Stormtrooper Armor Lineage Chart

[PMTrooper]

oh
i thik i made a mistake
TM is not making mass production (yet)

and for the mfx products
i saw different types of helmets and armors out there
ordered at the same time
not sure how many types
maybe happend to the different sized molds
here are some helmet pics
MFX bucket

and for the lineage i have another idea
i wont set GINO on top (ok right under this LFL/AA production thing)
maybe you can write TE touched the inside of the original and sold the molds to GINO back in the year 19XX and these molds are still in same conditions

that sounds fair to everyone

 

[OldKen]

Gino, those 2 helmets you showed are WAY off. :unsure

cant everyone see that?



i guess you can unload that junk onto me and ill throw them away for you.

:angel

hey why dont you come to adventurecon this weekend here in knoxville TN (not far from ya) and you can bring them with you... so i can throw them away... (not love them like the child ive never had, because that would be wierd)

 

[HDPE]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Jun 21 2006, 11:42 PM) [snapback]1265444[/snapback]</div>

No one seems to care for rotj stuff besides me.

[/b]

You couldn't be more wrong about that

 

[rigormortis]

Very rough draft/still haven't broken TE down as Gino has suggested as I don't know how many versions of any of this armor has been done yet. Also don't know enough about TrooperMaster to merit inclusion?

Reason you see MFX/RT-MOD in same line but cut off from production generation is because of maybe 1 part(s) used from TE. But mostly original sculpts from what I've been informed.



Other interesting info dug up on lineage of the original suits from a very good MEPD.net thread:
ANH:
Standard helmet (TE #1)
"set for Stun' helmet (TE #2)
one stunt helmet in the LFL archives (5 holed version)
One Jason Joiner restored (BADLY should not have been done)
One ANH Hero in LFL archives (NOT Mark Hamill's helmet)
One ANH helmet (0wned by Mark Hamill Not sure of version)
Stop that ship sandtrooper helmet (screenused.com)
Move along helmet (bought at Christies auction)

Suits:
LFL has 6 suits and one IS Mark Hamills suit, as it is cut down and smaller for the chest and other parts. I found this one while at the archives with the other 5.

To date no suits/parts have surfaced.

ESB
2 helmets known to exist/sold via auction

One ESB head to toe suit sold at Christies auction house in 1998. Owner unknown/never identified

ROTJ

TE claims the suits made by Bermans and Nathans.. the molds, the original ROTJ molds found in shop in 1995 and sold off.

19 helmets and suits in LFL archives. TE found, handled and identified all of these for them while there this last year. Most of the helmets are white, maybe one or two beige ones. The armor is all white.

there are at least 3 known in the LA area.
There is one in NY
One in Maryland
There are 2-3 in England
one in the US at an undisclosed location
There are more but the ROTJ helmets change hands so often it is hard to keep track sometimes. I did know where 10-12 were once, but that was a while ago.

ROTJ Suits
There was one sold in Minnesota of all places in 1999 and never been seen since.

There is the one TE used to own at an undisclosed location.

2 full ROTJ suits at The Museum of the Moving Image here in the UK, and I.L.M. have one on a mannequin in their offices

One UK suit can be verified screen used, contrary to TE's claims. *Stormtrooper

*Rumor/Set Dressing?* Robert Watts production designer and 2nd unit director of ROTJ owns a head to toe suit in his collection and can be seen behind him on Empire of Dreams dvd.

*Research breakdown attributed to: Matt TE & John *Stormtrooper on MEPD


If anyone knows years or version #'s/similarities/differences, please let me know.

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(GINO @ Jun 22 2006, 12:19 AM) [snapback]1265422[/snapback]</div>

No one has molds (ANH/ROTJhelmet & ROTJ armor) that are closer in lineage to the film used items they were taken from than I do. The molds I have touched the insides of the real items. NO ONE ELSE can say that. [/b]

I am not willing to go into great detail on a public forum for obvious legal reasons (sorry :angel ) but that statement isn't exactly true I know of a person who has cast a ANH stormtrooper helmet. Although never mass produced there are moulds taken of this ANH stormtrooper helmet and I also know what helmet it came from. This helmet cast was not taken from TE helmets that the GINO/TE/GF etc ANH helmet all come from.

I am in no competition with anybody in the stormtrooper helmet world so I don't want harassed about information on these pieces I am only stating a fact I know these things do exist.

I am not saying these pieces are any better or even as good as what is already in the public domain I am purely stating that there are other pieces that come from an original source ANH helmet other than the already publicly well known piece TE once owned.

The helmet moulds I am talking about did touch the inside of a ANH helmet that is a fact. You will have to take my word on this if you don't believe me then I am sorry but I cannot expand on this any more at this time but hey ho :unsure

I know that when you see posts with 'I know this but I can't tell you how I know' drive people nuts but I really have good reason not to put this on a public forum so I apologise in advance.


Cheers Chris.

 

[Clutch]

I'll be at adventurecon with my gf armor and abs-80 helmet. Wh00T.

 

[Stormtrooper]

<div class='quotetop'>(rigormortis @ Jun 23 2006, 04:15 PM) [snapback]1266689[/snapback]</div>

ROTJ Suits
One in the UK is not screen used, but considered real since it is mostly identical to how the originals were assembled and strapped.

Robert Watts production designer and 2nd unit director of ROTJ owns a head to toe suit in his collection and can be seen behind him on Empire of Dreams dvd.
[/b]

Huh?. Please don't present this as fact... it is merely Matt's (sometimes deluded) opinion. I have detailed at length the evidence which points to my ROTJ Stormtrooper suit having been screenused. Matt doesn't want to admit that it was screenused, because he tried to buy the 'purchasing rights' from me before I bought it from the previous owner back in 2004. Then when I said that I was going to buy the costume myself he offerred me $27,000 plus one of hie Stormtrooper replica suits... plus a TIE pilot helmet and chest-box etc. etc.
When I declined his pitiful offer he suddenly decided that the ROTJ costume was an elaborate fake... then changed his mind and it was suddenly a promotional suit made by 20th Century Fox.
One of the best cases of SOUR GRAPES that I have ever seen... sorry for taking this off-topic but I'm concerned that gullible people are prepared to take Matt's opinion as proven fact. :angry

I have no doubt that if Matt had bought the costume from me back then, he'd post messages on a weekly basis about how he's the ONLY person on the RPF that has a full screen-used Stormtrooper costume, and how we should all fall at his feet and worship him.
Well, *I* am the only person on the RPF with an original Stormtrooper costume which is most likely screen-used, and until someone can give me proof that the costume was fabricated for promtional use, I will continue to believe so.

Oh, and I've no idea why Matt think that Robert Watts owns a Stormtrooper costume, just because it was pictured behind him in the Empire of Dreams documentary doesn't mean that it's in his ownership...
After all Denis Muren is pictured with a Speeder Bike behind him, Lorne Peterson has a Vader costume and Star Destroyer model behind him and Peter Mayhew has Chewbacca costume behind him etc. etc. simply a case of set dressing by the documentary makers

Trooperexpert's self-appointed title is becoming increasingly inappropriate IMO :lol

Cheers,
John

 

[Helmetman]

John

I'll second that brother.

TE called himself TE. No-one else did.

There are far more people out there with more knowledge on the subject. Unfortunately, some of these people have huge egos to accompany that knowledge.

Shame really.

Cheers
Steve

 

[rigormortis]

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Jun 23 2006, 05:02 PM) [snapback]1266727[/snapback]</div>

I know that when you see posts with 'I know this but I can't tell you how I know' drive people nuts but I really have good reason not to put this on a public forum so I apologise in advance.
Cheers Chris.
[/b]

No bothers there. Depending on the individual and their reputation in the community, I'm more than willing to accept their word and not get anyone in trouble. But Jez (Helmets of Star Wars) tracks lineage of known helms and this project basically details mass-produced suits (not one-offs that are most certainly out there).

I'm simply a big fan of history and collectors like to know the ancestry of their suits and find it interesting that parts may or may not have been cast off of the actual suits. For those who were fan-sculpts, it also celebrates the awesome detail and craftsmanship that has gone into them as well.

Nobody's out to get anyone in trouble here at all, and if I ever thought this chart would be used for such purposes, I wouldn't be doing it. So I purposely left out information that can be damaging - but most of the "facts as I know them" have been gained from public knowledge gained through simple research.

Hope that helps explain things.


<div class='quotetop'>(Stormtrooper @ Jun 23 2006, 07:18 PM) [snapback]1266806[/snapback]</div>

Huh?. Please don't present this as fact... it is merely Matt's (sometimes deluded) opinion. [/b]

John,

Agreed. I have modified TE's original opinion/claim per your statement, as I have no reason to doubt your word. Nothing is being presented as fact at this point - just doing initial research (what's out there and what's been said) and as they are verified, most of the rumors will hopefully be dispelled.

Personally, I thank you for your valued inputs. Without people willing to civally share their side of the story, this project wouldn't happen.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Great project rigormortis, good that someone had the will to do it after all the discussions on the helmet lineage :lol

Stormtrooper's suit is original, a number of people including Brandon, Andy G and myself spent a long time looking over it a few years back when he first got it. Its provenance is assured. "Trooper Expert's" was just annoyed that he missed out on it. His self-appointed board name is dafter than mine.

Cheers

Jez

 

[Apollo]

<div class='quotetop'>(Stormtrooper @ Jun 23 2006, 03:18 PM) [snapback]1266806[/snapback]</div>

Well, *I* am the only person on the RPF with an original Stormtrooper costume which is most likely screen-used,
[/b]

To quote a line from a Movie we all love, "There is another"

Like Voice in the crowd I know of one other board member here who has a full ROTJ Suit that is Screen-Used but he does not want it to be known.

I have been Collecting Screen-Used Pieces since 1975 and I can tell you that there is a LOT of pieces that will never see the light of day.

 

[rigormortis]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Jun 24 2006, 09:40 AM) [snapback]1267175[/snapback]</div>

Great project rigormortis, good that someone had the will to do it after all the discussions on the helmet lineage :lol
[/b]

Agreed, Jez - I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment but have always loved the charts on your site which made me want to try and do this. Thus far, it's been pretty civil.

Next chart will have Jason Joiner's "tour" suits added (I forgot about them from the UK's Blue Peter TV show) and I really forgot the Disney suits, which I recall someone here on the RPF produced for them. And TK-BIG (gotta celebrate the fact that he made suits for us big guys).

 

[rigormortis]

<div class='quotetop'>(apollo @ Jun 24 2006, 01:04 PM) [snapback]1267223[/snapback]</div>

To quote a line from a Movie we all love, "There is another"

Like Voice in the crowd I know of one other board member here who has a full ROTJ Suit that is Screen-Used but he does not want it to be known.
[/b]

Well, I'm not doing this to "out" collectors or armorers. Just trying to see what can be verified as still out there (geolocation like country or state is good enough for me). The rumor that LFL simply dumped/buried ROTJ suits out in the forest in CA has bothered me for years, but seeing how they 'cleaned up' the shoot locations in Tunesia, Buttercup Valley, and other sites leans my opinion that it may be possible that they may have indeed did that.

When I did the same type of project to try and document the remaining Pana-Sensor 3/4 scale X-Wings produced for LFL in '94-'95 for the Special Edition promos, it was difficult to even find out how many they actually produced, as the number ranged from 7-9. Some were destroyed, others went into private collectors hands, never to be heard of again. Luckily I was able to track them all down to at least North West US, etc. I can't 'prove' who owns some of them, but I have a really educated best guess that I didn't put on the list because it wouldn't be right to 'out' that collector. If they want it to be known, they will state it themselves. I just want to verify that it still exists.

And thanks to all once again for keeping this thread civil. :thumbsup

 

[The Manlet]

Whats the word on AFX kits i have never heard of them?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(GundamZeppelin @ Jun 24 2006, 07:40 PM) [snapback]1267353[/snapback]</div>

Whats the word on AFX kits i have never heard of them?
[/b]

AFX (Armor FX)... aren't those simply the well known FX armor?

 

[The Manlet]

Thats what i was thinking NHM

 

[Stormtrooper]

<div class='quotetop'>(apollo @ Jun 24 2006, 01:04 PM) [snapback]1267223[/snapback]</div>

I know of one other board member here who has a full ROTJ Suit that is Screen-Used but he does not want it to be known.
[/b]

Oooooo... *very* interesting. Is it one of the costumes already accounted for or is this one which was previously unknown?

If the mystery owner would like to contact me, I can assure that his anonymity will remain intact.
I have had the privelege of seeing some very exclusive collection of screen-used props, which remain out of the 'public eye' B)

Cheers,
John

 

[rigormortis]

More chart research:

Addition of Steve Johnson (Elstree Studio Moulds) ESB Fiberglass Armor (Oakley) cast from original
http://www.toysrgus.com/images-repli/cameron-armor.html

Cool page with Sansweet's Marco Armor (forerunner to the FX)
http://www.toysrgus.com/images-repli/marco-stormtrooper.html
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/imperialfanMarco.htm

AA/SDS - Contracted by John Mollo in '76 to produce 62 full suits *56 Stunt and 6 Hero for ANH
http://www.Rebelscum.com/stormtrooperhelmets.asp

BriarsArmor - original sculpt child-scaled armor

Hi-Impact armor added

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(rigormortis @ Jul 5 2006, 09:59 PM) [snapback]1274696[/snapback]</div>

More chart research:

Addition of Steve Johnson (Elstree Studio Moulds) ESB Fiberglass Armor (Oakley) cast from original
http://www.toysrgus.com/images-repli/cameron-armor.html

[/b]

Hi,

I think that armour of Steve Johnson is in fact ROTJ.

Cheers Chris.

 

[rigormortis]

Yup. Steve used the actual ROTJ moulds, but according to what I've researched thus far, he produced fiberglass armor that wasn't used in ROTJ and ended up in fan collections. I could be wrong until this has been verified true.

Even odder rumor, that he may have done the armor for the Don Post Stormtrooper statue?