The Marvels (2023)

[Captain Dunsel]

In a cruel twist of fate for Marvel Studios… in a parallel world, somewhere in the vast Multi-Verse…Captain Marvel II—with Katee Sackhoff cast as the lead and with a completely different script than our universe’s The Marvels—is breaking box office records and becoming a true phenomenon…

I think it’s the same universe where Eric Stoltz played Marty McFly…

Of course, the RPF of this parallel world is still engaged in debates regarding the merits and quality of the film—but with the views of the individual members completely flipped when compared to our own world.

 

[VanPersie]

"Film" is not every film that comes out. I don't watch romcoms. I don't talk about the specifics of any individual romcom movie but I can still speak intelligently about the genre and evaluate the box office performance.

No then.

So you are interested in what Marvel does?

 

[batguy]

In a cruel twist of fate for Marvel Studios… in a parallel world, somewhere in the vast Multi-Verse…

Is that the world where Steven Seagal is the most respected dramatic actor and box-office draw of his generation?

 

[Cephus]

No then.

So you are interested in what Marvel does?

I'm interested in good movies. Marvel used to make them. Now, they don't. They used to make successful movies. Now, they don't. The Marvels is the biggest box office flop in the history of the MCU. It had the biggest 2nd week drop at 87% in the history of comic book movies.

When do we get back to good, successful movies? Because I'd love to see Marvel or DC get back to that. They're just headed the wrong way, demonstrably.

 

[Riceball]

I'm interested in good movies. Marvel used to make them. Now, they don't. They used to make successful movies. Now, they don't. The Marvels is the biggest box office flop in the history of the MCU. It had the biggest 2nd week drop at 87% in the history of comic book movies.

When do we get back to good, successful movies? Because I'd love to see Marvel or DC get back to that. They're just headed the wrong way, demonstrably.

Good and successful are 2 different things and don't necessarily go hand in hand. There have been films that many people consider to be good but were not that successful while there have been films that were big hits at the box office yet are not widely regarded as good films.

 

[VanPersie]

I'm interested in good movies. Marvel used to make them. Now, they don't. They used to make successful movies. Now, they don't. The Marvels is the biggest box office flop in the history of the MCU. It had the biggest 2nd week drop at 87% in the history of comic book movies.

When do we get back to good, successful movies? Because I'd love to see Marvel or DC get back to that. They're just headed the wrong way, demonstrably.

So you are interested in what Marvel does. At least we got there in the end.

Considering plenty felt Endgame was a good movie whilst you didn't, it's hardly going to be a question I can answer as to when "good" films will be back. Silly me though, I forgot that by your own admission, you're only spitting inarguable facts at us mere emotional beings...

I think i'm going to leave it there as like i've said plenty of times, this section of the site is fast becoming just multiple threads morphing into one endless stream
of the same old sentences being typed out day after day in a never ending cycle of tedium, so time for me to check out I think

 

[Cephus]

Good and successful are 2 different things and don't necessarily go hand in hand. There have been films that many people consider to be good but were not that successful while there have been films that were big hits at the box office yet are not widely regarded as good films.

But good without successful doesn't keep the movies getting made. Good is entirely subjective. People like movies that are widely regarded as complete garbage. Good means nothing to anyone but you.

 

[Cephus]

So you are interested in what Marvel does. At least we got there in the end.

Considering plenty felt Endgame was a good movie whilst you didn't, it's hardly going to be a question I can answer as to when "good" films will be back. Silly me though, I forgot that by your own admission, you're only spitting inarguable facts at us mere emotional beings...

I think i'm going to leave it there as like i've said plenty of times, this section of the site is fast becoming just multiple threads morphing into one endless stream
of the same old sentences being typed out day after day in a never ending cycle of tedium, so time for me to check out I think

No, I really didn't, mostly because there were just too many characters and it became a mish-mash of characters appearing on screen for a few seconds because there just wasn't time to have them do anything worthwhile. I can point to objective reasons why I like or don't like something. I'm not sitting here going "duh, I like it!"

That's just stupid.

 

[renaissance_man]

I really like Carol's new ship.
It's a shame Eaglemoss went out of business, I think it would have been cool to have models of the ships of the MCU.
The Milano, The Benetar, The Bowie, The Royal Talon Fighter, Grandmaster's Party Ship, Nova Corp. Fighter, Avengers Quinjet, Hellicarrier, Nowhere and now Carol's Ship to name just a few, there have been so many great examples.

 

[Tan Djarka]

Maybe it's just me, but does it strike you as odd that the number one movie in the world (per the commercials) is also a box office flop? Something is very, very wrong.

 

[blewis17]

In a cruel twist of fate for Marvel Studios… in a parallel world, somewhere in the vast Multi-Verse…Captain Marvel II—with Katee Sackhoff cast as the lead and with a completely different script than our universe’s The Marvels—is breaking box office records and becoming a true phenomenon…

View attachment 1763206

I think it’s the same universe where Eric Stoltz played Marty McFly…

View attachment 1763203

Of course, the RPF of this parallel world is still engaged in debates regarding the merits and quality of the film—but with the views of the individual members completely flipped when compared to our own world.

But remember, that parallel universe is ALSO the one where Tim Burton's Batman AND The Justice League's Ezra Miller Flash, both reside.
So...

 

[blewis17]

Apart from the liked it/ didn't like it / it was great/ it sucked/ a fun female empowerment superhero film / what the @$#%^& were they thinking type arguments, there's a very practical lesson(s) here somewhere. Just under 2 weeks in distribution, and with rapid decline, The Marvels has done:

Grosses​

DOMESTIC (40.2%)
$64,945,395
INTERNATIONAL (59.8%)
$96,556,717
WORLDWIDE
$161,502,112

Interesting that most of the $$$ is international.

Some have posted that those box office numbers are FAR AND AWAY from being a box office "bomb." I agree, not a bomb but definitely a BIG disappointment financially since he majority of modern film revenue comes in the first few weeks.

Let's extrapolate and (VERY GENEROUSLY) say that at the end of its theatrical run, it makes $250 million gross worldwide.
Studio gets ROUGHLY 50% of that overall cut (it's different for different countries, but for simplification purposes).
So they end up with $125 million USD NET revenue.

Production costs were estimated to be at LEAST $220 million, perhaps closer to $300 million USD.
Advertising DID happen, but the stars could not interview and make the press rounds during the Hollywood Actors' strike.
So, conservatively, I will "lock" The Marvels' total production cost in at $300 million to Marvel/Disney (yes, it was likely much more, but again for simplicity's sake). And we are not including whatever blu-ray or streaming revenue may come.

You spend $300 million, to get $125 million back.

EVEN IF the movie could have been made for HALF of our low-ball estimate ($300 million x 50% = $150 million), the studio still loses $$$.
EVEN IF the movie could have been made and advertised for $100 million, the studio would have only made $25 million profit.

There are a plethora of reasons why the film is under-performing. They have been reiterated here ad nauseum. But to me, some of the biggest problems involve the production costs. The market has changed; the Covid-19 pandemic was partly responsible, people's nice home theater setups are partly responsible, the cost of movie tickets and concessions are partly responsible, streaming is partly responsible, a plethora of OTHER entertainment sources is partly responsible, etc.

Going forward: How does ANY studio make the next blockbuster, on a diet? There's got to be a way, because this type of shoveling cash into the fire can't go on.

 

[Psab keel]

Applesauce!!

 

[joberg]

Every genre of movie (film) has a "Formula". We (the public) is expecting the "Formula" to make its appearance at any point during a genre.
First Blood? You're waiting for Stallone to say, do/don't do something/devising traps/firing various weapons/killing bad guys, etc...Got it!

StarWars? Same thing...a "Formula"...you get my drift

Same with this movie genre...the question is this one: is the "Formula" changing to a point where fans of the genre don't recognize or don't have any love for the story/characters?
Or...the "Formula" is just an exercise of ticking boxes? Making it, somewhat, like a déjà-vu and, as many people have said before, a "tired-and-not-so-great-movie-pushing-agenda"?

 

[cboath]

Apart from the liked it/ didn't like it / it was great/ it sucked/ a fun female empowerment superhero film / what the @$#%^& were they thinking type arguments, there's a very practical lesson(s) here somewhere. Just under 2 weeks in distribution, and with rapid decline, The Marvels has done:

Grosses​

DOMESTIC (40.2%)
$64,945,395
INTERNATIONAL (59.8%)
$96,556,717
WORLDWIDE
$161,502,112

Interesting that most of the $$$ is international.

Some have posted that those box office numbers are FAR AND AWAY from being a box office "bomb." I agree, not a bomb but definitely a BIG disappointment financially since he majority of modern film revenue comes in the first few weeks.

Let's extrapolate and (VERY GENEROUSLY) say that at the end of its theatrical run, it makes $250 million gross worldwide.
Studio gets ROUGHLY 50% of that overall cut (it's different for different countries, but for simplification purposes).
So they end up with $125 million USD NET revenue.

Production costs were estimated to be at LEAST $220 million, perhaps closer to $300 million USD.
Advertising DID happen, but the stars could not interview and make the press rounds during the Hollywood Actors' strike.
So, conservatively, I will "lock" The Marvels' total production cost in at $300 million to Marvel/Disney (yes, it was likely much more, but again for simplicity's sake). And we are not including whatever blu-ray or streaming revenue may come.

You spend $300 million, to get $125 million back.

EVEN IF the movie could have been made for HALF of our low-ball estimate ($300 million x 50% = $150 million), the studio still loses $$$.
EVEN IF the movie could have been made and advertised for $100 million, the studio would have only made $25 million profit.

There are a plethora of reasons why the film is under-performing. They have been reiterated here ad nauseum. But to me, some of the biggest problems involve the production costs. The market has changed; the Covid-19 pandemic was partly responsible, people's nice home theater setups are partly responsible, the cost of movie tickets and concessions are partly responsible, streaming is partly responsible, a plethora of OTHER entertainment sources is partly responsible, etc.

Going forward: How does ANY studio make the next blockbuster, on a diet? There's got to be a way, because this type of shoveling cash into the fire can't go on.

Why is it interesting the US is less than the rest of the world? The US makes up what? maybe 8% of worlds population?

 

[cboath]

Apart from the liked it/ didn't like it / it was great/ it sucked/ a fun female empowerment superhero film / what the @$#%^& were they thinking type arguments, there's a very practical lesson(s) here somewhere. Just under 2 weeks in distribution, and with rapid decline, The Marvels has done:

Grosses​

DOMESTIC (40.2%)
$64,945,395
INTERNATIONAL (59.8%)
$96,556,717
WORLDWIDE
$161,502,112

Interesting that most of the $$$ is international.

Some have posted that those box office numbers are FAR AND AWAY from being a box office "bomb." I agree, not a bomb but definitely a BIG disappointment financially since he majority of modern film revenue comes in the first few weeks.

Let's extrapolate and (VERY GENEROUSLY) say that at the end of its theatrical run, it makes $250 million gross worldwide.
Studio gets ROUGHLY 50% of that overall cut (it's different for different countries, but for simplification purposes).
So they end up with $125 million USD NET revenue.

Production costs were estimated to be at LEAST $220 million, perhaps closer to $300 million USD.
Advertising DID happen, but the stars could not interview and make the press rounds during the Hollywood Actors' strike.
So, conservatively, I will "lock" The Marvels' total production cost in at $300 million to Marvel/Disney (yes, it was likely much more, but again for simplicity's sake). And we are not including whatever blu-ray or streaming revenue may come.

You spend $300 million, to get $125 million back.

EVEN IF the movie could have been made for HALF of our low-ball estimate ($300 million x 50% = $150 million), the studio still loses $$$.
EVEN IF the movie could have been made and advertised for $100 million, the studio would have only made $25 million profit.

There are a plethora of reasons why the film is under-performing. They have been reiterated here ad nauseum. But to me, some of the biggest problems involve the production costs. The market has changed; the Covid-19 pandemic was partly responsible, people's nice home theater setups are partly responsible, the cost of movie tickets and concessions are partly responsible, streaming is partly responsible, a plethora of OTHER entertainment sources is partly responsible, etc.

Going forward: How does ANY studio make the next blockbuster, on a diet? There's got to be a way, because this type of shoveling cash into the fire can't go on.

And to be clear, using those numbers, it loses money in the theatrical run. It will still make money in licensing for products, licensing for network and pay tv airing, digital sales, DVD/BR sales, etc. So, financially, it's not a closed book after the theatrical run. It'll like still lose money, but not as much. And i intentionally left off streaming revenue since the jury is still out on if that actually adds to the bottom line or not.

 

[renaissance_man]

Iman Vellani perfectly sums it up "that's Bob Iger's problem".

All this back and forth over numbers that some people are obsessed with, as if they are shareholders in Disney.
Bottom line, did you enjoy the film....if you actually saw it and didn't just moan about the decline of a product you have "zero interest in" etc.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Apart from the liked it/ didn't like it / it was great/ it sucked/ a fun female empowerment superhero film / what the @$#%^& were they thinking type arguments, there's a very practical lesson(s) here somewhere. Just under 2 weeks in distribution, and with rapid decline, The Marvels has done:

Grosses​

DOMESTIC (40.2%)
$64,945,395
INTERNATIONAL (59.8%)
$96,556,717
WORLDWIDE
$161,502,112

Interesting that most of the $$$ is international.

Some have posted that those box office numbers are FAR AND AWAY from being a box office "bomb." I agree, not a bomb but definitely a BIG disappointment financially since he majority of modern film revenue comes in the first few weeks.

Let's extrapolate and (VERY GENEROUSLY) say that at the end of its theatrical run, it makes $250 million gross worldwide.
Studio gets ROUGHLY 50% of that overall cut (it's different for different countries, but for simplification purposes).
So they end up with $125 million USD NET revenue.

Production costs were estimated to be at LEAST $220 million, perhaps closer to $300 million USD.
Advertising DID happen, but the stars could not interview and make the press rounds during the Hollywood Actors' strike.
So, conservatively, I will "lock" The Marvels' total production cost in at $300 million to Marvel/Disney (yes, it was likely much more, but again for simplicity's sake). And we are not including whatever blu-ray or streaming revenue may come.

You spend $300 million, to get $125 million back.

EVEN IF the movie could have been made for HALF of our low-ball estimate ($300 million x 50% = $150 million), the studio still loses $$$.
EVEN IF the movie could have been made and advertised for $100 million, the studio would have only made $25 million profit.

There are a plethora of reasons why the film is under-performing. They have been reiterated here ad nauseum. But to me, some of the biggest problems involve the production costs. The market has changed; the Covid-19 pandemic was partly responsible, people's nice home theater setups are partly responsible, the cost of movie tickets and concessions are partly responsible, streaming is partly responsible, a plethora of OTHER entertainment sources is partly responsible, etc.

Going forward: How does ANY studio make the next blockbuster, on a diet? There's got to be a way, because this type of shoveling cash into the fire can't go on.

There is far too much “bloat” in movie budgets, today.

Consider that the most profitable Star Trek movie was also the cheapest to make: Star Trek II (at a cost of $11 million in 1981 / 1982 dollars, which is the equivalent of $37.2 million in today’s dollars).

It can be done but it will take far better management than the studios seem to have, right now.

The $200 - $300 million budgets that these franchise films are currently running on certainly are not seen on the screen.

 

[Cephus]

It is absolutely a bomb. With a production budget somewhere north of $300 million, plus marketing and an unknown amount for reshoots, it would have to bring in at least $700-800 million worldwide to just break even. It's not going to get remotely close.

 

[dascoyne]

The MCU used to be mostly about entitled characters who acquire humility.
Today it seems the MCU is about humble characters acquiring entitlement.