Tom Baker Sonic Screwdriver SHOCKING EVIDENCE!

[Jamanticus]

Wow- those pics have me convinced as well.

EDIT: I mean, and the logic of the thing... A sonic screwdriver made out of a real screwdriver. And the spiral stripes make sense with the spinning, as well.

But, if this is indeed based on an activator and not a screwdriver, do activators have that sort of action?

 

[SurferGeek]

snip...

The magnets are called 'button magnets' and many, many places sell them. The smallest they do are 12.5mm dia which is too big.

snip...

Looks pretty good to me, new stock, done by BoatBuilder.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Wow- those pics have me convinced as well.

EDIT: I mean, and the logic of the thing... A sonic screwdriver made out of a real screwdriver. And the spiral stripes make sense with the spinning, as well.

But, if this is indeed based on an activator and not a screwdriver, do activators have that sort of action?

i have to say these pictures leave me pretty stumped. i'm definitely going to have to double check the items we are looking into purchasing. These activators are EXPENSIVE and we would look pretty stupid if we were wrong. there are certain things on the activators that totally match the show prop - but this may mean two objects were put together - I'll definitely need to get Thunderbirds are Go and watch this scene.

 

[Wayne R.]

i have to say these pictures leave me pretty stumped. i'm definitely going to have to double check the items we are looking into purchasing. These activators are EXPENSIVE and we would look pretty stupid if we were wrong. there are certain things on the activators that totally match the show prop - but this may mean two objects were put together - I'll definitely need to get Thunderbirds are Go and watch this scene.

Been spending my insomnia looking at various push drills. It might be some obscure Brit version (as opposed to the American ones that are far more common on the net) of one of these:

It was probably a found & neat-looking item, the shows being made on a tight budget. Those activators count themselves out on cost alone.

 

[Straker]

That's what I originally thought, but it looks very much like you can see the tape edge, plus the grooves and slot have been covered which all suggests a tape like covering.

I noticed that too, it was just a question as to what sort of tape may be used for 1966. I still think it's a definite viable theory.

The one major problem I have with the origenal sonic (from TB) being a totally custom made object (as CT says is an absolute fact) as opposed to a found object of some kind is that:

1. It has the slot that you can see the spring through. Why would you machine that in and then cover it with something (tape or whatever) if it was a custom made prop just for the show. I think that is there for a reason related to the origenal use of that object.
2. Can we tell for sure if the black spiral around the neck part is tape or is a grove in the metal (like a big thread). If it is a big grove (look how exact the spacing between the black lines is) it sort of lends itself to the automatic screwdriver idea.
3. Is the stuff on the handle added or is it some kind of grip that just came on the origenal object? If you look close you can almost see a pattern like it is knurled into the handle.

I can give you a reason why you can't see the slot...because it isn't facing the camera. It's the old adage that just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. The prop maker may have thought it looked great and the director may have disagreed and won.

To me, the black spiral looks raised, and given that the spiral disappears later, if it was indeed a channel cut into the metal for the purpose of a track then it would destroy the prop to remove it. Remember, just because it acts like a push driver doesn't mean it actually has to be one. all it really needs to do is spring in and out and take what looks like a screw out of a hole. movie magic and suspension of disbelief and our own minds fill in the rest of the detail.


And the third point...thats one we still haven't figured out XD It could be a knurled pattern, a quick grind job to remove something, or even a metal grippie tape.

 

[Gojira61]

Remember, just because it acts like a push driver doesn't mean it actually has to be one. all it really needs to do is spring in and out and take what looks like a screw out of a hole. movie magic and suspension of disbelief and our own minds fill in the rest of the detail.

If you watch this scene in the "Thunderbirds are Go" film you'll see that the part with the spiral does nothing. The handle is what is doing the work, if you look at these two shots you can see the entire front collapses into the handle.

 

[Straker]

If you watch this scene in the "Thunderbirds are Go" film you'll see that the part with the spiral does nothing. The handle is what is doing the work, if you look at these two shots you can see the entire front collapses into the handle.

Well it should collapse into the handle XD That is the way the mechanics of the Sonic Screwdriver work after all. XD I just don't think it means it had to actually BE a screwdriver for this shot. The screw could have just sat in the hole, and the inside of the tool could have had a magnet to take it from the hole. Add sound FX and there's your screwdriver.


EDIT: let me put it to you another way. I can take an RB Replicas sonic screwdriver, and not only make pictures of it that look just like that, but also make a video of my using it for a screwdriver in the exact same way it was used in Thunderbirds and even pull a screw out of a hole without the use of a magnet and without ever seeing the slot on one side in a way that would make you think I just used it to unscrew a screw without it actually being used for a screwdriver. It would be easier if it were an actual screwdriver, but it doesn't have to be a screwdriver is all I'm saying.

 

[Jack T Chance]

I know I mentioned that i could be a metal weaved mesh with an adhesive back on it. I can totally believe that that may be wrapped in that AND provide the look of the freshly filed metal that it looks like. Believe me, you're not the only one that is in that unanimous line of thought now. You've converted me into a believer. :lol

Wow! I actually converted someone to my way of thinking! What was a lousy day, just got a little better!

I think it is about time for this thread to be locked since it is serving no good purpose.

That's only your OPINION and I'm sure several of us would disagree with you quite strongly! If nothing else, we've just possibly found a source of the magnets for the emitter head, AND we now have a good lead on the origins of the emitter ring (AKA "halo")! Even IF nothing pans out on the origins of the main handle portion, we've still gained valuable information about this prop, that will help make future reproductions that much more accurate! :thumbsup

If you see no value in that, well, that's your loss.

That's what I originally thought, but it looks very much like you can see the tape edge, plus the grooves and slot have been covered which all suggests a tape like covering.

Precisely.

I think we all need to take it easy :lol.

Hey man, I'll take "it" anyway I can get "it"!

Right or wrong Jet is putting some time and effort into running down his theory and at some point if we see a pic of a perfect match, well mystery solved. If not it just goes down as another lead that was never proven (we know this never happens on the RPF :lol). No big deal.

The one major problem I have with the original sonic (from TB) being a totally custom made object (as CT says is an absolute fact) as opposed to a found object of some kind is that:

1. It has the slot that you can see the spring through. Why would you machine that in and then cover it with something (tape or whatever) if it was a custom made prop just for the show. I think that is there for a reason related to the original use of that object.
2. Can we tell for sure if the black spiral around the neck part is tape or is a groove in the metal (like a big thread). If it is a big groove (look how exact the spacing between the black lines is) it sort of lends itself to the automatic screwdriver idea.
3. Is the stuff on the handle added or is it some kind of grip that just came on the original object? If you look close you can almost see a pattern like it is knurled into the handle.

My take on all of that:

1. You wouldn't. Looking at my prop replica from Russ (AKA RB Replicas) combined with the info available here and on that other forum, I'm thinking the only LOGICAL reason for that diagonally-cut slot to be there, is as a part of the original tool/gadget/widget/whatever that the prop was made from. The slot looks as though it was designed for a lever that would be turned to operate some function of the original item. By the time it became our beloved sonic screwdriver, that lever/switch/whatever seems to have been removed, but the slot remained as a permanent reminder of its presence. Just my theory, only thing that makes sense to my brain, anyway. But I could be wrong. :unsure
2. To my eyes, going by all the photos available, it looks like it's either paint, or maybe tape. Nothing more than that. Just a year or 2 after Pertwee's Doctor started using the sonic screwdriver, that shaft was just bare, silver metal, stripped of all paint, tape, etc. So whatever it was, was something removable like that. Again, that's what seems to be the case to ME, anyway, just going by the available evidence.
3. I've already explained my theory. But even if it IS the item's original grip, whatever it is was removed by the time when we get really good shots of the handgrip on Doctor Who, because by then it was the bare, smooth metal with the exposed slot.

Just my 2 cents on those subjects, for whatever it's worth.

The idea that someone would machine a part for a 2 second insert shot on Thunderbirds goes against everything in bringing a show in on the cheap. if the object had played a significant part in the show (Thunderbirds) - like say a phaser, then yes, I would believe it was completely fabricated. As we know it was taken from the Thunderbirds to Who, this is a good way to save money - salvage is key in television.

Again, in line with what I'm thinking, too. Even if the prop maker was told by the Director, Producer, or whoever to go custom build something, if he only had a small amount of funds to work with, and/or was on a tight deadline, using a found object just makes more sense. It makes a LOT more sense. Pick up a found item that works for the scene, slap some paint on it, maybe a few greeblies, and bingo bango, instant prop. He claims he made it himself, everyone's happy, the scene gets filmed, everyone goes home and goes to sleep.

Back by popular demand.

And for the love of God someone please grab these this time! I'll try not to go delete happy in the future.

I'm on it. They will be grabbed momentarily.

I lightened these a lot from the film, the scenes are pretty dark. Watch “Thunderbirds are Go”, this thing is a push/pull screwdriver, you even turn the handle to the right to eject the screw you’ve just removed.

A possible explanation for the slot? Perhaps it was part of the screw ejection mechanism? :confused

Until I see something different that's what it is in my mind. And if this was custom made just for Thunderbirds then my hat is off to the props department.

Ditto. I just wish Scoones or whoever was responsible for it had better documented its creation. Thunderbirds was a fairly popular show. Sadly, the time when this should have been researched was apparently in the mid to late '90s, when Mr. Scoones was still alive and could have provided his insights. If he's truly passed on, as C.T. heard, then it's too late now to get the story straight from "the horse's mouth".

Looks pretty good to me, new stock, done by BoatBuilder.

Is that one of the 12.5 mm ones? :confused

The magnet looks right to me... well, except for the red color!

Too bad BoatBuilder apparently has a lot of trouble actually filling the orders he takes.

Been spending my insomnia looking at various push drills. It might be some obscure Brit version (as opposed to the American ones that are far more common on the net) of one of these:

It was probably a found & neat-looking item, the shows being made on a tight budget. Those activators count themselves out on cost alone.

Yet another good point. thumbsup

Well it should collapse into the handle XD That is the way the mechanics of the Sonic Screwdriver work after all. XD I just don't think it means it had to actually BE a screwdriver for this shot. The screw could have just sat in the hole, and the inside of the tool could have had a magnet to take it from the hole. Add sound FX and there's your screwdriver.

Yep, that's true. It could have been anything. Could have been a medieval torture device, for all we know! :lol

But I doubt that's what it was. Still, no telling what it was designed to do until it can be properly IDed. :confused

 

[phez]

Ok I noticed a couple interesting things. I watched the part in "Robot" about 30 times just now where Tom Baker inserts the halo and turns the Sonic Screwdriver into the "Sonic Lance"

1. The bullet is attached (or at least slid onto) the wire/rod that holds the halo to the sonic body. It is not part of the handle as I have always thought. You can see it pretty clearly in the scene (I am trying to get a screen cap where it is clear right now. I will post it as soon as I get a good one)
2. The halo pin is about the size of a small drill bit, TB slides the wire/rod and bullet into the top and then very deliberately holds the top shaft and twists the thick part of the handle about 1/4 turn counter clockwise to lock the halo pin into place. Look at the lot in the handle and think of what would happen if there was a pin in that slot and you held the top part and turned the lower handle counter clockwise. I am wondering if on the original object you don't twist the handle clockwise to loosen ( the pin slides forward in the slot pushing a chuck forward loosening the jaws) , inset a bit of some sort, then twist it counter clockwise to tighten (the pin in the slot is pulled towards the back of the handle and pulls the jaws of a chuck back and tightens around the bit).
3. I think there is an outer grip handle and an end cap on the prop in that scene from thunder-birds that is gone by the time we get a good look at it in DrWho.

I will get a few screen caps to chat about from that episode. I do not mean to HiJack your thread Jet. Just let me know if you want me to start another thread. If you think about it, if it is originally a screwdriver and the bit locks in, the slide part that you pull back would work great to expose the bit to put the screw on and then let it spring back forward to keep the screw from slipping off of the bit. THink about how big the bullet is, almost exactly the size of a standard screw head.

I bet what we are seeing in thunder-birds is very close to what the Sonic looked like almost right out of the box. For how short that scene was I almost wonder if it was just a tool they had laying around on the set that they used for the scene?

Here is some food for thought (pics). This is Russ's replica, if you unscrew the top bullet/halo look how well it fits the bill and it is not even supposed to be a real screwdriver. I am going to try to machine the inside of how I think this works this weekend.

 

[Jet Beetle]

Not a hi-jack at all. In fact all of this info coming in will help us know if what we have found is truly what was used - I greatly appreciate all info.

The activators we are looking at looking at are rare and pretty expensive. They have perfect body match but if this thing works differently on film then I can't deny the new information.

 

[Jamanticus]

Wow, this has got me feeling all excited.

I wish I were around these forums back when everyone was figuring out what parts Obi-Wan's lightsaber in Star Wars was made out of, but this is just as good- same sort of thing, and from another show I love

 

[Straker]

Ok I noticed a couple interesting things. I watched the part in "Robot" about 30 times just now where Tom Baker inserts the halo and turns the Sonic Screwdriver into the "Sonic Lance"

1. The bullet is attached (or at least slid onto) the wire/rod that holds the halo to the sonic body. It is not part of the handle as I have always thought. You can see it pretty clearly in the scene (I am trying to get a screen cap where it is clear right now. I will post it as soon as I get a good one)
2. The halo pin is about the size of a small drill bit, TB slides the wire/rod and bullet into the top and then very deliberately holds the top shaft and twists the thick part of the handle about 1/4 turn counter clockwise to lock the halo pin into place. I am wondering if on the origenal object you don't twist the handle clockwise to loosen (it pushes a chuck forward loosening the jaws) , inset a bit of some sort, then twist it counter clockwise to tighten (pulls the jaws of a chuck back and tightens around the bit).
3. I think there is an outer grip handle and an end cap on the prop in that scene from thunder-birds that is gone by the time we get a good look at it in DrWho.

I will get a few screen caps to chat about from that episode. I do not mean to HiJack your thread Jet. Just let me know if you want me to start another thread. If you think about it, if it is originally a screwdriver and the bit locks in, the slide part that you pull back would work great to expose the bit to put the screw on and then let it spring back forward to keep the screw from slipping off of the bit

I bet what we are seeing in thunder-birds is very close to what the Sonic looked like almost right out of the box. For how short that scene was I almost wonder if it was just a tool they had laying around on the set that they used for the scene?

That's not a bad theory, but again, you have to keep in mind the acting and the fact that Tom has to pretend to do things with the device. let me explain with your points:

1. The bullet is attached (or at least slid onto) the wire/rod that holds the halo to the sonic body. It is not part of the handle as I have always thought. You can see it pretty clearly in the scene
   
   
   
   and it wouldn't be a art of the handle as it would have to be built separately and then attached. I don't know of any screwdriver that has a halo and emitter bullet with the drill bits they come with. How it is attached can be varied depending on what the director requires the prop to do from scene to scene. Remember, later on we see a telescoping head and that set up looks nothing like the pin/rod set up in that scene at all and would have had to be built special for that one shot.
   
   
   
2. The halo pin is about the size of a small drill bit, TB slides the wire/rod and bullet into the top and then very deliberately holds the top shaft and twists the thick part of the handle about 1/4 turn counter clockwise to lock the halo pin into place. I am wondering if on the original object you don't twist the handle clockwise to loosen (it pushes a chuck forward loosening the jaws) , inset a bit of some sort, then twist it counter clockwise to tighten (pulls the jaws of a chuck back and tightens around the bit).
   
   
   
   A screw or a spring tension pin for speaker jack in a sound studio is about the size of a screw or a drill bit as well. That 1/4 turn could be TB deliberately pretending to set the sonic to the "lance" function since he is being payed to pretend the device is genuine. How an actor chooses to pretend to use a prop doesn't necessarily mean that it has anything to do with it's construction. Look at David Tennant and the modern series sonic and the infamous "twist the end cap" routine he does. Also, keep in mind that aside from sliding up and down, the only movement is the twisting of the activator sleeve. That rather limits the things an actor can do while pretending to use the sonic.
   
   
   
3. I think there is an outer grip handle and an end cap on the prop in that scene from thunder-birds that is gone by the time we get a good look at it in DrWho.
   
   
   
   actually aside from a possible grip tape covering the end cap and grip are the same. remember, just because you don't see the diagonal cut and 30 degree cut in the end cap doesn't mean they aren't there. It's possible the the end cap was modded to have that 30 degree cut and set screw or that the director thought those details in the prop looked ugly and had them facing away from the camera.

in all, it's not a bad theory but theres a few problems that would need to be addressed. One is that those auto screwdrivers of the time period don't match up in looks or mechanics at all. IF, the head of the sonic screwdriver attached to the shaft that would turn the screw, then whenever Tom Baker pulled the sleeve down, the head would spin. Yes, there is mention that there may have been a lever to change the direction of the spin but, if that was removed, all it would do is keep you from changing the direction of the spin, not remove the mechanics that would turn the screw and for that the whole device would have had to have been gutted and simple mechanics would have to have been installed which means the device would not function in any way to hold a screw or drill bit anymore as they would have to have been replaced.

Second is that just because it is being used as a screwdriver for a shot, doesn't mean it has to originally be one. The thing could have been a ratcheting stainless steel sexual aid for all we know.

 

[electric jay]

Honest to God, I always thought it looked like a dentist's drill.

 

[phez]

One is that those auto screwdrivers of the time period don't match up in looks or mechanics at all.

I do not think it is a mechanical screw driver at all. I think it is a regular screw driver with a spring loaded sleeve to to keep the screw from popping off the bit when you screw it in. The patents for those spring loaded sleeves go all the way back to 1945.

Pulling the sleeve back would do nothing as it's only use is to hold a screw in place. To release the head you would twist the the handle. I am going to play through the scene in Genisis of the Daleks and see if he does a coincidental twisting of the handle before the emitter is extended. That scene would still look exactly the way it does if the sonic works the way I think. The part that holds the bit would be retracted into the tube under the bullet. You cold pull that wire/rod as far in or out as you want and the bullet would slide on it.

Second is that just because it is being used as a screwdriver for a shot, doesn't mean it has to originally be one. The thing could have been a ratcheting stainless steel sexual aid for all we know.

I do agree with you on this totally. But what is more likely to be sitting around a sound stage. Well actually it was the 70's wasn't it, I withdraw my statement

 

[Straker]

I do not think it is a mechanical screw driver at all. I think it is a regular screw driver with a spring loaded sleeve to to keep the screw from popping off the bit when you screw it in. The patents for those spring loaded sleeves go all the way back to 1945.

Pulling the sleeve back would do nothing as it's only use is to hold a screw in place. To release the head you would twist the the handle. I am going to play through the scene in Genisis of the Daleks and see if he does a coincidental twisting of the handle before the emitter is extended. That scene would still look exactly the way it does if the sonic works the way I think. The part that holds the bit would be retracted into the tube under the bullet. You cold pull that wire/rod as far in or out as you want and the bullet would slide on it.





I do agree with you on this totally. But what is more likely to be sitting around a sound stage. Well actually it was the 70's wasn't it, I withdraw my statement

LOL! :lol

Anyway I think you have a better idea about the sleeve guided screwdriver there. That would seem more likely. A lot of people might still question the slash and the odd shaped sleeve that would seem like it should do more, but the slash may have been added during the Doctor Who series cause it looks neat, and the sleeve may have attachments (similar to the hand grips of a chiropractic activator) that can be put on it. I still like that idea best for the screwdriver theory.

Keep in mind though, you had asked what would likely be laying around a sound stage, and I think that may be the problem here. The question really should be, what would be laying around a prop studio's work shop? remember, if you make hand props you may not necessarily wait for someone to ask you to make a prop, you may just make them in your spare time and when someone asks for something like a screwdriver, you may say, "I have just the thing" and hand them a scratch built device. it saves on time that way and that especially goes for limited production times. Just because you're being paid to make props doesn't mean you make them only when you're being paid.

 

[phez]

Huh, I did not think the white paint stripe showed up until the Davidson years? :confused

It looks like it is on the unpainted halo Sonic from Invasion of Time (chiped up a bit).
This is likely common knowledge that I missed reading about somewhere.

 

[Jack T Chance]

Huh, I did not think the white paint stripe showed up until the Davidson years? :confused

It looks like it is on the unpainted halo Sonic from Invasion of Time (chiped up a bit).
This is likely common knowledge that I missed reading about somewhere.

Interesting! But even more important, look at the EMITTER HEAD! Besides the brass ring (or "halo" as some prefer to call it) it also appears that the bullet is brass, as well! And the magnet also looks like it could be a slightly different color than the black we're used to! It might even be a dark red! :confused

 

[phez]

That is the Davidson Sonic (red tip, white stripe, brass halo). I always thought that the Davidson was the Baker repainted but it looks like there were two Sonics and both were around since at least "Invasion of Time"

 

[Jack T Chance]

That is the Davidson Sonic (red tip, white stripe, brass halo). I always thought that the Davidson was the Baker repainted but it looks like there were two Sonics and both were around since at least "Invasion of Time"

Except for the fact that the screen shot you've posted seems to ME to show the silver bullet and the red/maroon emitter ring, with the black magnet. Closeups from the scene where it's destroyed also showed the red ring, If I Remember Correctly.

 

[phez]

Except for the fact that the screen shot you've posted seems to ME to show the silver bullet and the red/maroon emitter ring, with the black magnet. Closeups from the scene where it's destroyed also showed the red ring, If I Remember Correctly.

You might be right, I may be seeing that wrong. I have watched most of the Baker series in fast forward over a period of four hours, that can not be good :lol