Vader cheek mark (c-scar)

[Art Andrews]

I'll grant you this GINO you certainly have a way of taking a fact and skewing it to suit your needs.
The fact that details on the TM were filled with added material isn't something new that people have just come up with, that has been what was said right from the beginning as well you know but you make it sound like someone has just now made this up like they're clutching at straws.

Nothing is being skewed about the fact that the TM supporters were unanimously all on the "you don't see the c-scar because the images are photoshopped" without ONE of these knowledgeable individuals mentioning the filled in areas until vadermania dropped the bombshell that the photos weren't photoshopped. Only then did the story change, which did make it appear that they were grasping for straws. If, as you say, this was known all along, the TM crowd did a great disservice to their own credibility by not mentioning it until after their excuse about the photoshopped images had been shattered. For such clever individuals, this seems like a pretty big mistake.

Please feel free to quote statements "right from the beginning" where TM owners admit the c-scar was covered with black resin which was later flaked away as you would be doing them a great favor in helping substantiate their new stance and your claim that this isn't something new, born only from the desire to find another answer when the photoshopping rug was pulled out from under their feet.

 

[Darth Niob]

Strange. I thought exactly the same about you Den's.

Silly comment. Many of the "Dens" were/are on the RPF also.....most of them way longer than on the Den. Instead of the RPF the Den is more specified on Vader so its not a surprise many of the Vader freaks are members there. As Gino, Doug and others also before they were banned because of bashing, trolling etc.
Hector is also still a member:rolleyes

 

[vaderdarth]

Wow, Qui I said almost exactly the same thing yesterday. So I genuinely sympathize how you feel. I also agree with all points you have made in your post. It's not easy to take just take someone's word. But do be open to it until you are satisfied proof has been shown. Honestly short of me holding the screen helmet it my hands, I have tiny doubts about this detail and that detail and I always will. But I'm pretty satisfied with most of these larger issues. But that's me. I don't expect everyone to have that same sense of satisfaction. As individuals, we all arrive at our conclusions along an individual path, not one laid out by everyone else.

 

[JediCarl]

I don't see how a screen capture will prove whether the c-scar is dimensional or topical. If anything, it will just add to the debate, because it could be seen either way. It won't solve a thing. Only pics of the original molds can provide any weighted evidence.

 

[KaanE]

Silly comment. Many of the "Dens" were/are on the RPF also.....most of them way longer than on the Den.

No one said otherwise. I'm also a member of the Den but I cannot call myself an active member at there.

Instead of the RPF the Den is more specified on Vader so its not a surprise many of the Vader freaks are members there.

Again, no one said otherwise.

 

[Darth Niob]

No one said otherwise. I'm also a member of the Den but I cannot call myself an active member at there.



Again, no one said otherwise.

So why this comment? Its doesnt help to get this things cleared. Without such comments it wouldnt be that harsh sometimes and the threads wouldnt be half that long....it simply doesnt help.

Its a discussion between Vader geeks and not between the Den, the RPF, the specific helmet owners.

 

[Dark-Side]

Someone could be explane me the process to remove a layer of resin without damaging the resin which is under?

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

According to what Jesper told vadermania, he used a fingernail and a toothpick.

Art, Too Much Garlic is the ONLY person to have said the TM photo was the first stage of stripping. Without proof though, it would appear to be the ONLY stage of stripping.

 

[KaanE]

According to what Jesper told vadermania, he used a fingernail and a toothpick.

If that's true and the black thingy is resin, that's is impossible, you need to use a flat screwdriver at least to remove it and, of course, you will damage the surface. If he used the fingernail it was not resin.

 

[KaanE]

So why this comment? Its doesnt help to get this things cleared. Without such comments it wouldnt be that harsh sometimes and the threads wouldnt be half that long....it simply doesnt help.

Its a discussion between Vader geeks and not between the Den, the RPF, the specific helmet owners.

You're correct, I'm sorry.

 

[defstartrooper]

Nothing is being skewed about the fact that the TM supporters were unanimously all on the "you don't see the c-scar because the images are photoshopped" without ONE of these knowledgeable individuals mentioning the filled in areas until vadermania dropped the bombshell that the photos weren't photoshopped. Only then did the story change, which did make it appear that they were grasping for straws. If, as you say, this was known all along, the TM crowd did a great disservice to their own credibility by not mentioning it until after their excuse about the photoshopped images had been shattered. For such clever individuals, this seems like a pretty big mistake.

Please feel free to quote statements "right from the beginning" where TM owners admit the c-scar was covered with black resin which was later flaked away as you would be doing them a great favor in helping substantiate their new stance and your claim that this isn't something new, born only from the desire to find another answer when the photoshopping rug was pulled out from under their feet.

I know you aren't a Vader nut Art but it was always said that there was filler material and when i say from the start i mean from the start when the TM was stripped we're going back years here.
Jorg was the one who said the photo was photoshopped not the TM supporters unanimously saying so as you state, an honest enough mistake given that TM photos were posted that had been shopped before.

 

[defstartrooper]

I don't see how a screen capture will prove whether the c-scar is dimensional or topical. If anything, it will just add to the debate, because it could be seen either way. It won't solve a thing. Only pics of the original molds can provide any weighted evidence.

Why would one image be proof but another not be ? that makes no sense.

 

[Darth Niob]

According to what Jesper told vadermania, he used a fingernail and a toothpick.

Art, Too Much Garlic is the ONLY person to have said the TM photo was the first stage of stripping. Without proof though, it would appear to be the ONLY stage of stripping.

I will have soon the infos from Jesper himself and maybe some pics. Dont forget ....all the restauration was done many years back. Only Jesper has all of the pics being made and since he has left the scene and nobody had any reason in the past to post pics and infos like that ....people forget. If you had seen hundreds of pics, some cleaned, some not, some here, some there and then wait 4 years after discussing this and other helmets on different forums ...you wouldnt know every detail....its just human...or not??

 

[Art Andrews]

an honest enough mistake given that TM photos were posted that had been shopped before.

A pretty big mistake considering all the people who were so adamantly stating it and hinging their argument on that point with no one saying anything about the c-scar being under black resin until the photoshop argument was debunked. Surely you can see where this would look suspect when the resin argument wasn't made or even mentioned in a thread where people were defending their belief that the c-scar was always on the TM and not added by Jesper. It doesn't make them wrong, but it certainly doesn't make their argument sound good to switch to a new argument only when the previous argument failed.

 

[JediCarl]

Why would one image be proof but another not be ? that makes no sense.

Because I know how cinematography works. Things that are topical can look dimensional, and vice versa. Screen captures from ANH won't prove anything.

On the other hand, if someone were to have an original mold of the helmet (or 1st generation pull) whether or not the scar is part of the actual mold (thus dimensional) would seal the deal. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. If it's in the mold, it's dimensional. If it's not, it's topical. Simple as that.

The Baker mold apparently has no C-scar. Some claim that the UK molds do. But we've yet to see hard evidence of that.

Beyond hard proof, all there is are words and opinions. And often opinions are based solely on blind belief and biased, selective reasoning.

We may never know.

 

[Art Andrews]

I will have soon the infos from Jesper himself and maybe some pics.

That would be awesome.:thumbsup

 

[Juansith]

Just talking about facts here, we have this:
Does any of the Helmets shown have a scar?
Yes, the TM.
Do the other Helmets have it?
The SL doesnt seem to have it on the pics shown, other helmets could have it but the paint on its original mold hasnt been stripped, but so far no scar on those, nor the eFX and the RB mold seems to have what it looks like small lines that resemble the lines next to the scar, but no, no apparent c scar.
Was the scar on the TM added by JRX?, unknown, with the lack of evidence weve got, it could indicate that it could or couldnt.

I personally think the c scar is not authentic and it was added.
Should it be important if the scar was added or not?, to me?, no, its a nicely rendered scar.
Does it lower the value of the TM if the scar was added later, to me, certainly.
This i just said is my opinion, opinions shouldnt be relevant, we wont agree on each others opinions and sure they wont bring us closer to the truth.

Do we have an original picture of the TM with paint stripped and no scar?, yes, but also we have an after pic of a cast of the TM showing a scar, thats all we have.

TM C scar, authentic or fake, you make your choice. But its there.

 

[defstartrooper]

A pretty big mistake considering all the people who were so adamantly stating it and hinging their argument on that point with no one saying anything about the c-scar being under black resin until the photoshop argument was debunked. Surely you can see where this would look suspect when the resin argument wasn't made or even mentioned in a thread where people were defending their belief that the c-scar was always on the TM and not added by Jesper. It doesn't make them wrong, but it certainly doesn't make their argument sound good to switch to a new argument only when the previous argument failed.

Well you may call it a pretty big mistake i'd call it understandable considering photoshopped images have been posted in the past where details like the cheek scar were deliberately hidden.
Is it really that difficult to believe that a photo taken some years back might have been believed to be one of those photoshopped ones ?

Again the resin isn't a new story this goes back years to when the helmet was stripped back by Jesper, GINO is well aware of that but he makes it sound like this is a new revelation just bought up now when it isn't.

By the way no baiting infraction for GINO making unsubstantiated claims against members then like the ones that have been given to those that question GINO's casts authenticity ?

 

[Al May]

A pretty big mistake considering all the people who were so adamantly stating it and hinging their argument on that point with no one saying anything about the c-scar being under black resin until the photoshop argument was debunked. Surely you can see where this would look suspect when the resin argument wasn't made or even mentioned in a thread where people were defending their belief that the c-scar was always on the TM and not added by Jesper. It doesn't make them wrong, but it certainly doesn't make their argument sound good to switch to a new argument only when the previous argument failed.

Looks like even some of the TM owners are in for some education by the only real Guy that knows, i dont suppose all the owners were in the same workshop when JRX restored this piece ,roll on the pics and info,should make alot of peoples minds uplove

 

[GINO]

I remember JRX talking about removing the paint and bondo/resin during the restoration.
But the removal of that material did not expose a c-scar.
That was added by him just because he was doing what he believed at the time made for a more accurate helmet.

It's really simple.


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