What was your image of Anakin Skywalker before the prequels were made? His arc, look, relationships

What prequel eu existef in the 90s? When books were greenlighted they couldnt use the pre anh time line, only post rotj. The only exception i recall was zahn being able to do a chapter to give a small backstory to joruus cbaoth. That and stuff about luke and leias mom being strong in 'the current' i thinknit was called. That mau have change when the switched publishers and started the new hpjedi order stuff, i dont know but i didnt read that
 
What prequel eu existef in the 90s? When books were greenlighted they couldnt use the pre anh time line, only post rotj. The only exception i recall was zahn being able to do a chapter to give a small backstory to joruus cbaoth. That and stuff about luke and leias mom being strong in 'the current' i thinknit was called. That mau have change when the switched publishers and started the new hpjedi order stuff, i dont know but i didnt read that

Exactly. There wasn’t really anything for that era. They were allowed to do Tales of the Jedi comic books (Sith Wars and Exar Kun time periods), but there wasn’t much else for before the original trilogy.
 
While that is true, I think the question was more directed at the idea of what would the Prequels have looked like had they been made in the 90's given the type of stories coming out of the EU (even if those didn't delve into the story prior to ANH) who would have been cast, etc. One thing that's fascinating about this idea for me is to imagine what the production design would have looked like. The look of the OT had certain aesthetic choices made and the Prequel films from the early 2000's had certain design choices, and as timeless as these saga films are, no film can entirely escape the era in which it was made.

Plus thinking back on which actors were popular at the time, which actors were still coming up in the business, which directors were hot, all those myriad of factors would have produced interesting results. Then you consider the effects. The early 90's were still in the analog age and digital effects were fairly rudimentary by comparison to the ones achieved at the end of the decade. Just looking at the OT and PT now you can see one is clearly set in the analog age, the other in the digital age, and it's two different worlds of film making.

Now, everything is achievable effects wise if given a sizeable budget and resources. It would have been really interesting to see what would have been accomplished in that small window between the analog and the digital. I've long daydreamed about the concept that if I made a film from my novel, it would be an interesting choice to design it to look and feel like it was shot in a different decade than this one, embueing it with certain aesthetic sensibilities, choosing to limit or exploit trappings from another era into a modern movie. I think that would be really fascinating. Like if you were to make a fantasy story, but make it look like it was written and filmed as a 1980's sword and scorcery movie with the type of budget that would have been available back then, and using effects that would have been authentic to the period. That would be super cool.
 
What if the Star Wars prequels were made in the 90s and were based on the Pre-PT EU? Who would you cast? How different Anakin would have been?
I've gotten the impression that Anakin was supposed to have fallen during the Clone Wars or perhaps just after. But the transition of the Republic to the Empire doesn't coincidence with the Jedi's destruction. I believe they serve the Empire for awhile.

The wars (plural) seem to be a number of conflicts with cloners unleashing mad clones to attack the Republic.
 
In my imagined redux of the OT, there are some added SFX shots but they are using 1970s/80s techniques.

Luke's landspeeder, for example. It could have looked better in 1977 if there had been more time/money for it. I'm picturing some hi-speed desert long shots being done with a medium-size miniature (like 5 feet long) hung on thin wires. In the late-70s Superman movies they figured out how to hide the wires (holding up Christopher Reeve) by vibrating them while the cameras were rolling. Even the "vaseline blob" hand-animated shot in Mos Eisley could have looked better with more man-hours of effort, or maybe some matte painting work & compositing.


Same for the Yavin battle. The ESB and ROTJ space battles look a lot better, and that's using basically the same miniatures & opticals from ANH + a few more years of experience.

And the infamous Vader/Obi-Wan duel. I wouldn't make a prequel-type dueling scene out of it, but I would wanna bring it up to the level of ESB/ROTJ.
 
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What was your image of Anakin Skywalker before the prequels were made? His arc, look, relationships. When I try to imagine an alternative "OT Accurate" Young Vader I imagine him as something of a Michael Corleone or Jacen Solo, though I saw somewhere that Lucas wanted a space James Dean. I can see him looking perhaps like someone with the profile of Keanu Reeves or how Bruce Wayne is usually drawn.
 
What was your image of Anakin Skywalker before the prequels were made? His arc, look, relationships. When I try to imagine an alternative "OT Accurate" Young Vader I imagine him as something of a Michael Corleone or Jacen Solo, though I saw somewhere that Lucas wanted a space James Dean. I can see him looking perhaps like someone with the profile of Keanu Reeves or how Bruce Wayne is usually drawn.
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I pictured more of an adult man who was always a bit ego-driven and prone to authoritarian tendencies.

Basically, the prequel Anakin wasn't specifically wrong (to me) but he's too young. I pictured him falling to evil more gradually and getting farther into adulthood before the scuba mask went on.

I thought George's Anakin ended up being a notch too sympathetic & vulnerable.


The whole Vader/Anakin arc is a tough one to sell. George was really swinging for the fences with it. In real life redeemable people just don't turn into characters like Vader. They don't start off quite that decent and end up quite that evil.

I think George got away with it because of the magic element of the Force. Anakin was born into a destiny larger than himself. He was partially "put under an evil spell" by the dark side during his Vader years. He didn't seem to have 100% free will in the matter. Anakin had the necessary traits for the dark side to get its claws into him (and not everyone does). But after a certain point the dark side was gravitationally pulling the guy harder towards evil than what a normal human person deals with. It's the price of the extra power that the dark side offers.
 
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Burly, charasmatic, natural leader, smart, effusive and energetic, impossible to manipulate, never whiny, not even as a child. Not that we should have ever seen him as one.
 
I'd rather not know. Not everything needs a back story.

I disagree.


Han Solo?
Lando?
Boba Fett?
Jabba?
They didn't particularly need backstories.


But . . . Vader & Obi-Wan?
Palpatine?
The fall of the Republic?
The birth of the rebellion?

IMO the prequels were called for. Even in George's early ANH drafts there were always pivotal events taking place before it. We may be disappointed with how the pequels went, but that's a different issue. The OT qualified for a backstory if any movie series ever did.

Without a prequel story, without the familiar #4-6 episode numbering, the whole thing hits differently. Vader's redemption at the end of ROTJ feels like an odd left turn at the end of the story. Like something sort of tacked-on. But it's NOT tacked-on. When George wrote ANH he carved out that future option. During ESB there is clearly groundwork being laid for the redemption.
 
I pictured more of an adult man who was always a bit ego-driven and prone to authoritarian tendencies.

Basically, the prequel Anakin wasn't specifically wrong (to me) but he's too young. I pictured him falling to evil more gradually and getting farther into adulthood before the scuba mask went on.

I thought George's Anakin ended up being a notch too sympathetic & vulnerable.


The whole Vader/Anakin arc is a tough one to sell. George was really swinging for the fences with it. In real life redeemable people just don't turn into characters like Vader. They don't start off quite that decent and end up quite that evil.

I think George got away with it because of the magic element of the Force. Anakin was born into a destiny larger than himself. He was partially "put under an evil spell" by the dark side during his Vader years. He didn't seem to have 100% free will in the matter. Anakin had the necessary traits for the dark side to get its claws into him (and not everyone does). But after a certain point the dark side was gravitationally pulling the guy harder towards evil than what a normal human person deals with. It's the price of the extra power that the dark side offers.

Once I saw that he sported a mullet, I knew that Anakin was manifesting the Dark Side and was capable of unspeakable evil.

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This roughly corresponds with how I had pictured a “Young Darth Vader”, prior to the release of the prequels:

IMG_1734.jpeg
 
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Again, do they NOT have experienced writers? I know we talk about ridiculous exposition in TV shows or films, but here is one instance where a little explanation (and less JJ mystery box) would have gone a long way.

Have TROS Palpatine be the "real" Palpatine all along, perhaps for CENTURIES and hiding on Exogol, with Force sensitive clone(s) of himself to act as his emissaries. So that he could be in more than one place at a time (but Exogol Palpatine was ALWAYS in control), this would at least make some sense. To the Empire, they would not be aware of the "clones" so it would appear that Palpatine could show up anywhere, at any time and it would extend the fear of him and his power. The SW universe had already introduced the Clone Wars, so cloning was already a "thing." It's OK to explain something like that to the audience: "You know The Emperor in TESB and ROTJ? Well, he was just a shadow of the REAL Emperor, whom you've never seen until now." Not elegant, but at least it would help to bridge the "somehow" gap.

The ONLY reason that Snoke became a deformed genetic experiment that could not contain all of Palpatine's power was because RJ had backed them into a corner with Snoke's death... but LFL KNEW THIS during TLJ production!

Ryan: So, Kylo kills Snoke.

KK: No, he doesn't.

Ryan: But... but we need the Sith-like "twist" where Snoke thinks Kylo is about to strike Rey, but then he...

KK: No, Ryan. Nope. We are not killing Snoke yet in the 2nd ST film. We already let you have old-man Luke. Go figure out something else.

Ryan: (sobbing quietly) OK, ok...
Alternatively, they could've gone with the direction I thought Rian was headed, which is to have Ben be fighting with others within the First Order (Hux, maybe other Knights of Ren), because they disagree with Ben's leadership or just because evil triumphant eventually turns on itself. Meanwhile, the rebellion builds back up, in secret, and maybe Rey starts to work with (I hesitate to call it "training" in the sense of acting like a Master to them, as much as a fellow student with a little more experience) a new group of Jedi who can challenge the Knights of Ren. And the third film ends maybe with them securing a victory, while the First Order defeats Ben and kicks him out, presuming him dead.

That sets up the next trilogy, where Ben is the anti-hero on a redemption arc, while the New Rebellion builds more strength and takes on bigger targets, culminating in the overthrow of the First Order at the end of that trilogy, and then we PLEASE LEAVE THE SKYWALKERS BEHIND ALREADY AND MOVE THE HELL ON with any future films being set several generations after to the point where everyone in the PT, OT, and ST are mere legends.
 
First of all, I never Invisioned the Jedi as celibate monks. I figured they would have looked at actors that resembled Shaw when he was younger. Anakin would have fallen perhaps in episode 2 and Yoda/Obi-Wan would have faked Padme's death and hid her on Alderan.. she'd would have become Leias "Nany"..
 
I always remembered reading bits of what Anakin was supposed to be, before the prequels came out. If I were to compare my image of him to an actor, I'd say he would be more like Michael Fassbender as he portrayed Magneto in the X-Men: First Class films, a character that has redeeming qualities but is motivated by revenge and a willingness to kill for what he desires.

Here's some research I did a while back that I had sitting in a notepad on my phone, pulled from various sources online. It's all descriptions of what the Star Wars backstory was originally conceived to be or was expanded on in the EU novels, including Anakin/Vader before Star Wars (or Ep IV, A New Hope to you younglings):
Before TPM the common assumption in both the fandom and in the few EU sources that touched on the subject (though the PT era itself was off-limits by decree of Lucas for a long time) was something like this:

The Clone Wars were a series of conflicts that occurred about 35 years before ANH.The Clones were the bad guys and also mentally unstable because of being grown too fast. One of the villains creating the Clones was a warlord named Atha Prime (who did eventually sorta make into Legends as a genetic terrorist).

Other bad guys of the period included a bunch of Dark Jedi from Bpfassh.The Clone Wars left the Republic on the verge of collapse, which Palpatine exploited to become President and then Emperor; this process took several years.\Obi-Wan was trained by Yoda; one day he met Anakin and took it upon himself to train him. But before Anakin's training was completed, they had a falling out which led to them fighting and Anakin falling into a molten pit.

Luke and Leia's mother might have been a Fallanassi Adept who abandoned her people's pacifism to fight with the Jedi for the Republic, during the course of which, she met, fell in love with, and married Anakin. She died of unknown causes when Leia was young, but still old enough to have some memory of her.The Jedi allowed families and had no fixed facilities, but instead flew around in mobile academies like the Chu'unthor.

Palpatine, through means unknown, betrayed and wiped out the Jedi as part of his ascension to Emperor.The Empire was established at some point AFTER the Ghorman Massacre, by which point the three founders of the Rebel Alliance were already plotting the rebellion.

"Obi-Wan made one last try to save Anakin from the dark side, but Anakin drew his Jedi weapon-the lightsaber, with its blade of pure energy. Obi-Wan reluctantly raised his own lightsaber in defense, and the two battled near a pit of molten lava. During the fight, Skywalker fell into the molten pit. But Anakin Skywalker did not die. He emerged from the pit a scorched shell of a man, full of hatred. In that dark moment, Anakin was transformed."

Obi-Wan: "When I first encountered your father, he was already a great pilot. But what amazed me was how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train Anakin in the ways of the Jedi. My mistake was thinking I could be as good a teacher as Yoda. I was not. Such was my foolish pride. The Emperor sensed Anakin's power, and he lured him to the dark side. My pride had terrible consequences for the galaxy."

Luke: "There is still good in him."

Obi-Wan: "I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine, now, than man -- twisted, and evil."

Luke: "I can't kill my own father."

Obi-Wan: "You should not think of that machine as your father. When I saw what had become of him, I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought. Your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever -- he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anakin Skywalker. Irredeemably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will. [...] When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine...and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan."

- Return of the Jedi novelization.

In an interview in Starlog in 1980, Mark Hamill recounts a background story which he had been told: "I remember very early on asking who my parents were and being told that my father and Obi Wan met Vader on the edge of a volcano and they had a duel. My father and Darth Vader fell into the crater and my father was instantly killed. Vader crawled out horribly scarred, and at that point the Emperor landed and Obi Wan ran into the forest, never to be seen again."
 
Not just celibate monks….strange celibate monks...

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I also didn’t picture them wearing Uncle Owen’s and Ben Kenobi’s Tatooine desert robes as some sort of “Jedi Uniform”.

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Yeah, apparently during ROTJ costume fittings, George told Mark that the black outfit was basically the "true" uniform of the Jedi. Then, of course, he changed his mind. In fact, I think there might be video of that incident. I'll have to go look.

Personally, I'm glad that the Clone Wars took the steps to show the Jedi in some kind of quasi-clonetrooper armor. At least that visually distinguishes them from the "Hey, we're all moisture farmers!" look that the rest of the PT imposed. I gather from the early concept art that the black uniform was considered early in the process. If I had to guess, I'd bet that George scuttled it based on a "But bad guys wear black, so we can't do that" sense of things.
 

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