The Marvels (2023)

[NeoRutty]

How about a trial of "no test screenings"... let's see the original vision!

Test screenings are pretty vital... until you screen what you're working from in front of people it's often hard to gauge how well it's playing. you can FEEL the room tune out when it gets boring... or when jokes aren't working... or where people are confused...

BUT, some studios have SO MANY test screenings, and give the audience cards, and then take the notes from the audience very seriously... problem is, so many people sitting in these screenings are mouth breathing morons, you don't WANT their opinions.

it just takes one no-mind to write "I dint get when the guy walks in why he dint have a dog. Movie needs more dogs. Dogs funny"

"Hey we got notes from our butt-f*^$ nowhere screening... we need more dogs"

What?

 

[batguy]

There's an old saying in the screenwriting world: Trust the audience when they tell you what's wrong. But don't trust their advice on how to fix it.

 

[Solo4114]

There's an old saying in the screenwriting world: Trust the audience when they tell you what's wrong. But don't trust their advice on how to fix it.

Looking at this forum over the years and the suggestions on things like "Here's how I'd cast and script Ghostbusters 3" proved that to me.

 

[CessnaDriver]

They're not. What fans want are classic comic-accurate stories. Now, they're at least talking about making the Silver Surfer female.

That's going to bomb huge, prediction right now, if it happens.

I always figured Captain Marvel WAS their female Silver Surfer, mega powered cosmic character. Silver Surfer is very close to my heart. Only the animated series 25 years ago seemed to get it.

 

[Cephus]

Disney's annual SEC filing proves what they are doing. In the section on potential risks, they say that their political and environmental agendas risk alienating audiences in all sectors. And we wonder why they are failing?

 

[janglesworthy]

Disney's annual SEC filing proves what they are doing. In the section on potential risks, they say that their political and environmental agendas risk alienating audiences in all sectors. And we wonder why they are failing?

are you referencing what they cover in this article? something like 190 billion loss in 1 year?

 

[Captain Dunsel]

$196 Billion loss over the course of one year…??

Wow

 

[Cephus]

are you referencing what they cover in this article? something like 190 billion loss in 1 year?

Actually, here's the relevant part of the SEC filing, linked here. In particular, it says "Further, consumers’ perceptions of our position on matters of public interest, including our efforts to achieve certain of our environmental and social goals, often differ widely and present risks to our reputation and brands. Consumer tastes and preferences impact, among other items, revenue from advertising sales (which are based in part on ratings for the programs in which advertisements air), affiliate fees, subscription fees, theatrical film receipts, the license of rights to other distributors, theme park admissions, hotel room charges and merchandise, food and beverage sales, sales of licensed consumer products or sales of our other consumer products and services."

If you admit that what you're doing risks your reputation and brands, then maybe you ought to stop doing it.

 

[blewis17]

$196 Billion loss over the course of one year…??

Wow

View attachment 1765431

That's a whole lot of churros!

 

[blewis17]

Actually, here's the relevant part of the SEC filing, linked here. In particular, it says "Further, consumers’ perceptions of our position on matters of public interest, including our efforts to achieve certain of our environmental and social goals, often differ widely and present risks to our reputation and brands. Consumer tastes and preferences impact, among other items, revenue from advertising sales (which are based in part on ratings for the programs in which advertisements air), affiliate fees, subscription fees, theatrical film receipts, the license of rights to other distributors, theme park admissions, hotel room charges and merchandise, food and beverage sales, sales of licensed consumer products or sales of our other consumer products and services."

If you admit that what you're doing risks your reputation and brands, then maybe you ought to stop doing it.

The minute you bring common sense into this Disney mess, you're gonna' go mental...

 

[CessnaDriver]

Disney's annual SEC filing proves what they are doing. In the section on potential risks, they say that their political and environmental agendas risk alienating audiences in all sectors. And we wonder why they are failing?

They must have forgot they work for the shareholders. They keep that nonsense up it will go even lower.

 

[janglesworthy]

so how long until apple buys them? That's the new conspiracy right?

 

[joberg]

The big problem right now is that Disney's reputation is tarnished on several fronts. One of the danger of having such reputation is that they could make a wonderful movie that would "bomb" at the box office because of said reputation.
The viewing public would not bother going to the theaters...maybe the streaming could save that movie...maybe.
When you're putting fast food films for so long and having back to back...to back failures

 

[Riceball]

What I think is happening and why we're still seeing the messaging in many of their productions is because many, if not all, of these projects were produced while the messaging was still a big part of what they likely thought was what audiences wanted at the time. But now that they realize that's not the case they'll likely be trying to change course, but that kind of shift takes time and it was too late for everything that was already well into production. So I think we'll see a change, but it's not going to be immediate and we won't see the change for a while yet as they rewrite all of the scripts they have currently, including the ones that are currently in production. In the meanwhile, they can't scrap everything they have planned for release, regardless if it has heavy handed messaging or not. Like with Snow White, they're probably going in to damage control mode and seeing how much they can rewrite or edit movies that are already in the can or nearly finished without having to completely redo the movie like they did with Solo.

 

[batguy]

What I think is happening and why we're still seeing the messaging in many of their productions is because many, if not all, of these projects were produced while the messaging was still a big part of what they likely thought was what audiences wanted at the time. But now that they realize that's not the case they'll likely be trying to change course, but that kind of shift takes time and it was too late for everything that was already well into production. So I think we'll see a change, but it's not going to be immediate and we won't see the change for a while yet as they rewrite all of the scripts they have currently, including the ones that are currently in production. In the meanwhile, they can't scrap everything they have planned for release, regardless if it has heavy handed messaging or not. Like with Snow White, they're probably going in to damage control mode and seeing how much they can rewrite or edit movies that are already in the can or nearly finished without having to completely redo the movie like they did with Solo.

IMO there probably won't be any serious change at Disney until a lot of people have been fired. That hasn't happened yet.

Like the political saying goes: "The people who get us out of these problems won't be the same ones who got us into them."

Iger, Kennedy, Feige . . . if they had what it takes to fix this mess then I think they would have been doing it already. Like, years ago. IMO they will probably just keep doing more of the same (with more clumsy tweaks) until they get removed in a shareholder revolt.


I suppose Trey Parker & Matt Stone's roasting might help knock the idea into their thick heads that Wokeness has been overdone. But that's not enough to fix things. Just making more crappy cookie-cutter movies with a bit less wokeness won't fix Disney's troubles. They need to prioritize creative quality in a bigger, deeper, structural way. And when it comes to executives I don't think that can be learned. These CEO types either recognize the importance of creativity or they don't. Bob Iger clearly does not.

 

[joberg]

 

[dascoyne]

Not all of the criticism of Disney is coming from folks who despise the company. I am as critical as anyone because I want to see Disney change, if it can. I don't give a damn about the company's internal politics, and I don't want to have to give a damn about their politics.

I watched that YouTube video last night and the most painful truth the guy told was that the creative forces that had the power to right this company have all been either fired or made to leave the company due to it's (hostile) internal culture. The folks that replaced them so far haven't demonstrated the breadth of vision of the past.

I remember when each MCU film was genuinely surprising and was something I never expected to see. I remember when every PIXAR film provoked a childhood memory or gave me something I never knew I needed.

The best output from MCU and PIXAR, at best, are passably formulaic, IMO. I can't say I've been genuinely surprised by anything in years from Disney, PIXAR, MCU or Lucasfilm. (... with the exception of Andor season 1.)

 

[Riceball]

IMO there probably won't be any serious change at Disney until a lot of people have been fired. That hasn't happened yet.

Like the political saying goes: "The people who get us out of these problems won't be the same ones who got us into them."

Iger, Kennedy, Feige . . . if they had what it takes to fix this mess then I think they would have been doing it already. Like, years ago. IMO they will probably just keep doing more of the same (with more clumsy tweaks) until they get removed in a shareholder revolt.


I suppose Trey Parker & Matt Stone's roasting might help knock the idea into their thick heads that Wokeness has been overdone. But that's not enough to fix things. Just making more crappy cookie-cutter movies with a bit less wokeness won't fix Disney's troubles. They need to prioritize creative quality in a bigger, deeper, structural way. And when it comes to executives I don't think that can be learned. These CEO types either recognize the importance of creativity or they don't. Bob Iger clearly does not.

I don't think that people necessarily need to be fired in order for changes to be made. All it takes is a directive/order from high up in the pecking order to say no more and things will start changing. But, as I said previously, it's going to take time. This isn't the kind of thing that you'll see changed overnight. It's going to take them time to first figure out what they want changed and to what degree, then it's going to take time for the changes to take effect since there will already be projects near or ready for release that have been made under the previous model.

I'm certain that it's going to change because this messaging and this extreme DEI is costing the company money and Disney, like every other corporation out there, is in the business of making money. If one of the top execs of the studios doesn't want to make the changes, you can bet that Eiger will step in and order them to enact the changes, and it's Eiger who's insisting on no changes, then the board will almost certainly step in and fire him because it's hurting their share prices. So, one way or another, someone, at some level of the company, is going to enact changes if only to raise the bottom line.

 

[Cephus]

Not all of the criticism of Disney is coming from folks who despise the company. I am as critical as anyone because I want to see Disney change, if it can. I don't give a damn about the company's internal politics, and I don't want to have to give a damn about their politics.

I don't despise Disney, at least not until recently. I'm a stockholder, for crying out loud. I watched my stock go into the toilet because of this crap. My shelves are full of classic Disney movies. I want them to go back to making what they used to make. They just don't want to.

I watched that YouTube video last night and the most painful truth the guy told was that the creative forces that had the power to right this company have all been either fired or made to leave the company due to it's (hostile) internal culture. The folks that replaced them so far haven't demonstrated the breadth of vision of the past.

Their breadth is paper-thin. Here is the problem that I think they are having, at least in part, because this is the problem that a lot of companies are having. Because we, as a society, have allowed public schools to become left-wing indoctrination centers, where they teach more about politics than they do getting kids to read, that most kids come out as nice little socialists, who go marching off to work, if they can find anyone willing to take them and their stupid gender studies degrees, and they think that they get to push their beliefs on others, instead of doing what their employers want.

Over the last couple of weeks, I've been going through my daughters' rooms, since both of them live on the east coast now, and in my oldest daughter's room, I found homework from college, where she was required to write a paper on how gender is fluid and anyone can be anything they want to be. This wasn't in a sociology class or anything, this was in an English class. The social programming is a real thing. Luckily, she came out of it thinking it was just as stupid as I do, but the pressure to conform is extremely strong. Then they go out into the real world, where a lot of them just can't handle it, and they take those programmed biases right into the workplace.

Disney, and most other companies, have to hire these people and these people are like locusts. They move around and destroy everything they touch. It's not long until everything just goes to hell. This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better because we have an entire generation of these little socialists infesting everything.

I remember when each MCU film was genuinely surprising and was something I never expected to see. I remember when every PIXAR film provoked a childhood memory or gave me something I never knew I needed.

The best output from MCU and PIXAR, at best, are passably formulaic, IMO. I can't say I've been genuinely surprised by anything in years from Disney, PIXAR, MCU or Lucasfilm. (... with the exception of Andor season 1.)

Back then, they just wanted to entertain people. Now, they want to "educate" them. It's why these movies are all failing, because people don't want to be educated, they want to be entertained. We don't care about the message, we care about the product. Companies need to realize that they have made a massive mistake buying into any of this. It has harmed almost every company that has gone down that road.

I say good.

 

[pengbuzz]

Disney's annual SEC filing proves what they are doing. In the section on potential risks, they say that their political and environmental agendas risk alienating audiences in all sectors. And we wonder why they are failing?

I saw that on the news as well; so they're finally admitting what we knew all along, eh?