The Ultimate Luke ANH Graflex Research & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter IronDestinyProps
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- anh graflex lightsaber
I am almost certain it is man. I have yet to see that style rivet on ANY true folmer variant. There are some every shiny Incs out there as well. My ANH uses a very shiny clean Inc. top with that style rivet.
Are you arguing that _only_ on this particular picture it is an Inc top? Or on all of them ?
I understand if you choose to believe that the pictures few people already posted of Folmer flashes with this kind of rivet are fake, that's OK and can't be proven either way.
But I don't understand how you explain the straight pins on an Inc top and the type of bunny ears:
I understand if you choose to believe that the pictures few people already posted of Folmer flashes with this kind of rivet are fake, that's OK and can't be proven either way.
But I don't understand how you explain the straight pins on an Inc top and the type of bunny ears:
The pins are not exactly easily interchangeable without a proper tool. If you ever tried to remove some with pillars you should know they become pretty messed up in the process.
Diego86
Well-Known Member
Before, among others, this photo was posted as a support to the reflective beer tab theory on folmer flashes.. It's wrong. Those shown are 2 INCs and if you read the original topic (Graflex Facts and Variations) this photo is used as a visual reference while talking about Red Buttons. Therefore, the red writing "Early Folmer Graflex (no patent #)" refers - rightly - to the thin knurling red button only, and not to the whole flash.
No telling really as far as the screen used piece. But as far as this community goes, anyone who will claim to have “a folmer top with a machined rivet” could more than easily interchange parts and have a nearly mint Inc with folmer parts . Same as if you purchase from someone who claims it’s a “folmer top” yet it has that machined rivet. People have swapped parts in all these flexes over the years since it was found to be the lightsaber, to the nicer versions of what they want for their own builds.
And as far as the lever conversation goes, I have also yet to see any “large rivet” Folmer levers that have a rivet that clearly protrudes from the lever face like an Inc lever rivet. It would appear in the reference photos that the lever rivet protrudes from the lever just like an Inc does. Folmer lever rivets no matter the size still give that hammered over darker appearance, where as the Inc lever rivet is machined, and protrudes from the lever face. There are also plenty of shiny inc levers as well.
Diego86
Well-Known Member
Clearly I don't know this, and I can't know. I speak for what I see.
Very frankly, I can't even tell you that those I see are straight or stepped pins, or say with certainty that bunny ears has 4 internal holes or not.
Those references are too blurry for me.
Diego86
Well-Known Member
I respect what you see, that's what I think I see too. But, said that, nothing changes. It takes 5 minutes to remove the bunny ears from a top. 10 if you take care not to ruin anything.
I agree with the fact that parts were switched around to me this looks like an early inc top that had the bunny ears and glass eye swapped with folmer variant, at least that’s what I see in the rivet in this picture
Remember that Roger Christian found a box full of them in his favourite photography shop. A box lying there for decades perhaps. Anybody could have easily played or looked at it. Or when choosing the best looking parts, they could have easily been interchanged by Roger himself. Why not? Maybe it had some rust spots. Maybe some scratches. If you have 8 of them in front of you and you take them apart, the could have been interchanged by coincidence. Do you think he could tell the difference? Do you think he'd care? No way!
Drew Baker
Sr Member
Two thoughts:
1 - If your collection was curated using the belief that Folmers have dull rivets, which lead to only gathering dull-riveted Folmers, your photos are just repeating your bias. That would prove little more than "dull-riveted Folmers exist."
2 - For a shiny machined rivet to be absolutely diagnostic as a feature of an Inc-era flash, it's not enough that the ANH flash have had its pins, ears, and eye replaced, but also every other Folmer flash found by the community that has that finish rivet with correct ears and smooth pins must also have had those parts replaced. I suspect the number of such flashes would make that argument -- which is already pleading special circumstances -- ridiculous. To that end, a broad survey of Folmer rivets could provide useful data.
With a cursory look, my Folmer flashes seem to be roughly 2:1 flat to machined, with some of the flat rivets being shiny while the majority are dull. My studio is a shambles now, however, so photographs will have to wait.
AnubisGuard
Master Member
My pat. Folmer rivet is dull, fwtw.
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