Vader MPP lightsabers details and specifications

[roygilsing]

Well, for example, on my real MPP part there is a recess on the inside at the location of the thumb screw hole.

And you can't fit a reflector on my replica version because the pin holes are slightly smaller. (Of course these could be drilled to make them fit)

 

[roygilsing]

This is one of my aluminium replicas from 2015

 

[IronDestinyProps]

roygilsing , don't most vintage one steps show a very tiny bit of the flashgun (like the ANH V1) at the lowest part of the shroud "swoop"? I see your aluminum shroud does not reveal a tiny bit of the flashgun at the bottom opening of the shroud. Could that "inaccuracy" be categorized as a tell?

 

[roygilsing]

Maybe, but I'm not sure: they were probably manually machined and this could be explained by natural occurring variations.

 

[PrinceZip]

Well, for example, on my real MPP part there is a recess on the inside at the location of the thumb screw hole.

And you can't fit a reflector on my replica version because the pin holes are slightly smaller. (Of course these could be drilled to make them fit)

I can tell you that on vintage 2-step shrouds there is a recess, and on vintage single-step shrouds, there is no recess.

So, technically, the lack of inside recess on your replica is not a tell, but an accurate feature.

I believe this reaffirms the lack of tells like I've been saying.

For these reasons, I think there should be more clear tells.

 

[roygilsing]

I can tell you that on vintage 2-step shrouds there is a recess, and on vintage single-step shrouds, there is no recess.

So, technically, the lack of inside recess on your replica is not a tell, but an accurate feature.

I believe this reaffirms the lack of tells like I've been saying.

For these reasons, I think there should be more clear tells.

Oh Thanks.
I will consider it then. Do you have a suggestion? An engraving on the inside perhaps?

 

[PrinceZip]

Oh Thanks.
I will consider it then. Do you have a suggestion? An engraving on the inside perhaps?

Thank you for considering!
I think 3 tells will work without sacrificing accuracy.

1. a deep engraving on the inside (deep enough so it can't be sanded away)
2. a recessed area inside the thumbscrew hole (like the 2-step shrouds) will make a clear tell
3. larger side holes for reflectors (larger than vintages, so it can't be drilled to make the right size)

 

[Foe Hammer]

Making the holes larger would be sacrificing accuracy. In my opinion an internal engraving would be sufficient.

 

[PrinceZip]

Making the holes larger would be sacrificing accuracy. In my opinion an internal engraving would be sufficient.

I disagree; only having an internal engraving isn't enough as it can be sanded away or filled in.
This is why multiple tells need to be included to ensure clear difference between replicas vs. authentic pieces.

If you want the perfect accuracy, you should look for a real vintage piece.

 

[IronDestinyProps]

Oh Thanks.
I will consider it then. Do you have a suggestion? An engraving on the inside perhaps?

Yes, an engraving that clearly has your full logo or at least "WW."

Making the holes larger would be sacrificing accuracy. In my opinion an internal engraving would be sufficient.

I agree.

I disagree; only having an internal engraving isn't enough as it can be sanded away or filled in.
This is why multiple tells need to be included to ensure clear difference between replicas vs. authentic pieces.

If you want the perfect accuracy, you should look for a real vintage piece.

If the engraving is done deeply enough, that would be acceptable in my mind.

 

[Foe Hammer]

I disagree; only having an internal engraving isn't enough as it can be sanded away or filled in.
This is why multiple tells need to be included to ensure clear difference between replicas vs. authentic pieces.

If you want the perfect accuracy, you should look for a real vintage piece.

No disrespect intended. I just feel this is a bit overkill. There is no need to sacrifice accuracy for tells or hallmarks. They can be achieved while maintaining accuracy. This can, and has, been done. At the end of the day you still have to do your homework before spending 'vintage money' on anything.

 

[PrinceZip]

I believe some kind of external tells need to be included, like the larger holes.
If you see MPP listings for sale, people don't usually post pictures of the inside.
External tells like the larger holes will ensure people know it's a replica without looking inside.

No disrespect intended. I just feel this is a bit overkill. There is no need to sacrifice accuracy for tells or hallmarks. They can be achieved while maintaining accuracy. This can, and has, been done. At the end of the day you still have to do your homework before spending 'vintage money' on anything.

We have also seen people paying vintage money on replica pieces (myself included in the early days)
I get people want the perfect 1:1 replica without any tells.
But, this is quite disrespectful to those looking for authentic pieces as well as current owners of vintage shrouds.

Again, if people want the perfectly accurate shroud, people should be going for authentic shrouds manufactured by the original M.P.P. factory.

 

[Foe Hammer]

I believe some kind of external tells need to be included, like the larger holes.
If you see MPP listings for sale, people don't usually post pictures of the inside.
External tells like the larger holes will ensure people know it's a replica without looking inside.



We have also seen people paying vintage money on replica pieces (myself included in the early days)
I get people want the perfect 1:1 replica without any tells.
But, this is quite disrespectful to those looking for authentic pieces as well as current owners of vintage shrouds.

Again, if people want the perfectly accurate shroud, people should be going for authentic shrouds manufactured by the original M.P.P. factory.

It's not disrespectful at all. There are clearly two different groups of collectors/hobbyists here that can coexist. Just because a seller doesn't post pics of the inside doesn't mean you can't ask them to. If they refuse then odds are its not legit.

 

[PrinceZip]

It's not disrespectful at all. There are clearly two different groups of collectors/hobbyists here that can coexist. Just because a seller doesn't post pics of the inside doesn't mean you can't ask them to. If they refuse then odds are its not legit.

Let's theoretically say, there's only one tell- inside engraving.

What if someone decides to remove the engraving by sanding it or filling it up?
Now, the replica is indistinguishable from the real deal.

This will cause many issues for the two groups.

 

[Foe Hammer]

Let's theoretically say, there's only one tell- inside engraving.

What if someone decides to remove the engraving by sanding it or filling it up?
Now, the replica is indistinguishable from the real deal.

This will cause many issues for the two groups.

Either method would leave some sort of visible identifier. Be thorough, and if there is any doubt, err on the side of caution. I understand your concerns, I have both replicas and vintage items in my collection. Both can be accurate without impinging on the other.

 

[Bradberry00]

Would larger holes really be identifiable in a photo? likely only if they were considerably larger, and that may defeat the purpose of making an accurate replica in the first place. I think DEEP internal identifiers would be the way to go.

 

[andyroo]

I believe some kind of external tells need to be included, like the larger holes.
If you see MPP listings for sale, people don't usually post pictures of the inside.
External tells like the larger holes will ensure people know it's a replica without looking inside.



We have also seen people paying vintage money on replica pieces (myself included in the early days)
I get people want the perfect 1:1 replica without any tells.
But, this is quite disrespectful to those looking for authentic pieces as well as current owners of vintage shrouds.

Again, if people want the perfectly accurate shroud, people should be going for authentic shrouds manufactured by the original M.P.P. factory.

We need to be reasonable here. Many can't afford the 2k price tag that comes with an original piece that's if you're even lucky enough to find one.

I'm sure there are many unscrupulous souls in the world willing to sell a copy as an original that's why buyer caution is recommend, however I feel if someone is willing to make a highly accurate replica it is unfair to all in the community to prohibit it.

I think an engraving will do the trick.

 

[Serenity]

The whole point of replicating something is to do it as accurately as possible. Add an internal engraving or stamping if you want, but once you start changing dimensions or external details, it's no different than just putting a Heiland shroud on it. It'll be close but not accurate.

Plus, if Roy doesn't don't do it accurately without external changes, someone else will eventually. Might as well do it correctly now.

 

[PrinceZip]

Once the inside engraving is filled up or sanded away, all the mess can be covered up with paint. Then, the replica will be truly indistinguishable from the original.

I've seen many manufacturers putting clear tells outside and inside on Graflexs. I'm not sure why that shouldn't apply to MPP parts, especially coveted part like the shroud.

I get people want perfect replicas of MPP because they are rare, but I don't think we should be biased and suddenly create indistinguishable replicas of MPPs.

In addition to a deep engraving, I suggest putting a recessed area around the thumbscrew hole on the inside just to be 100% sure

Another good exterior tell can be pre drilled Dring holes

 

[Bradberry00]

Kevin, you may know this more than me as you have a couple 1 step shrouds, but isn't the area that touches the flash tube body unpainted on MPP shrouds? If it was filled and painted, that would be a tell that something is fishy anyway, right? I do agree a tell needs to exist, but I feel a hidden one would be sufficient.