  7. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    a BIG regret of mine over the past few years was turning down a set of 300 costuming continuity polaroids from the set of TMNT 1. LOTS of good shots of shred's helmet.

    durasteel- unless you count the various toon and comic helmets, there were only two in the films. i'm BIG TIME interested if you were to make a few replicas. ;)
     
  8. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear.... :( I am really sorry you missed out on those.

    I wish more TMNT stuff in general would find its way to the hands of people who are willing to share it or put it to good use...

    Just to clarify my last post, I'm MOST interested in a TMNT Part 1 replica...Though the second film's helmet is great, too, I'd like to see the original movie version created first...in the same way I'd own a Giger alien design over a Stan Winston alien design. The original just had more of an impact on me.

    Ryan
     
  9. Prop-Maker

    Prop-Maker Well-Known Member

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    S***, I'd buy one of those, if they ever became available. Wearable, preferably.
     
  10. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Send me pics of the helmet style you like best, second best etc.

    Ill see what I can do.

    D
     
  11. zorg

    zorg Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    will someone please say what the hell TMNT means before i smash my fist through the screen.

    z
     
  12. AlltoEasy

    AlltoEasy Well-Known Member

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    teenage mutant ninja turtles
     
  13. zorg

    zorg Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    oh f.f.s. :cry
     
  14. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    Someone needs to send some pics of version 1 to D.S. stat.......
     
  15. SPDOmegaRanger

    SPDOmegaRanger Well-Known Member

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    whats D.S ?
     
  16. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    ive got a pic at home of some production guy wearin the helmet next to a super shredder costume...ill post it later tonight if i can find it.
     
  17. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    :eek

    Um...That would be awesome.

    Will be waiting intently...

    Ryan
     
  18. OldKen

    OldKen Master Member

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    DS this should be easy for you guys, and the first TMNT movie version would be the most simple in design, and the coolest looking as well, cant wait to see what you guys come up with.

    although a real world metal cartoon version would be even better IMHO.

    :D
     
  19. Darkknight0667

    Darkknight0667 Sr Member

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    Shorthand for Durasteel.
     
  20. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    I'm pretty sure having a hand chopped-off is punishment for saying that in some countries.

    My vote also goes for the first-film style helmet/mask combo. Thanks to a killer "walk-around-Shredder" steadicam shot in the film, there shouldn't be ANY problem with decent reference for helmet shape. Here's the lone TMNT 1 Shredder screen-cap on my computer, for those of you curious...

    What would be the best way of going about this? Fiberglass or plastic helmet with chain male? All steel helmet? Molded resin/vac. formed plastic or some metal for the "blade" and mask?
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Too Much Garlic

    Too Much Garlic Master Member

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    The "helmet" part looks like it was made of reeds or bamboo sticks woven together, like a done on some types of baskets, if you know what I mean, with the metal crown spikes attached on top. Looking forward to seeing how this will be tackled.
     
  22. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    found em. this isnt the first movie helmet though... er...it is but its super shredder..i dont remember.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    i'm pretty sure the helmet was metal... or meant to look metal in the film, anyway. it has a very metallic sheen to it in several scenes.
     
  24. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    OH MY GOD..

    You have just made my day, sir. Perhaps even my whole week. THANK YOU for posting that pic.

    As far as the metal content of Shred's helmet, I always thought the helmet itself was some kind of other material, whereas everything ON IT was metal. IE: Blades, mask, and the little "bars" in the middle that run across the surface of the helm.

    You remember in the ending scenes of the first film, he pulls off his mask to reveal his scratched-up face. In this scene, you can see his helmet expand and contract with the removal of the mask...If his entire helmet was made of metal at a thickness like that, I'd think it would have stayed much more solid during the "reveal" sequence.

    Plus, I opt for a "part metal, part resin" helmet/mask combo to help keep costs down...I want to be able to actually *afford* one of these things if they're released. ;)

    Ryan
     
  25. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    yeah, there was def. some flex to it. personally, i thought it was covered in some sort of chain-male, but i'm not entirely sure. i've never really examined it closely. i have a few acquaintances who might know, or can possibly get the info... RESEARCH TIME. :)

    ...and yeah, as long as it was accurate, resin/metal or f.glass/metal would suit me JUST fine. :)
     
  26. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well that whole piece could definetly be sculpted and cast, and then the forehead and around forehead piece and mask separatly all in fiberglass.
     
  27. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Honestly if there are articulating parts, metal is the way to go....or a hybrid.

    I had the same problem with my nazul gauntlets...fiberglass and vac-plastic sounded great but either the flexibility or the rubbing/grinding (and grinding and grinding ---sorry got my hip hop on for a second) wore out the parts a lot. Metal was and is the best material thus for for some things...

    The dome could be fiberglass....the tail could be metal.

    I can do both.

    Seems to be quite a variation in the helmets.....so maybe he owns several versions....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]




    I am going to start with the cartoon version made in steel and make others designs according to specific version, novels, sources etc.
     
  28. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    well i think we're only talking the movie one here :p Half those imagesa arent working anyways
     
  29. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Yeah thats weird...they worked in my preview mode.

    Seems like a mixed bag....Ill do several versions.
     
  30. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    hmmmm, I would much rather see the movie versions made first... :unsure
     
  31. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    ditto ;)
     
  32. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    er,...um....Whatever comes after "ditto"...

    Maybe "Threepio"? :lol

    Ryan
     
  33. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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  34. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    So this is movie 1 ?

    [​IMG]

    and this is movie 2 ?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The "weave" which has been mentioned appears to be suggestive of asian chain mail, which differed from standard European "4 through 1" chain mail (four links through each link...repeating...each link had four in it regardless) in that Asian mail...er, largely Chinese and Japanese utilized many more links and/or double layers.

    Now I cant say for certain what that material is on the movie helmet as the top of the helmet definately has the tell tale clues for mail, ie, the upside down U shapes in a pattern looking like embedded rings.....but the edge betrays its likelyhood of being actual mail....unless as I suspect, its lined with a material that creates a leading edge. (trust me, chain mail hurts when your smacked and it digs into soft flesh ;)

    Being involved in multi period historical reenactments (celtic to ECW), document's, and some film project requring armor, Ive seen lots of different materials used to represent chain mail....from rope patterns to cut-up woven rugs....to the plastic rings in LOTR.

    This is vaguely the type of mail it appears as though they are suggesting on Shredders helmet:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    having said that....I have woven all sorts of mail...but its time consuming.

    I have four or five contacts and friends who weave mail with frightening speed and are very reasonable that could make the shroud/domes for these helmets....
     
  35. Egon Spengler

    Egon Spengler Sr Member

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    -Blink- The first movie didn't have the saw blade look.
     
  36. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    DS-you have the pics mixed-up... TMNT 1 Shredder wears red... TMNT 2 Shredder wears purple. :) ...much easier than explaining the differences in the helmets, haha. the TMNT 1-style seems to be more popular among fans...

    with the mail, would there be some sort of "base helmet", or would the mail just hang off of the head? it seems in the film, there is something under the mail, giving it support. you have to excuse my lack of knowledge in the world of chain mail, haha...
     
  37. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    its the pic in the last post on the first page. Looking at it, it really just looks like something sculpted to look like mail or bamboo to me... you can see gaps between the designs where its flat. Just looks sculpted to me.
     
  38. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    ah, okay....thanks.




    so what is the favorite:



    the VENUS FLY TRAP HELMET VERSION

    or the

    DARTH VADER WANNABE with DUST MASK VERSION
     
  39. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    Good observation.

    Okay, tightly woven mail in an asian pattern ....is VERY firm. Very rigid.

    But indeed some of it was also sewn down to a base...a leather, wood or metal base.


    Im not trying to get off track from the actual prop and the analities involved in recreating it, rather to elucidate the presumed intent of what they were trying to suggest.....or what could very well be.


    Now as for bamboo grass yeah that was sometimes woven into armor and could be laquered, however my sense is that they were trying to go for a round link look
     
  40. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    This is definately open to discussion.....could it be a woven "grass" (bamboo is technically a grass I believe) or an asian style chain mail weave?

    I like the idea of both actually.

    Grass weave is suggested by the longer loops....but this could just be rope too...some ropes weaves are used to simulate chain mail. If laquered, the weave would be shiny like metal. A support base or plate could be used to hold the weave flat, immobile.

    Metal chain mail, suggested by the shine and repetitive pattern of the loops and similarities to asian chain mail. Rigid mail is hard to move.....and some was still supported by a flat base.


    [​IMG]



    Ultimately....WE NEED MORE PICS....SCREEN CAPS....
     
  41. d_osborn

    d_osborn Sr Member

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    i'll do some digging over the next week. i'm sure i have several old magazines with potentially good reference... i know of at least one collector with some TMNT 1 shoulder armor, which i THINK has the same surface material as the helmet.

    if no one else posts screen caps, i'll go through the film and nab as many good frames as i see....
     
  42. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    that sound helpful, yeah see what you can come up with.
     
  43. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    Okay, here are a couple of my best helmet detail caps...

    Ryan
     
  44. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    Well, I've been examining a few pictures of mine since I made my last post here.

    I am starting to think that, instead of chain mail, what we are ACTUALLY seeing is layer upon layer of some notched material over the entire surface of the helmet...Kinda like the outside walls of a house would have those ...board things that are angled outward.

    Whether it's an add-on or sculpted in, I can't say. I drew out a picture of what I think I see...Let me know what you guys think:

    Ryan
     
  45. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    I think its suggestive of mail....as seen on various effigial sculptures:

    [​IMG]



    Or he could be


    "King of the wicker people"
     
  46. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    :lol But seriously, I doubt it's wicker OR a weave...

    I stand by my previous statement. I think the "gaps" in the detail are too far apart - and WAY too straight-edged - to be chainmail. Plus, I don't see rings in those images. If it was chainmail, we would be able to see rings around the back edge of the helmet. Instead, I see a flat pattern that cuts off in an abrupt line at the edge of the helm. I think the way the light plays off of the surface makes it harder to tell it's that simplistic, though.

    C'mon, people. Let's get some EXTREMELY high-res pictures up in here. I know some of you can cap stuff...

    EDIT: Another reason it couldn't be chain mail, is that the "pattern" becomes more widely-spaced as it goes down toward the edges of the helm...Chain mail usually stays entirely uniform and evenly spaced.

    Ryan
     
  47. Durasteel Corporation

    Durasteel Corporation Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Its not chain mail...but I think its suggestive of it.

    His helmet would be a nice lawn chair/prop in the summer time if it were a wicker wannabe.
     
  48. Kylash

    Kylash Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    can we say sculptin time? :D
     
  49. allosaur176

    allosaur176 Sr Member

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    if that was actually made from chainmail, wouldn't that sucker be pretty heavy to wear on your head???
     
  50. The Death Curse

    The Death Curse Well-Known Member

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    Hell, if any part of that helmet was metal - ESPECIALLY the blades - it would be fantastically heavy to wear. You can see in those pics that whatever that helmet blade is made of, it's certainly not a hollow "casting" or "shaped plate"...It's solid all the way around. I'd be more apt to think of that thing as a solid resin casting that was sanded extremely smooth, then painted "metal" moreso than a real, heavy, metal attachment...Especially since they had Henson Studios doing the costuming for the film. Those people are absolute geniuses when it comes to costumes.

    Hmm...Come to think of it, Shredder wasn't very apt to making quick, jerky head motions in TMNT I or II....So that helmet must've been a real pain to wear, regardless.

    Ryan
     

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