The RED 5 Pictures Debacle - THE TRUTH AT LAST

[Watson]

I am posting this information that is available for all to see at RI but I feel it needed to be posted here since this is where it got started. The thread was started by Kurt Kuhn and is titled - A Humble Apology to Jason Eaton.

I am only going to show the facts and ask that everyone please keep this on topic.

In the following quoted information Adama at the RI is Moffeaton here.

Now to finally resolve this issue about who did what, Kurt has admitted that Jason Eaton did not give him the pictures and that he lied. Why he lied I dont know but the fact is he has admitted all on his own that he did. Jason suffered untold damage due this and I hope that this will clear his name in the eyes of his accusers.

Thread at the RI
http://www.resinilluminati.com/showthread.php?t=6994

Kurt's Posts at RI:
To my associate and friend... for the actions I took, and trust I broke through my very apparent, and admitted lie.... I humbly apologize. You were a casualty of my own crusade and it was wrong ... because you WERE NOT involved, yet it caused people to believe wrongly that you were.

This is not to bring back a healing wound to the hobby, but to mend one. I do not expect for Jason to trust me anytime soon, but at least this will let everyone know that he had no involvement with the release of the Verta RED 5 photos. That was all upon my own doings and judgments. Mike Verta, and everyone needs to know that JASON IS INNOCENT! I (Kurt Kuhn) am the ONLY guilty party in the RED 5 Photos matter.

Jason... you know I respect what you have done for the community, and your world class artwork. I am pleased we are able to at least dicuss a possible future that is evolving from the ashes of past mistakes. You are a good man... and I have always been honored to know you.

Once again... I apologize.

I hope we may move forward together into the great future that awaits us all.

To recap today's communications that led up to this public apology, and per request verbatim, here is what was stated between Jason and myself ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhn Global
Hi Jason...

I am interested in repairing our relationship from the crud that has ensued in the recent past. I know you to be a good man.. and you certainly are a great artist. I would enjoy a conversation with you if you would be up for it?

For what it is worth... I think highly of you and apologize for any problems I may have caused you. I believe life is too short to be away from people I like. If you feel differently... I am ok with that as you have every right. I will still praise you and your work regardless.

I truly hope we can mend things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adama
Hi Kurt, you broke a trust and damaged my hobby, my professional relationships, and my trust in people.

Tell you what - tell me, and everyone publicly on the RPF, and RI who you got those unique Verta Red 5 pics from, and that I had NOTHING to do with your leaking them, and I will consider listening to what you have to say. Also please email your explanation/my exoneration to Mike Verta and carbon copy me, please.

You say you truly want to mend fences? Prove it by clearing my name the way you should have back then.

Take care, Jason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhn Global
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly Jason. Sorry about this long response... but it tells everything. Maybe you could assist me with the public statement that should be posted. Here is everything that I know... including admition of my guilt once again.

I admit to breaking your trust... even from the standpoint I took on the subject. And I admit lying about using the scanned in posters that you gave Scott. While I really did have them scanned from some killer machinery at Kinkos, they were no match to your original (or the original digitals) I was sent. I color corrected what original I had using Photoshop auto correct, then added more red and green in to get what I eventually posted, then I lied and stated it came from the digital scans of the posters Scott gave me so that I could post them. I knew I would not get away with it, but I did it anyway. I even admitted my lie publically on the RPF in the RED 5 thread.

This is where it gets interesting for me... and you.

I found out (after the posting) that Matt Meyer had been given these from Mike himself, but only FOUR photos of RED5. I had, and have posted a total of EIGHT between RED 1 and 5 from those very files of Verta's. I show in my logs that I received SEVEN of those photos from you entitled Red 5 A through RED 5 G. I have no other logs from the FTP showing incoming RED 5 reference. Now... I have EIGHT. And I have no idea how that is so. Nobody approached me about this reference. I approached you for it, but I still did not receive more than SEVEN from you.

Now... what is even more strange to me is that really did do what I stated above to get them looking like they were. Yet Verta states it cannot be done. I sent the same files to Bob and another friend (who is a digital expert as Verts is stated as being) and told Bob what I did... he replicated it. Then I left my other friend to his own... and HE duplicated it. Yet Verta says it is impossible. I even sent them to Matt.... and HE did it too! That is four people working off the same files...doing the same thing, and getting the same result.... but it can't be done? Something is definitely wrong with that statement.

In the photos I used... the stands are visible, (clearly covered rather) but visible... especially after correction.

So... as the truth is stated once again, yes... YOU had nothing to do with ANY of it since it was MY doing. And I am STILL left with the mystery of WHERE the photos came from IF they were not the same ones you sent. And for that matter... where did the ones you sent me go if that is not them? And... how do I have EIGHT?

I have not solved that mystery, nor have I had anyone try to help me figure it out. I have simply been accused of sharing what i apparantly pulled out of my rear! LOLOL.

So... I would be happy to come forward with the truth that you had nothing to do with it. I have always stated that you had nothing to do with it simply because you cannot control me and what I do. I told Mike this. He asked where I got the photos... I explained exactly what I am telling you now... and all he cared about was who I got them through. You were the only person I knew I got them through besides Scott...which I admitted to as well.

Bottom line... I am willing to again come forward and state what I know... and have proof of. But there is still a mystery that I could use help with in clearing this mess up.

• I recevied 7 photos from you
• After seeing the posters I noticed and obvious difference in color between them and the digital files... and even spoke to you about it.
• I re-colored the photos myself
• I somehow ended up with 8 of Verta's photos before posting
• I posted the 8 plus others and the world exploded
• Matt was then found to have 4 of Red 5 alone.
• Matt gets accused of giving me the photos, but he only had 4, plus there is no log showing he ever uploaded files of this subject.
• Mike calls me, and I explain what happened.
• Mike refuses to believe me and wants me to name either you or Matt... nobody else. Just one name.
• I named you because that is all I know as the truth, but explained again what I did.
• Then everything gets blown out further by someone accusing Mike of using someone elses work and claiming it as his.
• Mike shuts down from any kind of discussion.

I do not deny it was my fault, nor do I cliam you had anything to do with my actions. I broke your trust in that I used what I thought were the photos I got from you. Now I don't know if they are or not due to my own mystery.

People continue to send me reference of soooo many things.... some by name, some stating they wish to be annonymous. Honestly, while I still believe that reference is important, the art is what is more important. And THAT is what the world is looking at on MMM.... they don't go near the reference, well... other than people that fequest the boards (which is a very small nitch I have found out with MMM). That pleases me to no end.

I know we are all tired. I have lied once in all of this... and I will not do so again. I want to correct the wrongs of my actions, but know that some may not accept what I state as truth. Like a polititian, once a lie is found... the public never believes them again. And because I know political ways, I also know that every political figure starts out wanting the best for those he represents. Then they are faced with stepping over lines to get what they are supposed to for their constuants. I stepped over that line.... and I pay for it everyday. My belief system is clearly different from some in the community. I don't believe you are one of tose that think differently than I, but one that got caught in my sticky web during my crusade. And you were knocked around in the process by those trying to truly get to me.

Those few people angered were so caught up in their anger that common sense went out the window and accusations were everywhere. I think we are past that now and might get to what is true.

I do apologize Jason. Very humbly at that. I am not certain what to state other than apology that people would listen to... especially Verta.

I hope we can keep channels open. I will go public when we have a truthful answer that can be accpeted.

No matter what comes of this Jason... I will always appreciate what you have done for this community, and you great art works. My hope is that we may go forward together... making NEW ties and roads that are successful for us all. On the road we all deserve to be on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adama
Hi Kurt, go ahead and just literally copy/paste everything we've said today, verbatim. That's pretty easy for the both of us I'd imagine, lol! I'm first and foremost interested in clearing my name. I don't think anyone can fault me for that.

I want all communication for now to be completely transparent and open, in the forum of our peers. I just do not trust you yet to a phone conversation or email string.

That is how you rebuild trust. By being completely transparent.

Also please make CRYSTAL clear that I did NOT share the modified unique Verta pics with you. The last thing I had shared with you was from MAY of that year, correct? That's the most important thing here - you lied to Mike Verta that I was the one who gave those unique photos to you. I did not.

Take care, Jason

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhn Global
I completely understand.

Once thing though.... I never told Mike you gave me the unique photos.... I only told him I used the ones I received from you in May. It was Mike that stated it otherwise. Like I stated... all I did was modify the May photos myself.

Where would you like me to copy this to on the RPF? We have Forum Magnum here.

I am glad we at least have an open channel about the future Jason. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adama
You don't need to do the RPF - just here and an email to Verta would probably be enough. I kind of doubt it's going to impact things, but it's the principle of the matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhn Global
You got it.

 

[Watson]

Part Two:

#2
Originally Posted by adama
Well, I do not know if this will change anything, but thank you for clearing my name. It's nice to see.


Thank you Jason. You are a great man... and I am looking forward to new beginnings .... and a killer future for us all!

#3
Michael.... to answer your interview question... no I have not changed my answer nor position on anything.

LOLOLOL.... classic... It would sooooo do people well to read statements as they are typed and NOT read what they want into them.

I am guilty of doing these things myself.

I have never changed my position. I have always stated the same thing (go to the RPF and READ what I stated back then). What I care about is what is to come. Exactly what I stated is exactly what happened... and what I stated back then. Jason was always innocent of what he was being accused of... and I stated that. People just did not READ my statements because they were angry. And thus... the casualty. EVERYONE who did not read condemnded him.... and of course me for naming him as the original source... which he remains, but NOT with Mike stated them as being. And because I did'nt go back to the RPF to read the poo flinging... I had assumed everyone was only upset at me. I was wrong. Jason became the casualty... along with me... and I feel badly about it.... thus my apology. Why so long? Losing friends? Any people that were truly my friends will always be. I simply don't play well with those who would do otherwise. Nor do I care to waste life trying. When I like someone... that really never changes for me though I may disagree with that person. Jason is a person I like.... and a person who has forwarded this hobby through his work and means. I was told that the hits that were being stated were not truly happening by someone who thought they would.... apparantly that was for that person only. So, now today I find out that Jason had some true hits.... and now (well after the fact) the air is clear. Honestly... and proven due to nobody reading my statements on the RPF regarding this matter.... even if I stated this 10 more times earlier, rather than the once,... it would have still been ignored... and more attacks would have ensued in the form of innocent questions (like what I am receiving now)... or just plain outward BS.... like what I am receiving now.

The persecution of everyone was run by hatred... not truth. What I am NOT going to do is allow this successful exchange of understanding toward a better future turn into another poo flinging fest.... so this is my last response here.

Bottom line... peace has to start somewhere.... and truth was already out there... but unread due to anger. So now we are on the right road.... for recovery and success with each other. I invite all who wish to be on that road to join in. And all who wish to tear that road apart... to continue on their own.... like some still chose to do with their anger and hatred. Which are you?

Jason is a good man.... and their is a long road ahead of us both,... but at least we have the courage to face our challenge now and be on the same road.

Bob... one thing I really suck at is lying. That is why I was caught in it nearly before I typed it! LOLOL... I just believed in what I was doing so badly, that I thought it worth a "feasable" lie to get what I wanted done. And I was wrong.... THERE IS NO LIE THAT IS FEASABLE OR RIGHT. It seems that the few times I have lied in my life I always learn the hard way.... and still down the line, as many humans do... will probably make the same rationalized error again somewhere down the line when it comes to passionate belief. And I will learn all over again... citing all of my mistakes and swearing to myself to never again let it happen. People don't often think well when dealing with personal beliefs. They con themselves into doinmg stupid things in the name of righteousness... then fall flat on their face when they realize they simply F'd up. Round and round and round. For some anyway.

But thank you for reading and clarifying so I didn't have to explain what I did yet again...

 

[moffeaton]

Heya Greg, thanks. I didn't exactly suffer untold damage, but my less than sterling rep got an even bigger hit that was undeserved. When I eff up, I cop to it and take my lumps, but yes, in this instance Kurt outright lied about me/my involvement with the pics he posted. It is nice to see him finally admit his lie. I hope this doesn't turn into a big stupid free for all. I made peace with whatever the fallout was from Kurt dragging my name/rep into his mess, and if trust is restored with regards to myself and Mike, that'd be wonderful, but I have no expectations. I can only control my actions, after all.

I'd also like to reiterate my stance on the whole picture "nazi" vs picture "socialist" dynamic. I'd love every rare and unpublished pic to be posted publicly, as big as day - I really would. But if someone shares material with someone else and wishes to have it kept "off the radar", that wish should be respected. Everyone has their reasons, and no one is entitled to anything.

So thanks to Kurt for finally doing what he should have done a long time ago, and setting the record straight.

 

[mverta]

This apology is irrelevant.

I told both Jason and Matt that we were cool; I can't hold either/both of them responsible without what I consider irrefutable proof, and I never felt I got it. I'm 99.9% sure who did it. That's not enough.

It is also irrelevant because the damage is done. I'm not putting myself in that position - which has very real consequences for friends and professional relationships - again. I have had many conversations with others who feel the same way; people who were likewise supportive and generous while being careful to honor trusts.


This apology is not the "right thing to do." This apology demonstrates just what lengths Kurt will go to in denying responsibility for lying to people - how much energy, time, headache and drama he's willing to put others through rather than have the ounce of courage, self-respect, and respect for others necessary to avoid such in the first place. The next time Kurt says he did or didn't do something, you're welcome to wait the 6 months or whatever to find out if it's the truth. Possibly.


On television, everything works out before the credits roll; in reality, some consequences are permanent. Kurt, by apologizing, does not clear anyone's name - I already did that. And he doesn't absolve himself of what he's done; that is a matter of history.

And you know what they say about learning from history.



_Mike

 

[moffeaton]

Excellent post, Mike.

I honestly feel the same way, and as I said before to you, I respect your decision. I think Kurt reaching out to me after a six month silence is more about the fact that he feels alone on his personal board without the company of many of the people who once hung in the same places as he did. I and many others were simply disgusted with his blatant betrayal of confidences, and a great private community literally dissolved overnight.

As a matter of principle, I wanted Kurt to publicly admit his lie, because it would make it that much easier in explaining to his friends why I wanted nothing at all to do with him. Who wants to waste time at Wonderfest treading on old ground like this when someone brings it up in conversation, or trying to stress a point with someone who thinks Kurt's word is gold? Not me, lol.

I don't seek or frankly want friendship from such a shady person. I think Kurt truly thinks we're suddenly going to be friends - but nothing has changed in my mind about him at all - he simply admitted the truth (and tried to pitch one hell of a sale - I don't give a crap about a mysterious 8th picture, what Matt Meyers did or didn't do, blah blah blah - so much "sequence of events" b.s nonsense). And the aftermath led me to close off a lot of what I was doing in helping others, and now I pretty much just build for myself and one patron only. Make a kit or two for Ma.K. fans - which has ZERO drama (probably because I don't speak Japanese and am a curiosity, lol). It's still extremely gratifying work and a blast as a hobby, even if it's lower profile.

While it was nice to see you post here Mike, I'm sorry that you had to waste your time.

 

[Jedi Dade]

---Decided not to throw a hat into this ring... and removed my previous post... enough has been said...

Jedi Dade

 

[DARKSIDE72]

All I'll say is that if Kurt Khun is involved in the SS hobby in ANY fashion with any of the projects I have a (future) hand in... I'll take what I know and have worked on for many a year, and bury my findings within the bowels of the planet before he rakes in any benefits from any of it.

 

[Boba Flint]

So Kurt has shown he can not be trusted and is more that willing frame someone else to take the heat.

Kurt, you can delete my account at the RI.

 

[Kuhn Global]

Thank you Greg for posting this here. This will be my only reading, and post in this thread.

You guys are certainly welcome to your opinion. I am certain crud will fly as long as it is posted.

I have stated the same words from the beginning that everyone chose not to read in the beginning of all this through anger. That is fine...

And Jaime... I don't really care to benefit from anyone who would rally such hatred to begin with... so be it. Have fun.

Mike.... YOU ARE WRONG... and continue to be so while people rally behind you. Jason has always been innocent of the jpegs you insist came from a "unique" batch. The jpegs I used were from a batch I received from Jason in May of 2008. For you to say that you KNOW who it was is ridiculous with the amount of fact stated in this whole affair. Yes... you are a valuable person to this Hobby, and because you have connection to the right material.... people rally around you.

MY ONLY LIE was in my initial statement that I used the digital scans and NOT the jpegs I received from Jason.

You guys kill me with overlooking fact for your own BS.

The reason it took so long for me to apologize to Jason is that I was told he suffered no damages by a person I believe in. I know I know.... I hear some of you now... BS!!! I wanted to bury the hatchet because I liked Jason. I then learned of his persecution... and also that it was stated back then in posts that I never read due to the anger and hatred.

I had thought of apologizing to you Mike.... but I am not going to... because you were the person who let your own monster out... and then persecute others for doing the same.

People bring up TRUST in this hobby like it means something. I know better than that ... and so do you. The minute someone comes out with something new... they call the next guy, make them promise not to show it..... 10 minutes later... THAT guy calls up someone and makes them promise not to show it..... ARRRGHH.... sound familiar? But NOBODY is guilty of that are they? Except for me. And the beauty of it all (aside from my lie stated above) what I showed.... I got on my own...without agreement.

We had a group of folks that we had cached a whole bunch of reference between.... THAT has stayed locked up. So if you believe I have show what YOU shared.... try again... because 100 others had it to give to me.... all because of the deals made behind the scenes. We have created our own hell in this hobby by being greedy. I still plan on ending that as I have stated with my very first posts in this hobby. And I will succeed.

I am so tired of this reference BS and the backstabbing, and lying behind it all. I will no longer waste my life with it from those needing convincing. People who wish to hinder me will only be hindering themselves.... and I WILL CONTINUE with my plans.

With a great group of model makers and artsists... we will make our own way... without the BS. Everyone os welcome.

Jason... no... I don't expect, nor wish friendship from you... as you just demonstrated what I was warned about you from the beginning.... full circle...interesting. BTW... The Resin Illuminati is not MY little board... it is OUR board... an amazing group of artists and participants.

Now... this is over. ALL HAS BEEN STATED. It is clear who doesn't wish to be associated any longer. I am fine with that and wish you all the best of success in your futures.

 

[moffeaton]

Hey Boba Flint, don't delete your RI account... there are really good people there, a lot of whom I consider friends. Don't let this realization of what really happened ruin the RI completely.

Just know the lay of the land, and who not to trust, and you can really enjoy yourself.

 

[REL]

The reason it took so long for me to apologize to Jason is that I was told he suffered no damages by a person I believe in. I know I know.... I hear some of you now... BS!!!

Holy crap I don't want to be involved in this, I've had enough drama going on lately, and I just don't care to participate in it anymore; but something needs to be said to be completely fair.

I don't know if Kurt is speaking of me in the quote above, but I did tell him the whole reference thing had blown over when speaking with him on the phone a few times, because I thought it had at the time, no one was talking about it anymore, and that there was animosity towards him for other reasons.

So that's not BS on his part.

 

[moffeaton]

Kurt, there is still a peace and I am happy to live and let live. But you'd have to think I was a fool if I was to just flat out trust you again, right? Am I being unrealistic? Did you really think we were going to be best chums again? All I promised was that I would listen to you and give you the respectful chance to clear the air. And I thanked you for doing so.

I think you don't like it when things don't go your way, and I bet that doesn't happen very often - you're actually very blessed and lucky to have the freedom and opportunities that your wealth affords. But I'm sorry to be so blunt and spell it out - I'm not beholden to you, you can't buy me, and I can make my own decisions.

I still very much thank you for starting any of this. But if you think a simple half-dozen posts that include a hard-to-follow story means everything is 100% back to normal, you're being unfairly unrealistic. You lied and showed a shocking lack of honor and a massive betrayal of trust from the Verta pics to all of that SR forum material you posted publicly that we all had promised would stay "in the family" per the wishes of all of those VFX artists that now won't give ANYONE the time of day. Your fault for ultimately being the one to post them on the open waters of the internet. Our collective fault for trusting you of course, but dude - you have to see the cause and effect and your part in all of that crap, right?

Everyone has hurt feelings now - it sucks for everyone.

I truly am sorry to disappoint you.

 

[feek61]

I'm just not sure anyone other then those directly involved care. Is it nessisary to post this sort of thing publically? PM may be a better way to contact each other unless the intent is to start the whole thing over again. I for one don't want to see this sort of thing. Let's have some fun; shall we?


On another note, REL, I love your new signature, lol

 

[moffeaton]

Eeeh, Kurt wanted to (and approached me out of the blue), and it's nice to see your name cleared in public, ya know? I for one like to know who to trust and who not to trust in the hobby.

 

[ZOMBIEREPELLENT]

It's nice to see this brought back up and talked about in a civil manner. People really need to see how important it is to not break trusts on this board. There's a lot of members on forums that I consider to be close friends, in fact I have more close friends on forums than I do in person. It really sucks to see this stuff go down and make everyone hate each other.

 

[GKvfx]

I'm just not sure anyone other then those directly involved care. Is it neccesary to post this sort of thing publically? PM may be a better way to contact each other unless the intent is to start the whole thing over again. I for one don't want to see this sort of thing. Let's have some fun; shall we?

Well I certainly agree with feek61's last line here, but I think there is some benefit to this happening in the public eye.

All too often we (as a hobby) get caught up in what I call "entitlement wars".

- "I'm a fan. I want to build a model. Why can't I have some good photos?"

- "Why won't you share, I just want to build a model?"

- "What's wrong with sharing?"

....and so on. And it gets ugly. And camps form around the "haves" and "have nots". And it get uglier. It's happened innumerable times regarding TOS Galactica. It's happened with Star Wars props and costumes. Name a pop culture property and it's probably happened within those circles as well.

This incident, in it's entirety, is precisely why those that "have" are sometimes not as eager to share. Trusts get broken. Reputations get damaged. Hard feelings linger.

I think a summary of this thread should be mandatory reading the next time someone starts to bring the issue up. It is complicated. It's not fun. And it should be avoided at all costs. Hopefully we can all walk away with a little more insight into the issue now.

My 2 cents.......

Gene (who is going to shut up and build the damn model now)

 

[Nils]

Does anybody got good reference photos of RED5?:lol

 

[Eric Ladd]

Does anybody got good reference photos of RED5?:lol

Just go to the pics of the Red 5 build done for Kurt based on the leaked photos. http://www.resinilluminati.com/showt...?t=2775&page=7

Since this build was done using those photos as reference it is safe to say it is about as accurate as the originals.

 

[PHArchivist]

I have better pictures of the Death Star than anybody, and YOU can't have them...!

 

[PHArchivist]

(That is a "generic You")